wbb
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Post by wbb on Jul 13, 2008 5:40:17 GMT -5
The best ever, Szapolyai Janos was the best King ever of Eyaleti Hungary. Budai Eyalet was an administrative unit of the Ottoman Empire that included parts of present-day Hungary, Serbia, Croatia, and Slovakia. Capital of the Buda Province was Buda. Province was formed after Ottoman army conquered Buda in 1541. In 1596 and 1600, the new pashaluks of Egir and Kanizse were formed and some parts of the Buda Pashaluk were included into these pashaluks. Adminstrative division of Ottoman Hungary.Sandzak Buda Sandzak Mohacs Sandzak Szekesfehervar Sandzak Csanad Sandzak Pecsujt Sandzak Pozsega Sandzak Szeged Sandzak Szerem Sandzak Koppany Sandzak Siklos Sandzak Kecskerecs Sandzak Dunaszekcso Sandzak Kevevára Sandzak Racskeve Sandzak Szemtornya Sandzak Szekszard Sandzak Usturgom Sandzak Szemendire (Szendro) Sandzak Zvornik Sandzak Alacahisar. May Allah bless Ottoman Empire, a united land of Turks. Turkish gave us freedom, we are the strongest Turks ever in the world, Hungary is an island of Turks in europe, Cmon Turkey come back and lets kick arse of the reckless Slaves from Russia. Ottoman gave nearly all of Serbia to administration of Buda Eyalet. hahaha Note how it's says Buda Eyalet?!
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Post by diurpaneus on Jul 13, 2008 12:30:11 GMT -5
What`s with that city "Kanisza"? It looks like a foreign enclave in the Ottoman Empire?
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wbb
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Post by wbb on Jul 13, 2008 23:08:04 GMT -5
I dont know diur, it's pretty weird, it should be part of Budai Eyalet. probably Kanizsa wasnt coloniszed back then, maybe just a piece of empty land.
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Post by chalkedon on Jul 14, 2008 6:06:11 GMT -5
are you a wahhabi ?
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wbb
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Post by wbb on Jul 15, 2008 3:55:29 GMT -5
no, im sunni following Salafi teaching which is something like an orthodox muslim. Wahhabi are not sunni, they are different type of sect of islam. They dont associate with Salafi nor sunni, shiite etc,etc. Wahhabism is very bad and modern, Salafi is very old since Mohammed times, he called his companions as salaf. We follow Mohammed, his companians and all the rightly guided Caliph.
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Post by chalkedon on Jul 15, 2008 5:53:57 GMT -5
^^^ i see....
so why do you support this type of teaching in Hungary ? We are in europe my friend..
Do you know that the one of the best friends of Hungary is Poland ? And you do know who saved europe from the ottomans right ? So, I think there is a conflilct of interest here.......
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wbb
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Post by wbb on Jul 16, 2008 4:55:11 GMT -5
In Hungary these days, people want to practice what they want to practice, doesnt matter what religion, they can be Muslim, christians, hindu, sikh, pagan, hari krshna,etc,etc. We are not to judge on their belief. Europe, Asia, America, Africa, Australia, doesnt matter what type religion are there in a continent, in china there are some Chinese muslims and they are not arab and doesnt speak a word of Arabic. In australia it's very mixed same goes with United States, continent doesnt count, yes Europe was known as Christendom but not anymore, Middle East use to be known as Islamdom but not anymore, since there some non muslims there too, the population is moving to another side of the river. not sure about that but yes we have a very strong relation with them, they are very nice people, they love u only when u love them, Polish are catholics, i still love them, i have nothing against them. ya, Polish, Germans, and some Hungarians. there's no conflict here, Hungary was known as the protector of Christendom, they fought many battles against Ottomans, they won some battles against Ottomans, most famous one is the battle of Eger, when the Ottomans couldnt take the fort of Eger. I dont agree with that because Turks are brother of Hungary, because genetically Hungarians are Turks and Turan, Iranian, but still i dont jugde them about that as long as they wont force and interfer me on my religion=Islam, i have nothing against them being Christians, so i suggest i should have the same from them. Overall, it's not the people's fate of belief we should be judging, but there personality, there's good and bad in every religion.
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Post by chalkedon on Jul 16, 2008 5:14:25 GMT -5
youre right about the religion part...there are both good and bad in every religion. The only problem w/ islam is that the good ppl dont speak out against the bad. And this is a problem.
For the rest...i have a difference of an opinion. I dont think modern hungarians are anyway related to turks much less the bulgarians which have a similar situation. Besides even the turks in turkey arent really turks....you have to go further east to kyrgiztan or the caucaus to find the real turks....IMO of course
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wbb
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Post by wbb on Jul 16, 2008 7:31:41 GMT -5
That's a one major problem, that muslims dont give a chit about what other muslim like Osama Bin Laden do, we should raise our voice towards them. most fortunate these days is that many muslim leaders are corrupted, like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Palestine,etc,etc. majority of them no but minority of them yes, but when i say that hungarians are turks, i meant it by historically, racially, modern hungarians these days have slavic, german, gypsy, arab and also greek blood since we assimilated alot of greeks in hungary. However many Hungarians that including me (eerrm i have arab blood too lol) still consider ourself Turanic, Turkic. actually i heard about that, and i agree that todays Turkish are not Turk or Turkic, but very mixed like Hungarians however Hungarians are still more Turks than Turkish, since we dont intermarry as much as Turkish does. Most Turksh people often get jealous about it lol. ;D I met some couple of Turkish and hey say that Hungarians are stronger Turks than Turkish itself and they also say that Hungary is a island of Turks in Europe. Turkmen for example are very Turk, Uighur is another because they live in a region known as Turkestan, u can see they are very mongol, Tatar themselves are more Turks than Turkish, but not many Turks look mongols, they look a bit like half european and half asian, white coloured skin with minor asiatic looking eyes, light blond hair, some them have light brown hair, so even if u have a dark black coloured hair, does not mean ur a turk, because majority of Turks dont have dark black hair, all those Turkish who have dark black hair, have small amount of Kurdish, Iranian, Arab and also gypsy bloods.
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Post by chalkedon on Jul 16, 2008 7:38:36 GMT -5
Really ? I didnt know about a greek presence in hungary.. Thats nice to hear though
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wbb
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Post by wbb on Jul 16, 2008 7:53:43 GMT -5
a greek village in Hungary name Beloiannis is one of the example. Those Greeks in Hungary are Communist who left Greece for Hungary, historically the village named Gorogfalva (means Greek county or something) rename into Beloiannis after Nikos Beloiannis the political figure of Greece. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beloiannisz
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Post by chalkedon on Jul 16, 2008 8:02:17 GMT -5
^^^ Well, i learned something today Im going there soon to see budapest. Heard great things about the city ! Never met a hungarian so...it will be pretty cool to be there. In any case, since your part arab i can see why you want an ottoman hungary...but IMO it would be better for a european hungary w/ close ties to its neighbors around it. The ottoman connection should be left in the past...we definitly dont want that to happen again ;D
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wbb
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Post by wbb on Jul 16, 2008 8:38:30 GMT -5
very nice city, with interesting historic buildings like Royal Palace of Buda on the Buda side, interesting parliament very similar to London parliament except we have a middle eastern style dome on the top. Margit island is situated on the middle of the dunabe between Buda and Pest, there a swimming pool there and a slide plus sexy womens on their bra, they love foreigners. In Pest side there's alot of disco club playing Armin Van Buuren's song with sexy women on their tight pants lol. there's alot of greek resturant, nearly every corner in Pest have Gyros. On Buda side we still have some old Turkish Ottoman monument name Gul Baba, it's a turbe of course, Matthias church not too far from the Palace is very popular among many tourist, so even if it's not an orthodox church, it's still a christian church with nice artitect, very typical european design something like a gothic. there's so much to see, u can do alot of shopping for interesting things in Vaci Utca (street), so if u come to hungary, help yourself like at home sweet home. lol lol, i love Ottoman culture, they are very colourful, from Nargile to Buzuki.
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yeni
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Post by yeni on Sept 24, 2008 15:34:33 GMT -5
epa.oszk.hu/00600/00617/00002/tsz98_3_4_hegyi_klara.htmThis is an interesing essay about the ethnic composition of the Ottoman forces in Hungary. It is based on three army pay lists that survived and they also list the place of origin of the soldiers and their religion. The paper is in Hungarian but it also has a short briefing in English: KLÁRA HEGYI ETHNIC GROUPS, RELIGION, ISLAMISATION. THE ORIGIN AND THE REPLACEMENT OF THE GARRISON SOLDIERS IN THE VILAYET OF BUDA Both the linguistic and material relics of Turkish rule in Hungary demonstrate that a good part of the local `Turkish’ population was of Balkan descent. Another known fact is that garrison soldiers formed the majority of local Turks. This study examines the ethnic and religious background of the garrison soldiers. Three 16th century pay-lists are used as source material. These lists tell us the names of soldiers, where they came from, and the names of closest relatives. The first list indicates the origins of 803 top infantrymen (müstahfiz) forming part of a new garrison located at Fehérvár (Stuhlweissenburg). This fortress was occupied by the Turks on 2 September 1543. Nine percent of these soldiers had come to Hungary from Asia Minor, while 90% were from the Balkan peninsula. The origins of soldiers in the larger second group are indicated in more detail in Map 1. Men from all parts of the Balkans joined the troops of the Sultan, so that they might serve as soldiers in the new province and be assured of a living. The second list is one prepared in 1558. It contains the names of all soldiers serving in the fortresses of the province (vilayet) of Buda. When new recruits were added to this list, their personal details were included as well as their names. We examined data for 814 new recruits who came to Hungary at a time of relative peace as replacements for departing soldiers. Since garrison soldiers were being replaced at a rapid rate, within a couple of decades these new recruits comprised almost the whole sum of garrison staff (and thus the majority of the Turkish population in Hungary). The places of origin of the 814 new recruits are shown in Map 2. A good 80 percent of the soldiers came from Bosnia, Herzegovina, Serbia, and the region between the Sava and Drava rivers. In other words, these men were Bosnians and Serbs. An examination of the third pay-list (dating from 1559) shows that new recruits to the superior arms of service (müstahfiz, faris, topci) were mainly from Bosnia, Herzegovina, and Western Serbia. Indeed, most of these men were from Bosnia and about 80% had been born into Muslim families; more than half were from small villages. Soldiers of the inferior arms of service (azab, martolóc) tended to be from Serb-speaking areas. Meanwhile soldiers (martalóc) who fought as Christians were mainly from a district bordered by the Danube, Morava and Timok rivers; this was the largest area of Vlach settlement in the northern Balkans. The pay-lists usually referred to the brothers of new recruits as their closest relatives. An examination of these names indicates that among the Bosnians and the Serbs the conversion of whole generations of families to Islam was the norm. Cases of converted new recruits who still have Christian brothers are rare. However, the opposite is true among the Albanians and Hungarians. Among these two very much smaller groups, individual conversion seems to have been more common; most of the soldiers’ brothers are Christians. The Turkish administration differentiated between ethnic/religious groups. It considered the conversion of Orthodox Christians to be quite natural, and therefore, for converts from this group, neither the ethnic background nor the fact of conversion were mentioned in the pay-lists. However, when it came to western Christians (Croats, Slovenes, Slovaks, Czechs, Hungarians, and recruits from the Catholic areas of Albania), the scribe would note the name of the ethnic group and record whether or not the conversion of a soldier had been voluntarily.I translated the most interesting datas from the text: The first table contains the mustahfiz (castle garrison) soldiers in Székesfehérvár in 1543. It lists 803 soldiers, 10,3 % came from Thrace (defined as east of Plovdiv-Drama line it also includes Istanbul, Edirne), 8,1% from the Lower Danube (from Vidin to the Danube delta) 9,1% from Bulgaria (the rest of today Bulgaria which isn’t included in others), 11,1% from Serb territories (Kosovo and the Drava-Sava region also included) 15,8% came from Macedonia (defined as western boundary is the lake Ohrid, eastern border is the Plovdiv-Drama line, in north Skopje, in south Thessaloniki) 8,6 % from Albania 4,0 % from Northern Greece 4,5 % from Morea (Peloponnesos peninsula) 15,3% from Bosnia (Bosna sandzak) 3,1% from Herzegovina (Hersek sandzak) 9,3% from Asia Minor/Anatolia 0,7% from Hungary. Among the soldiers 67,6% were native muslims and 32,4% renegade=first generation muslims. The second list contains 814 new recruits to the castles in the Vilayet of Buda, its from 1558. Here 0,7% came from Thrace 2,1% Lower Danube 1,8% Bulgaria 29,0% Serb territories 1,6% Macedonia 1,8 Albania 0,7% Northern Greece 0,2 % Morea 40,2% Bosnia 12,9% Herzegovina 2,5% Asia Minor 6,4% Hungary. Here 62,8% were native muslims, 22,1% renegade first gen muslim, and 15,1% were christians (who remained christian, didn’t become muslim)! There were particulary lot of christian soldiers from the Lower Danube (41,1% of the recruits from that area), Serbian territories (36,9 %), Northern Greece (16,7%) and Hungary (26,9%). The third list was not as detailed like these two. it also includes recruits to the castles of the Vilayet of Buda, one year later. Here among the 276 mustahfiz soldiers 63% came from Bosnia and Herzegovina and 24% from Serbia, Drava-Sava area and around Vidin. the origin of the 337 faris soldiers (or ulufedzi or beslik, cavalry units) was very similar to the mustahfiz soldiers. Among the 331 martaloc (marauder?, the lowest class looter units..), 278 ppl or 84% came from Serbian territories, Drava-Sava and Lower Danube areas, only 5 was muslim among them (4 native and 1 renegade). Very interesting the historiography calls this era mostly „Turkish occupation” „török hódoltság” while in fact ethnic Turks from Anatolia were quite rare in Hungary. ;D
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Post by oszkarthehun on Sept 25, 2008 7:17:39 GMT -5
aha so it seems Hungary was mostly occupied by Ottomised converted Southern Slavs. about Hungary being "Island of Turks" apparently there is very small Turkish community in Hungary en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_HungaryOne will find much more Turks in Germany, Austria, and even Romania than in Hungary.
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yeni
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Post by yeni on Sept 25, 2008 12:02:22 GMT -5
Yes the 17th century Ottoman traveller Evliya Chelebi also mentions that about Buda "The whole population of Buda are Bosniaks from Bosnia" but also mentions that they can speak Hungarian clearly. Here he most likely refers to the muslim population of the city as in other parts of the book he also mentions jews, magyars, germans croats in Buda. kt.lib.pte.hu/cgi-bin/kt.cgi?konyvtar/kt04111902/tartalom.html here is Evliya Chelebi's travels in Hungary.
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Post by Sh1 Shonić on Sept 25, 2008 12:50:18 GMT -5
"May Allah bless Ottoman Empire, a united land of Turks. Turkish gave us freedom, we are the strongest Turks ever in the world, Hungary is an island of Turks in europe, Cmon Turkey come back and lets kick arse of the reckless Slaves from Russia. Ottoman gave nearly all of Serbia to administration of Buda Eyalet. hahaha"
Jo lenne ha meglatagadnad a pszihiatered. Ha nincsen sajatod tudnek ajalani 1et: Csernus doktort.
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wbb
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Post by wbb on Sept 27, 2008 23:12:43 GMT -5
ja a seggem, a legy tobb muszlim magyarorszagon, volt arab, kurd, alban, torok es magyar, es nagyan keves slavok, bosniak nem slav ha nem bosniak, inkabb Pecheneg vagy Bacanak.
te meg mikor mes kifele magyarisztan-bol? miert nem mes vissza koszovaba, ha nagyan fontos neked a koszova?
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Post by srbobran on Sept 28, 2008 15:16:55 GMT -5
Say it in English.
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yeni
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Post by yeni on Sept 28, 2008 17:55:30 GMT -5
ja a seggem, a legy tobb muszlim magyarorszagon, volt arab, kurd, alban, torok es magyar, es nagyan keves slavok, bosniak nem slav ha nem bosniak, inkabb Pecheneg vagy Bacanak. te meg mikor mes kifele magyarisztan-bol? miert nem mes vissza koszovaba, ha nagyan fontos neked a koszova? wbb the overwhelming majority of the Ottoman forces in Hungary were from the Balkans, and among them primary South Slavs. The sources (the Ottoman sources!) support this. there were many ppl from other ethnicities too, i even read about persian and georgian pashas in Ottoman Hungary, but they were minority. And believe it or not, the Bosniaks are also South Slavs... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_slavsBosniaks have nothing to do with Pechenegs (besenyõk), be serious... And shonic can stay in Hungary, he is not Kosovo Serb i think, why should he go there.
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