ioan
Amicus
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Post by ioan on Mar 27, 2009 0:32:12 GMT -5
And if someone has an ache in the haid, you should read SLOWER. There is nothing not understandable in what I wrote or nationalistic. Claiming of the Thracians by the Greeks as exclusively theirs (though having one small part of their land) is not understandble.
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ioan
Amicus
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Post by ioan on Mar 27, 2009 7:16:58 GMT -5
Believe it or not, on the Bolkans, we are all cousins.
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Post by tsompanos on Mar 27, 2009 9:40:57 GMT -5
but the thracians spoke greek so how did you know who was thracian and who was greek? plus greeks didnt only live in the coastal areas
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ioan
Amicus
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Post by ioan on Mar 27, 2009 14:48:41 GMT -5
some were hellenized, some were romanized. and some went on to speak their thracian language - there are sources from 6th century that Bessian was spoken and even the bible was translated into it. Acording to some linguists (I dont remember where I read it sorry) there was a significant difference between the Greek the Hellenes spoke and the Greek the hellenized Thracians spoke. I suppose they never felt Greek, judging from the sources where Thracians, Thracian, Bessian was used very intensively. And I think alot of them later were slavized by the arriving Slavs. Also lots of linguist think that Thracian was very close to Baltic (some call it south baltic), so maybe it was not that far of the Slavic. Its just a hypothesis.
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bato2
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Art Changed The World
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Post by bato2 on May 20, 2009 9:01:59 GMT -5
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Aris
Amicus
Greek Troll
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Post by Aris on Jun 17, 2009 7:51:35 GMT -5
No one of those people is descendant of the Thracians , but I vote for our Bulgarian comrades !
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Post by chalkedon on Jun 17, 2009 7:53:45 GMT -5
i agree, bulgarians are the closest...maybe some romanians as well
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Aris
Amicus
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Post by Aris on Jun 17, 2009 7:56:38 GMT -5
i agree, bulgarians are the closest...maybe some romanians as well I didn't say that the Bulgarians are they're descendants ! The real descendants of the Thracians are the Albanians of Thrace , the people of Monsignor Theophan Stilian Noli ! Those who live from Mandricë to Ibrik Tepe !
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Rhezus
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DERZA STURIA TRAUS
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Post by Rhezus on Aug 26, 2009 8:12:14 GMT -5
Byzantium was not greek, as all others, (i.e. thracians, illyrians etc.) the greeks were only part of Byzantium. The common spoken langauge was the greek (same as English is today), but in practice, all these ppl had their own speech. Byzantium was separated from Rome because of the number of emprerors of Panonian, Thracian, Illyrian origin. They wanted to rule over their own territories - the east Roman Empire and that was their own will. And finaly... Thracians are our forefathers and they were defenately non-greek.
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Post by tsompanos on Aug 30, 2009 11:59:54 GMT -5
thats why everyone and themselfs proclaimed them as Greeks rhezus?
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tyson
Amicus
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Post by tyson on Sept 7, 2009 12:35:13 GMT -5
Byzantium was not greek, as all others, (i.e. thracians, illyrians etc.) the greeks were only part of Byzantium. The common spoken langauge was the greek (same as English is today), but in practice, all these ppl had their own speech. Byzantium was separated from Rome because of the number of emprerors of Panonian, Thracian, Illyrian origin. They wanted to rule over their own territories - the east Roman Empire and that was their own will. And finaly... Thracians are our forefathers and they were defenately non-greek. i agree with rhezus
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Post by tsompanos on Sept 7, 2009 14:53:45 GMT -5
Oh well if you dont want to look like an idiot you should agree with history and facts
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Post by Kassandros on Sept 8, 2009 14:43:19 GMT -5
Romanians and Albanians are descendants of Thracians Serbs and Bulgarians are slavs, Greeks and Turks are the same so I don't know where they came from, probably Mongolia greeks and turks are not the same.... Greeks and Western Turks are the same. They are just janissary Greeks who muslified during the Ottoman era. Look their faces. They have nothing to do with the Turks of Anatolia.
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Post by Kassandros on Sept 8, 2009 14:50:14 GMT -5
First of all Ioan you have to define which Thracians do you mean. And I will tell you why.. Lets take Thracians were not a Greek tribe. We both agree that Thracians were Hellenized for thousand of years from Greeks. Macedonians soldiers were there. Athenean colonies were there. Spartan colonies were there. etc etc etc. All these constitutes what we mean when we say "Hellenized" Then protoBulgarians came and they start mixing too with the new locals. Then the "Bulgarized" proccess took place. The one that you mention now. Now the question and what it puzzles me: Since protoBulgarian tribes have start mixing with the locals there... who were no more Thracians but a new Hellenized tribe... then why we say "Bulgarians and Thracians" and we dont speak about "Bulgarians and ... Greeks"? If we accept that today's Bulgarians have origins from Thracians due to their mixing.. .do we accept silmutaneously that Thracians of the time protoBulgarians came.. had origins from the Greeks.... and as a concequence... we should speak about "Bulgarians and Greeks"..... and as a concequence.... the Greek origins of Bulgarians? Think of that...
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ioan
Amicus
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Post by ioan on Sept 9, 2009 14:31:42 GMT -5
I have thought about that. And yes, Greek contribution to the Bulgarian nation can not be ruled out. Especially the people that lived on the coast. However, I do not believe there is absolute certainty that this process of helenization of the Thracians took place. Some helenization can not be ruled out, especially on the south BUT there was deffinately romanization (the Vlachs), also there are sources that speak about Bessian language in 7 century. Which means some of the Thracians were not hellenized and romanized. So I am talking about all those people who were in the Bulgarian teritory (romanized/hellenized or not mass of Thracians).
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Post by Kassandros on Sept 9, 2009 14:44:22 GMT -5
ok then. Then yes.. most propably... a part of Thracians must be a part of Bulgarian origin. But again we speak about parts. I'm sure 50% of the Greeks in Greek Thrace have Thracian descedants too. So...the title of the post is not right.. It should be.... "Part of Upper Thracian descedants"..
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ioan
Amicus
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Post by ioan on Sept 10, 2009 0:28:38 GMT -5
Of course Thracian Greeks have Thracian roots. No one denies it.
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Post by Kassandros on Sept 12, 2009 4:09:41 GMT -5
So.. we come to the same conslusion. Bulgaria and Greece both allowed to claim Thrace.. and these is how things are today; The southern part of Thrace belongs to Greek heritage and the Northern part to the Bulgarian one. We both agree that curent map of region.. is the fair one.. right? ... you know... in these forums I've learned that Greece belongs to others ;D and also in these forums you're never sure for the outcome of a discussion. So lets make it clear... this time
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Post by draconist on Mar 5, 2012 17:03:19 GMT -5
Kassandros, please tell me when the "greeks" came to the Balkans and then will ask for connections between "greeks" and "thracians"?
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Post by bowandarrow on Mar 5, 2012 18:35:46 GMT -5
The Goths I guess.
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