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Post by Greekway on Nov 16, 2012 14:41:01 GMT -5
Romanians seeking rights for Vlachs ? is this a joke
Its like China seeking the rights of Philippine people in Greece .
Most important Vlachs are not Romanians
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Post by Greekway on Nov 16, 2012 14:42:38 GMT -5
There is small technical problem. More than 5M of todays Greeks are of Vlah decent. What do those Romanians want? Just like more than 20M of todays Romanians are of Slavic decent. They better STFU. I would have to agree with Pyrros here mostly ... Romanians have NOTHING to do with any Balkan Vlachs and yes the Romanians would be partially a Slavic people x2
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Post by amateurs on Nov 16, 2012 14:44:46 GMT -5
Instead of seeking out compensation from Romania my family focused on moving on with their lives and educating themselves and advancing in their careers... that is the type of people we are.... but here we have catcherintherye who accuses of being lazy and theives. He even tried to pass off all the blame on the Russians as if they are responsible. YES LETS BLAME THE RUSSIANS, WINK, WINK! Fact of the matter is there should have never needed to be compensation in the first place... wtf good is it when your family loses everything and is destitute and has to migrate to another country that is thousands of miles away? It is a little too late and too little to compensate people when you totally destroy their lives. Do peoples lives have a pricetag? This whole thread has turned political and has little to do with history. Rex doesn't want Aromanians to have any connections with Romanians because he himself is partially Vlach and doesn't like Romanians good enough to want to be linked with us. Fair enough. But, the connection between the Balkan Aromanians and the Romanians is ancient--that is, more than a thousand years back (excluding the little interaction there has been between the two people throughout the Middle Ages and later). Yes, most Romanians are partially Slavic (partially being a keyword). And most Slavs have mixed with the natives. And Greeks have mixed with Slavs, Armenians, and whatever else. Only Albanians are 100% pure if we look back the last 20,000 years (insert laughter here). As for the guy whose family wasn't compensated for what the Communists stole--I am sorry to hear that, but that doesn't really relate to this problem. If we were to discuss that, however, let me tell you that the EU in fact forced Romania to compensate everyone who could prove that they had been stolen: Romanians, Hungarians, Germans, Scandinavians and so on. If your family missed on anything, then it's most likely they either did not file any claims, or, they didn't have enough proof. Now, what Romania required is this: that Aromanians are recognized not for being Romanian, but for being a minority, something that Albania--at least officially--already does. So let's not this discussion turn into I-dislike-Romania because of this, or that. The Soviets enforced Communism on Romania and the Soviets decided the policy. Without the Soviets, Communism in Romania would not have been introduced because there wasn't enough support for Communism. Yeah, I agree that a compensation cannot undue the wrongs that were done to people. A compensation is just that: a compensation, not a time-machine. So when Germany paid compensations to those who survived the concentration camps, or their offspring, they didn't pay them out so to wash away their sins. Communism in Romania, as in other Communist countries, had many victims of many ethnicities, including Hungarians and Germans, not to mention Romanians. So what your family suffered had nothing to do with them being Greeks. All (major) private enterprises were seized, in all Communist countries. This thread, however, is not about Communism and its wrongdoings, so your analogy between this and Romania wanting Greece to recognize the Aromanian minority is incorrect.
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Post by amateurs on Nov 16, 2012 14:47:23 GMT -5
Rex doesn't know what he's talking about. At best, Rex will make a joke and post a link to an academical text, but that will only get you that far. Of course Romanians are linked to Aromanians, mostly through language.
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Post by Catcher in the Rye on Nov 16, 2012 15:14:35 GMT -5
Vlach is an exonym for Romanian. Saying that Vlachs have nothing to do with Romanians is like saying Greeks have nothing to do with Hellenes, Hungarians with Magyars, Albanians with Sqiptars, Germans with Deutschs and other examples of this kind.
It is logical that Romanians mixed with Slavs, the thing is that those weren't real Slavs but Slav speakers. So, an assimilated Bulgar or Serb most likely only recovered his lost nationality. It's quite possible also that not a lot of Bulgarians are Mongolized Romanians. There are so many dubious mugs amongst Bulgarians... Those are true Mongolians, no doubt about it.
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Kanaris
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Post by Kanaris on Nov 16, 2012 17:38:03 GMT -5
Gotta agree with amateurs here... Romanians are linked to Aromanians..
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Post by rex362 on Nov 16, 2012 17:38:40 GMT -5
Rex doesn't know what he's talking about. At best, Rex will make a joke and post a link to an academical text, but that will only get you that far. Of course Romanians are linked to Aromanians, mostly through language. Romanian language and Vlach is not the same
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Post by rex362 on Nov 16, 2012 17:43:55 GMT -5
Gotta agree with amateurs here... Romanians are linked to Aromanians.. the only thing they have in common was being Latinized in language our majority Balkan Vlachs spoke /speak Military soldier Latin from the Roman days and that military soildier latin was different than Roman Latin ...and that is bcs it was mixed with much bcs of the soldiers being from different areas of differ dialects and languages and the building of the road of Ignatia had much to do with it also the Balkan vlachs/aroumouns were Illyrian that lost their Language to the Romans Albanians and Vlachs are common Illyrians everything about them besides the language is same ....culture language ,dance ,food and look .....hence the word Vlah = Brother in Albanian even when the Vlach speak it flows and rolls off the tongue easily in Albanian and vice versa ...(easily repeated ) dont fall for the Wiki bs the few words modern Romania and Arumqe have in common is limited
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Post by rex362 on Nov 16, 2012 17:53:34 GMT -5
Pyrros Bro .....do you know any Vlah words , sayings or can you maybe speak it ?
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Nov 17, 2012 0:39:55 GMT -5
Gotta agree with amateurs here... Romanians are linked to Aromanians.. there is no connection at all. nothing. a makedonian has more in common with a guy from vladivostok than a greko-albo-vlah with a Romanian.
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Nov 17, 2012 0:41:40 GMT -5
Pyrros Bro .....do you know any Vlah words , sayings or can you maybe speak it ? no man, but i got a vlah aunt. i think e.g. "valia" is the valley and "luna" is the moon.... but also the same ppl used "belo" for white, gusterica for lizard, you know cousin boy... my serbian is by 100000 better than vlah.
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Post by amateurs on Nov 17, 2012 4:50:17 GMT -5
Rex doesn't know what he's talking about. At best, Rex will make a joke and post a link to an academical text, but that will only get you that far. Of course Romanians are linked to Aromanians, mostly through language. Romanian language and Vlach is not the same Nor did anyone claim such a thing. We claimed a link, not similarity. Just like you claim a historical link to the Arvanites.
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Post by amateurs on Nov 17, 2012 4:58:46 GMT -5
Gotta agree with amateurs here... Romanians are linked to Aromanians.. the only thing they have in common was being Latinized in language our majority Balkan Vlachs spoke /speak Military soldier Latin from the Roman days and that military soildier latin was different than Roman Latin ...and that is bcs it was mixed with much bcs of the soldiers being from different areas of differ dialects and languages and the building of the road of Ignatia had much to do with it also the Balkan vlachs/aroumouns were Illyrian that lost their Language to the Romans Albanians and Vlachs are common Illyrians everything about them besides the language is same ....culture language ,dance ,food and look .....hence the word Vlah = Brother in Albanian even when the Vlach speak it flows and rolls off the tongue easily in Albanian and vice versa ...(easily repeated ) dont fall for the Wiki bs the few words modern Romania and Arumqe have in common is limited What you write there is purely nonsense. A big part of the Aromanians were Thracians, the latest Thracian tribe to be romanized being the Bessi. Secondly, Aromanian is quite similar to Romanian. In writing, a Romanian could understood more than two-thirds of the text. So you see, it's not just a few words that we have in common. Thirdly, there's no such thing as "military Latin". You probably referred to Vulgar Latin, which was spread not only by soldiers, but also by merchants. Other regions of the Roman Empire, such as Portugal and Spain, were romanized in the same process, the big difference being that the romanization took longer there and they had no intrusion equivalent to that of the Slavs. Fourthly, some of the Aromanians are surely of Illyrian stock, but that don't make their link to Romanians any less. Just because Albanians hail from unromanized Illyrians doesn't mean that you have the exclusive right to the Illyrian ancestry. So please, if you don't know what you're talking about, invest your time in entertaining Canaris instead.
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Post by amateurs on Nov 17, 2012 5:05:16 GMT -5
Gotta agree with amateurs here... Romanians are linked to Aromanians.. there is no connection at all. nothing. a makedonian has more in common with a guy from vladivostok than a greko-albo-vlah with a Romanian. In your first assessment, you say there are no links between Aromanians and Romanians; in your second assessment, when you say that an Aromanian has "more in common with a guy from Vladivostok", you allude that there are, in fact, some links between Romanians and Aromanians. No matter, though. I know it's dangerous to debate semantics with you. I understand that you don't think Aromanians are linked to Romanians. I just think it's strange that you believe Romanians have a lot in common with Serbs, for instance, but not with the Aromanians who live near that region, and who speak a related language; and who, about 1300 years ago, were free to dwell south and north of Danube.
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Nov 17, 2012 9:35:37 GMT -5
there is no connection at all. nothing. a makedonian has more in common with a guy from vladivostok than a greko-albo-vlah with a Romanian.[/q] in your second assessment, when you say that an Aromanian has "more in common with a guy from Vladivostok", dude its one freaking quote above... now repeat after me : a makedonian SLAV has more in common with a guy from vladivostok than a greko-albo-vlah with a Romanian.
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Post by rex362 on Nov 17, 2012 10:36:52 GMT -5
Pyrros Bro .....do you know any Vlah words , sayings or can you maybe speak it ? no man, but i got a vlah aunt. i think e.g. "valia" is the valley and "luna" is the moon.... but also the same ppl used "belo" for white, gusterica for lizard, you know cousin boy... my serbian is by 100000 better than vlah. we also use guster /gusterica also for lizard in Prespa ..but its not the Alb version
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Post by kartadolofonos on Nov 17, 2012 22:41:14 GMT -5
Listen Romanians the Vlachs are Greeks, got it ! Aroumanians are Greeks and not a minority in Greece !!
We Greek Vlachs know the real Vlach history from our ancestors who taught us that our roots are of Greek origin "
Vlachoi (Armani) Romanised mercenary Greek soldiers of the Roman legions
To be able to 'see' what the Vlachs have to go in the first years of the Roman Empire in Greece have come close to the coexistence of Greek and Latin.
After the conquest of Greece by the Romans, almost all areas of the northern border had to face several hostile nations that created problems for the local population with plundered, looted, pillaged, and burning etc ...
The Romans not to create further outbreaks of war, put garrisons soldiers across all road crossings for any eventuality.
Romans continued the ancient institution in force like Macedonia that of Philip II and his successors where Macedonian guards night watch the border.
Initially the soldiers were Romans garrisons soldiers later but with the dominance of Augustus, the Romans began to man the garrisons soldier with Greeks.
So begins a sharp decline of the Roman forces in the provinces of the Eastern Roman Empire, and mainly in the province of Macedonia (in 148 BC Macedonia along with Epirus, Thessaly and Southern Illyria a Roman province under the generic name of the province Macedonia) and from the time of Hadrian garrisons soldiers Romans only were officers and soldiers were only locals recruited Greeks who could live in those difficult mountainous conditions.
The Latin character and then the Roman consciousness slowly dying and they still are officers tend to assimilate the local Greek soldiers.
Common body of understanding Latin language was naturally unknown and alien to the Greek.
Therefore had to find a common language understood by all measure since all military training and all commands given to the era of Mauritius in the Latin language because it was the official language of the state. All nationals soldiers and their families who lived in these pathways had to adjust language.
Thus in the Roman (Macedonian province) began to assimilate the Greek language Latin and Greek and Latin with the business combination of the two forms of language have the birth of a Latin-based spoken language of so-called Vlach.
In the Vlach language, linguistic elements are getting full assimilation and confusion not betray the identity of the Greek or Latin language with a cursory examination (only an expert can tell us what the word Vlach is derived from one or another language).
The vocabulary of the Greek Vlach prevail language types.
Specifically informs us Nikolaidis of 6657 words referred to the 2605 dictionary is of Latin origin, and the 3460 Greek. So the residents of garrisons soldiers written next to their mother tongue acquired Greek and Vlach, not called by his fellow "Vlachs" themselves but still call themselves "Armani", ie Greeks as is known to all Greek
"Vlachs" write, studied and only in Greek capitals to the national script.
Vlach keep them in remembrance of Greekness. ( Romiosini !! )
Similar to the Vlach by several other languages were created (with the extension of the Romans) and other Romance languages such as French, Portuguese, Romanian language they all have natural affinity after all intervening assimilates the Latin language but they have absolutely no Another family relationship and most importantly absolutely no racial trait with the Greek Vlachs Armani of Greece ..
All these languages today as distant descendants of a Latin influence are common words but adapted to local language types each effect. -
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Post by amateurs on Nov 18, 2012 4:56:35 GMT -5
No Greeks were romanized. Only Thracians, Illyrians, and Dacians.
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Post by Catcher in the Rye on Nov 18, 2012 9:46:33 GMT -5
Aromanian sounds like more than very close to Romanian. AFAIK there are a number of Aromanian dialects and one especially is very close to Romanian, I think the „fârşerot” one. They even don't call themselves „arâmâni” but „rămâni”. Others are „grămuşteni” and so on. Indeend in writing it is more than obvious it's the same language, but instead calling Aromanian a Romanian dialect, it's Romanian, Aromanian, Meglenoromanian and Istroromanian who are all dialects of the Balkan Romance or Common Romanian, which split when the Mongol slaves settled in the Balkans.
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Post by amateurs on Nov 18, 2012 10:19:25 GMT -5
For the record, the kind of Aromanians that we just saw in that video ... please keep them, let them be Greek, or whatever. We don't need any more of this crap associated with our name.
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