Post by Babylon Enigma on Jun 1, 2011 18:25:49 GMT -5
From earlier threads, I opposed the idea that y-haplogroup I2a2 was Slavic in origin, and that it was mainly a native haplogroup marker.
From scientific point of view, and its relation with the Balkan people, I now am with the viewpoint that it I2a2 is of Slavic origin, and for whatever reason, seems to be most concentrated among Serbs.
image-upload.de/image/kodYhv/4939f35c68.jpg
I2a2 diversity peaks around the Carpathian range, both north and south, this means, the oldest subclades, or its origin is from the forest regions around the Carpathians.
All branches of I haplogroup are decedents from Cro-Magnons, which is why I believe the survivors of this haplogroup dwelled in the forests(hunters and gatherers) of Carpathian range away from Neolithic expansion, and the Aryan steppe dwellers.
Carriers of this lineage are usually tall and robust, strong jaw and lack hair baldness. Female lineage can interfere with this phenotype, but if such specimens are paired with their natural mate, the phenotype I describes would be the offspring.
In physical anthropology this type is likely associated with what Coon called Carpathian and Balkan Borreby-like Types.
"Evidence of the survival of an extremely tall, brachycephalized, Upper Palaeolithic stock is found to a lesser extent in the Carpathians; and to a greater, in the nucleus of the Dinaric Alpine region, from Bosnia to northern Albania, and centered in Montenegro. Although the presence of these nuclei cannot now be fully explained, it seems probable that they represent local survivals and reëmergences of relatively unreduced Upper Palaeolithic populations. The Montenegrins are the tallest people in Europe; their tallness does not, however, imply a thin or linear build; their bodies are frequently thick-set, lateral in constitutional type"
A Carpatho-Russian, or Ruthenian, from the Polish Carpathians. His tall stature, heavy bony structure, large face, etc., point to a basic relationship with the unreduced Upper Palaeolithic survivors of the northwest.
A Montenegrin of aristocratic lineage; in the main an oversized, Upper Palaeolithic survivor, but brunet in pigmentation, like many of the Serbs to whom the Montenegrins are closely related, and who do not, as a rule, possess the over-sized characters of their mountain kinsmen.
A blond Montenegrin with extreme width of the cranial vault and mandible.
An Albanian from Malsia ë Madhë, near the Montenegrin border.
An Albanian from the clan of Shoshi in the isolated mountain tribe of Dukagin. This man is a blond giant with a broad, heavy-boned body; his face is shorter than the width of his mandible. The unreduced Upper Palaeolithic character of the local mountain type is clearly seen in this individual.
carnby.altervista.org/troe/p-08.htm
So it appears the Slavs pretty much displaced the locals, especially from the frontiers areas which were most likely sparsely populated, while in the Morava river valley Serbs, seemed to have absorbed a lot of natives (E and J carriers), since Moesia was well within Byzantine borders and a fertile place that can support dense population.
The Dinaric alps since the fall of Rome was the frontier for the Byzantine empire and as such could not have been densely populated, the area was far from Byzantine protection but very near the Turkic and other barbarian base of operations in Hungary, and was likely very often plundered. Byzantine rule remained along the cities by the coast until Serbs and Croats penetrate it.
That is why haplogroup I2a2 peaks in Herzegovania, Bosnia and western Serbia and northern Montenegro.
Also worth to note, Istrian Vlachs lack haplogroup I2a2, verifying that it is alien to the area and must have came from Serbs and Croats.
Great reading and extra info regarding haplogroup I and its branches.
www.buildinghistory.org/distantpast/haplogroupi.shtml
I2a2 and its relation to Serbs and Slavs.
www.buildinghistory.org/distantpast/slavs.shtml
From scientific point of view, and its relation with the Balkan people, I now am with the viewpoint that it I2a2 is of Slavic origin, and for whatever reason, seems to be most concentrated among Serbs.
image-upload.de/image/kodYhv/4939f35c68.jpg
I2a2 diversity peaks around the Carpathian range, both north and south, this means, the oldest subclades, or its origin is from the forest regions around the Carpathians.
All branches of I haplogroup are decedents from Cro-Magnons, which is why I believe the survivors of this haplogroup dwelled in the forests(hunters and gatherers) of Carpathian range away from Neolithic expansion, and the Aryan steppe dwellers.
Carriers of this lineage are usually tall and robust, strong jaw and lack hair baldness. Female lineage can interfere with this phenotype, but if such specimens are paired with their natural mate, the phenotype I describes would be the offspring.
In physical anthropology this type is likely associated with what Coon called Carpathian and Balkan Borreby-like Types.
"Evidence of the survival of an extremely tall, brachycephalized, Upper Palaeolithic stock is found to a lesser extent in the Carpathians; and to a greater, in the nucleus of the Dinaric Alpine region, from Bosnia to northern Albania, and centered in Montenegro. Although the presence of these nuclei cannot now be fully explained, it seems probable that they represent local survivals and reëmergences of relatively unreduced Upper Palaeolithic populations. The Montenegrins are the tallest people in Europe; their tallness does not, however, imply a thin or linear build; their bodies are frequently thick-set, lateral in constitutional type"
A Carpatho-Russian, or Ruthenian, from the Polish Carpathians. His tall stature, heavy bony structure, large face, etc., point to a basic relationship with the unreduced Upper Palaeolithic survivors of the northwest.
A Montenegrin of aristocratic lineage; in the main an oversized, Upper Palaeolithic survivor, but brunet in pigmentation, like many of the Serbs to whom the Montenegrins are closely related, and who do not, as a rule, possess the over-sized characters of their mountain kinsmen.
A blond Montenegrin with extreme width of the cranial vault and mandible.
An Albanian from Malsia ë Madhë, near the Montenegrin border.
An Albanian from the clan of Shoshi in the isolated mountain tribe of Dukagin. This man is a blond giant with a broad, heavy-boned body; his face is shorter than the width of his mandible. The unreduced Upper Palaeolithic character of the local mountain type is clearly seen in this individual.
carnby.altervista.org/troe/p-08.htm
So it appears the Slavs pretty much displaced the locals, especially from the frontiers areas which were most likely sparsely populated, while in the Morava river valley Serbs, seemed to have absorbed a lot of natives (E and J carriers), since Moesia was well within Byzantine borders and a fertile place that can support dense population.
The Dinaric alps since the fall of Rome was the frontier for the Byzantine empire and as such could not have been densely populated, the area was far from Byzantine protection but very near the Turkic and other barbarian base of operations in Hungary, and was likely very often plundered. Byzantine rule remained along the cities by the coast until Serbs and Croats penetrate it.
That is why haplogroup I2a2 peaks in Herzegovania, Bosnia and western Serbia and northern Montenegro.
Also worth to note, Istrian Vlachs lack haplogroup I2a2, verifying that it is alien to the area and must have came from Serbs and Croats.
Great reading and extra info regarding haplogroup I and its branches.
www.buildinghistory.org/distantpast/haplogroupi.shtml
I2a2 and its relation to Serbs and Slavs.
www.buildinghistory.org/distantpast/slavs.shtml