Zvone
Amicus
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Posts: 525
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Post by Zvone on Oct 26, 2008 21:32:17 GMT -5
I have NEVER stated anything even close to what you're insinuating. I think you are too paranoid that anyone talking about BiH makes you cling to your ethnic hatred.
If you can show me the GDP proportions including the nominal and real rates that would be true.
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Post by Arthur Kane on Oct 27, 2008 2:07:00 GMT -5
highduke, first of all, you don't need to send me a personal message to attract attention to your response, I will check the thread anyway. You proposed an objective scientific justification for your position by noting Bosniaks and Albanians are 'genetically defective,' I merely challenged that view as pseudo-science and asked for objective proof in scientific journals and peer reviews. It appears you choose not to supply such information. So yes, I appeal science as a method for determining truth from falsehood from which the scientific method itself is an objective methodology for doing so. It isn't subjectivist. The past can be accurately described with facts, the present through observation, and the future with probabilities. Bosniaks came about through human reproduction in a geographic area called 'Bosnia.' In fact, Bosniaks are just people like Serbs and all enter the world the same way, biological reproduction. I don't believe there is a direct correlation or ratio between the death/expulsion of Serbs being directly proportionate to the birth of Bosniaks. Are there any figures that objectively represent a correlation? But lets consider you're argument about brainwashing and lets assume its true. It could mean several things and might be a testable hypothesis. One, if children we're born into a family of 'Bosniaks,' but the family didn't declare itself Bosniak, then you would be absolutely certain that their default , self-acknowledged , identity would be that of Serbs. So we would need to search out all 'Bosniak' families that don't refer to themselves a 'Bosniaks' exactly and see if their nationality of choice is 'Serb.' And there is that word , choice. If ethnicity and nationality were concepts that are objective and scientifically verifiable through segments of the human species , then they would have nothing to do with subjectivity. They would be an objective feature of the human gene pool just like two eyes , two ears , skin pigmentation, etc. are. And even if accept the quasi-mystical notion that ethnicity and nationality are objectively true , they would have no moral content. They would merely describe what 'is,' not what 'ought to be.' But no, ethnic/national/tribal identity are subjective , influenced by culture , and easily changeable. In our evolutionary history this was common , even back in the middle stone age, where tribes of people would exchange members for increased fertility in reproduction. How did Helen of Sparta become Helen of Troy? Did she betray her 'Spartan roots?' So all descendants of Trojans with ancestry from Sparta and other regions of Greece/ the World should have been brutally murdered in the bases of Spartan culture? But yes , lets say the modern Bosniaks are brainwashed. Some 500 years ago their ancestors might have been referred to as Serbs , Croats , Saxons , or something else. But like discussed earlier, ethnic labels are inherently subjective and yield no objective truth value. In other words they are faith based concepts. They are concepts that are quasi-mystical in nature and have no true relationship with actual reality. The way you test this is through experiment. Starting tomorrow, stop calling yourself a Serb, refer to yourself as something else , change your ethnic/national label. Do this for a week or so. So the second you change your label, what happens to you in reality? Nothing. Nothing at all alters your state in material , tangible , objective reality. Nothing changes in the real world. Only in your mind. Then change back into a Serb after a week and see how the real world is altered because of that event. I can pretty much promise you nothing would alter reality based on you changing your concept about being Serb or whatever else. This of course makes the phenomenon of nationalities/ ethnicities a species of the mind , a psychological endeavor, not a species of reality. And since these concepts have no true relationship to external reality, any rational psychologists or people in general would classify them as psycho-delusions. Which is why I agree with you in principle. "Bosniak" or "Albanian" is a form of brainwashing. Such conceptual labels are superimposed to obstruct peoples' actual relationship with external reality. However , I don't exempt 'Serb' or any other ethnic nationalitiy , religion , class , culture, or the like from this either. If it is valid to claim people as Serbs today based on some 500 years of history then why just 500 or 1,000? Whats objectively valid about 500 or 1,000? Even more importantly , how does reality verify it to the point of condoning murder and extermination of 'undesirables' you speak of, the so called 'genetically defective?' What about the conceptual label of Serb itself? Does Serb span back to the beginning of modern man? Surely Serbs are themselves a subculture of some older culture, lets say Iranians , if thats where the Serb name came from. I don't know why you're not clamoring for Serbs to subjugate themselves to an older conceptual ethnic label. You can't have it both ways and be expected to be taken seriously by any rational thinking human being. If certain people , as you claimed , are 'genetically defective,' why on earth would you seek to eliminate them? Isn't that a bit ridiculous? What is your justification? Are they not 'worthy' of the same morality you expect to shown to yourself? ( Side question , are you a Neo-Nazi or something of that sort?) Its especially ridiculous to initiate violence against the genetically defective. Any rational thinking human being would be compassionate or at least understanding. By 'punishing' them for their genetic defects you're being highly irrational and quite contradictory. You only punish them if you believe they are responsible for their genetic inferiority. In which case they wouldn't be genetically inferior because you're implying they have the ability to alter their state into something more preferable to you. A genetically defective person physiologically wouldn't be able to live up to your genetic standards so you could hardly blame it on them. Its like getting mad at a 3 year old that can't do calculus. Ok, if Albanian people are initiating violence against others in the name of some 'Albanianism' then those people actually doing and organizing the violence should be held responsible. I don't see how this translates into justifying going into some old Albanian lady's home and pumping her full of bullets. I can only understand self defense against people actually committing the violence against you. The justifications you're bringing up aren't even practical or logical. You're debating conceptual ethnic labels again. Sorry, I find this a bit hilarious. I've explained in quite a bit of detail why they are labels using logic , reason , and showing there is a lack of objective evidence showing that ethnic labels somehow have a true relationship to reality. They are delusions in the mind. If you want to counter my point, don't use faith, use reason. I explained to you have you based the concept of ethnicities as a superstructure on a foundation of other slippery slope concepts such as culture and tradition, which themselves are , of course , subjective. You're not rebelling against modernism, because I'm not talking about modernism, you're rebelling against rationality. Capitalism is about materialism ( not in the pejorative sense), individualism , and a consumer public. All of these attributes of capitalism have a direct true relationship with reality. Utilization and rational allocation of scarce material resources , only individuals exist as groups are concepts only, and consumption necessitates production and thus you have a system of voluntary exchange. Consumers are the masters and backbone of any free economic system. The part I bolded means you got my point. By this statement you yourself are inferring what I've been saying this whole time; culture , nationality, ethnicity , and religion are all superstructural concepts that exist in the mind only and have no actual true relationship to reality. They are mind delusions that happen to be very successful with the majority of the world, unfortunately. You're making a fallacy as well. You're making an appeal to consequence as well as an ad populum and appeal to common practice argument. None of these actually make the argument valid , much less , true or correct. Evidence? What makes you think the government turns the leaders into selfless, altruistic , non self-interested people? Are you suggesting power leads to altruism and it doesn't corrupt? How can a centralized institution 'plan' everyone's happiness or objectively measure social and interpersonal utility? If this were true then communism would be the most ideal system we would all be striving for. Do you even know what modernism is? If you did, you wouldn't associate my arguments with that of a modernist or postmodernist. As I said earlier, you're not angry with modernism , you're angry with rationality. Typically this would be the result of a deluded individual that believes reality is derived from his own concepts rather than the other way around. Culture , religion, nationalities , and quasi-mystical beliefs about the family are mental delusions and when you really think about it (rationally) you can see why the world is in the shape it is in.
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Post by fazlinho on Oct 27, 2008 2:39:51 GMT -5
Please, without Medjugorje and Neum BiH would be severely underfunded. The only underdeveloped part of Herceg-Bosna is the east side of Mostar. Everything from trade to banks depend on Croats. That is the only reason why they have so much say yet number so few. ROFL IF you are serious, than this is so sad that it doesn't even need an answer. I will only ask you: do you SERIOUSLY think that Neum is by some miracle (hey the gospa is near there it could be) the 2nd spot for tourism in BiH???
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Post by SKORIC on Oct 27, 2008 5:28:34 GMT -5
^ Fazla stop being an islamic extremist
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Post by Novus Dis on Oct 27, 2008 6:11:12 GMT -5
Now where's that Demuslifier?
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Zvone
Amicus
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Posts: 525
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Post by Zvone on Oct 27, 2008 7:20:50 GMT -5
Well then, could you give me the top 5 tourism spots in BiH. Rank them according to number of visitors. Thanks.
It seemed to me it would be Sarajevo, Mostar, Neum, Banja Luka, Medjugorje.
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Post by tito on Oct 27, 2008 8:56:24 GMT -5
Zvone, can you give us a logical explanation to your absurd claim that “without Medjugorje and Neum BiH would be severely underfunded” ;D
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Post by fazlinho on Oct 27, 2008 13:48:55 GMT -5
Well then, could you give me the top 5 tourism spots in BiH. Rank them according to number of visitors. Thanks. It seemed to me it would be Sarajevo, Mostar, Neum, Banja Luka, Medjugorje. I would say Sarajevo Medjugorje and Mostar, from my experience I've never heard of foreigners who were "omg I so wanna visit Banja Luka!!". The only "tourism" Neum gets is from Bosniaks who want to see the seaside of their country. You could say it's BiH that keeps Neum alive, meaning that if there were no Bosniaks, there would be no economy in Neum. The tourism BiH gets is TOTALLY different from the one of Croatia.
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highduke
Amicus
Instigator / Scholar
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Posts: 3,687
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Post by highduke on Oct 28, 2008 14:28:48 GMT -5
Kane
Whatever. Your Achiles Heel remains: modern ideas have created failed societies based on descreet individuals. Traditional ideas create civilization & solidarity based on collective transcendence of discreet individuality using culture to maintain order.
Yes, those societies run the risk of degenerating into abusive dictatorships that eventually sell out CULTURE to business interests and degenerate after adopting principles like yours as a substitute for culture.
If you were not the pittiful pseudo-intelectual runt you must be with your Absolute Nihilist & Reductionist approach to perception, you'd kill yourself because you're 80% water & your thoughts & personality & emotions don't exist in Reality. Drown yourself and merge with the Sea; you are worthless. But you stay alive going from one distraction to another, existing just to preserve the body, the only thing existing in Reality. Your identity is your own illusion. You are lonely & confused. Go kill youself or kill time on another forum. Only a loser & a coward wants to be a 'discreet individual'.
But since youre not a Serb, I wont waste anymore time on you than I have already. Adios!
So, here's what you're gonna do now: you'll find some pathetically transparant retort & ramble on about it for 10 paragraphs & fail at justifying not applying your Reductionist principles to their Absolute conclusion. Oh, I misunderstood your principles, did I? Go fvck yourself. Start typing those excuses, boy.
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Zvone
Amicus
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Posts: 525
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Post by Zvone on Oct 28, 2008 14:48:33 GMT -5
OMG I soo want to se Banja Luka. I got that from the number of hotels in that city.
A lot of people that visit Dalmatia come up to Neum because it is cheaper, I did it a couple of times. And Medjugorje, well, a lot of pilgrims come.
You are right Osmano, using "underfunded" in the context of BiH is an oxymoron.
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Post by Arthur Kane on Oct 28, 2008 23:59:52 GMT -5
Are you making another baseless claim? Do you have evidence of this? All modern and relatively free societies base rights on the individual , not the collective. Such ideas crystalized only a couple centuries ago with the rise of classical liberalism and capitalism. Its is no coincidence that modern science accompanied this movement. These ideas work in reality because they are consistent with it. We have the rise of modern medicine , technology ( which you using now to read this) and life for the common man became a lot less s**tty. Any system which claims that 'collectives' have rights that not only exceed, but contradict the rights of the individuals that make up that collective is irrational , immoral , and impracticle. If the 'collective' could have rights greater than that of the individuals that it consists of then socialism would be the ideal. Socialism , for example , claims that individuals may not own the means of production but the collective may. Do you not see how absurd this is? At the end of the day someone must dispose of resources and only individuals can do this in reality. To claim its 'society' or the collective owning the means of production is nothing more than a elite few individuals enslaving all others to their whims and feeding them kool aid to justify that rule. Its exactly the same as saying you may not peel individual oranges but you can only peal aggregates of oranges. In contrast, traditional ideas , especially based on culture and religion, have been utter failures when actually tried or unchecked. Its no surprise as they are internally inconsistent as culture , nation , class, and religion are used in promoting false morality and moral absolutes. Culture which claims moral absolutes is certainly intended to destroy skepticism , doubt , rational thought , and individuality. It is a form of mind control , it primes you to lick the boots of your rulers with full devotion. Hitler did this quite effectively. It is because culture is not based on anything objective , its just whim by the Atillas and witchdoctors that seek to enslave society and rebel against rationality. You seek to enslave yourself to the whims of your masters. Culture which claims moral absolutes is not only used to maintain order , its a tool to enslave minds, like yours. Collective ideals divorced from reality lead to dictatorships. Individually minded people wouldn't fall easily prey to the drum beat of the few who seek to exploit through promotion of false morality by adherence to irrational concepts of nations , class , culture , religion , etc. This is exactly why scientists remain skeptical of supernatural , morally hypocritical , contradictory, abnoxious , and baseless postive claims of the Faithful. Business interests , when not tainted by government interests, reflect real public interest. No rationally minded person would seek to 'replace' culture but rather simply to expose culture that claims absolutes ( especially moral ones). Its like saying we seek to replace religion with science and the two aren't even in the same category. One is based on reality , the other is not. Listen you deluded loon , you're projecting now. It seems like you don't even know how to properly interpret an argument. I am not a nihilist or even existentialist. I think a fair degree of nihilism is healthy for everyone but within the boundries of reason. Everyone's inner Nihil is like a built in bullsh*t detector and theres a lot of bullsh*t out there like the pseudo-intellectual garbage you are dumping. You make statements you claim are 'scientific' such as other nations being 'genetically defective' and of course , you can't back it up with any actual scientific publishings. Just because concepts don't exist in reality doesn't mean concepts can't be valid. Concepts help us organize and categorize sensual data gathered from reality. Concepts are valid so long as they don't contradict reality. Why is this the case ? Because concepts are imperfectly derived , through the senses , from instances of the behavior of matter and energy in material reality. It is not the other way around , concepts don't trump reality like they seem to do in your deluded mind. Right , because you're getting your a$$ handed to you and you're realizing you're deluded about reality. And you haven't actually addressed any argument. You simply regressed into personal attacks and ad homs. This is a clear sign of a frustrated person who doesn't want to admit he's deluded. Much like a religious person rebels when they realize their faith-based claims are highly likely to be false. The earth isn't flat anymore, highduke.
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highduke
Amicus
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Post by highduke on Oct 29, 2008 14:28:43 GMT -5
Budala ne razume pojam kulture, nacije, etnicke svesti i vere jer je obican zapadnjak: mesavina raznih doseljenih imigranata pa hoce sve nas da ubedi da su sve te stvari 'nemoralne' na osnovu iskljucivo materijalisticke interpretacije nauke, morala i objektivnosti kojima ni on nije 100% veran kad ugrozavaju njegov licni stav. Ne mrzi nas nego mrzi pojam kolektivne svesti i sve povezano jer je taj mentalitet nedostupan polutanima i mesancima.
S njim bi se slagali Mladjan Dinkic i Ceda Narkoman. Bez kulture, nacije, etnicke svesti i vere, porodica se raspada i svi postaju radnici, kupci i potrosaci i usamljeni pojedinci s jednim ili dvoje 'dobrih prijatelja' koji vecno tragaju za zabavom jer je takav zivot beznacajan. Ali kako to sve objasniti jednom ogranicenom brbljivom kretenu koji nikad nije ziveo u drustvenom poredku u kojem je plemensko-rodovska zajednica jos uvek jaka?
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Post by Arthur Kane on Oct 29, 2008 18:58:54 GMT -5
So you're going to resort to babbling in Serbian? Figures. Seems like you can't hold your water well in argumentation. I 'understand' the concepts of culture, nation , ethnic awareness, and religion. When these concepts claim absolutes ( particularly moral ones) that are contradictory to reality and/or have no foundation grounded in reality then the probability of them yielding any truth value is very near zero. When you base an 'ought' ( a normative) applicable to external reality ( other people/things) on the grounds of being 'Serb,' and its based only on being 'Serb,' then it is simply enslavement to whim as it has nothing to do with objectivity.
As far as being a typical westerner like Ceda and Mladjan, I don't even know who those people are. 'Westerner' based on what? I am just as critical of 'Western culture' as any other. And don't be a dolt , any proper interpretation of science is materialistic. Science deals with the natural material world (i.e. reality), psychology deals with the mind , philosophy deals with the correlation between the mind and reality. Since concepts are derived from sensual reality , concepts ( i.e. the mind) must be submissive to reality in order for the mind's concepts to hold any validity. Not that hard to understand is it?
I am no more 'mixed' than you are. The 'mixing' is only in your mind. The only 'true mix' can be those people which have sharply defining physical characteristics from two 'racially' different parents. I am 'white' and I am fairly certain you are. Your genetic blueprint says nothing about 'Serbian,' its just a code for the physical structure of your body just like mine is. We might even be the same blood type.
You know , if you weren't so deluded about reality you might be a half-decent and keenly intelligent kind of guy. Its a damn shame you exhausted so much of your intellectual energy on nonsense.
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highduke
Amicus
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Post by highduke on Oct 30, 2008 14:25:25 GMT -5
Sad sam te zakacio!
E pa zasto nisi rekao da si Srbin picka ti materina lazljiva? Znao sam. Ovo na Srpskom sam namerno da bi te otkrio. Izrode, picko izdajnicka, kao protivis se iluzijama a predstavljas se kao zapadnjak 'Arthur Kane'. Al si pickica jebote. Dosao si da zemljake zamajavas. Znas li koliko si gadan? I patetican. Kladim se da pizda ne ume da mi uzvrati na srpskom! Mrzis sebe i ljubomoran si jer nemas kulturu i trudis se da je ubijes kod svojih zemljaka da bi sebi ublazio bol. Ili si Siptar. Ko si, sta si?
I did a background check on your traitor a$$. Your posts revolve around Serbs & balije. You must be 1/2 ustasa. You could be humiliated ex-forum member TLR, armed with lamer tactics looking for retribution. Time will tell.
Your Reductionism isn't wrong. You're just a hypocrite for not carrying it out to the Absolute conclusion (suicide) that you demand of others. IF you wont kill yourself then find an ideal. If you can't relate to an ideal, then don't con people. Absolute Reductionism is just something that must be transcended once it is realized, not dwelled on. Nobody wants your boring, limited ideology; even you force it on yourself.
When I walk down the street of my native village in S. Serbia I'm concious that 1/12 villagers are related to me, that my ancestors have been living there for 3 centuries. My friends are all descendants of my ancestors' friends. When I farm & tend cattle, I'm doing the same 7000 year old job my ancestors did. All my neighbors are relatives. I speak the same language my ancestors spoke for 1400 years. 1/5 people are totaly selfish, 3 neutral & 1 totaly unselfish. That is a better Ideal than a society of 'discreet individuals'.
If you can't understand that this is BETTER than being a 'discreet individual' in a society of 'discreet individuals' - then you are missing out on a vital part of the Human Experience: the inner peace that comes with a sense of belonging & conectedness to others that ONLY comes from being bound to your environment & its people by blood & the Common Mentality engendered when a small group of people whose ancestors have interbred & experienced the same historical pressures, live in a small place where 80% of people know each other.
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Post by Arthur Kane on Oct 30, 2008 17:09:40 GMT -5
Now I zakacio! E and why did not you said that Serb picka Materina you lying? I knew. This in Serbian I intentionally to and out. Degenerate, pick treacherous, as protivis to believe a predstavljas as a westerner 'Arthur Kane. But you fucking pickica. Have you come to compatriot zamajavas. Znas you how much you nauseous? And pathetic. Bet that pizda did not know how we respond to the Serbian! Mrzis themselves and are jealous because it had no culture and trudis that kill with his countryman would have to ublazio pain. Or you SIPTAR. Who are you, what are you doing? Now in Spanish: Ahora zakacio! E, y por qué no le dice que serbia picka Materina usted mintiendo? Lo sabía. Este serbio en I intencionalmente y fuera. Degenerar, recoger traicionero, como protivis para creer como una predstavljas un occidental 'Arthur Kane. Pero maldito pickica. ¿Has venido a zamajavas compatriota. Znas cuánto le náuseas? Y patético. Apostar que la pizda no sabía cómo responder a los serbios! Mrzis sí mismos y están celosos porque no tenía la cultura y la trudis que matan con su compatriota tendría que ublazio dolor. O usted SIPTAR. ¿Quién es usted, ¿qué estás haciendo? Now in Russian: Теперь я zakacio! E и почему ты не сказал, что сербская picka Materina вы лежали? Я знал. Это по-сербски я умышленно и OUT. Вырожденные, выберите предатели, как protivis верить predstavljas как westerner "Артур Кейн. Но вы чертовски pickica. Ты пришел к соотечественникам zamajavas. Znas сколько вы тошнотворный? И жалкий. Ставки pizda, что не знали, как нам реагировать на сербском! Mrzis себя и ревновать, поскольку у нее нет культуры и trudis, что убить его соотечественник придется ublazio боль. Или вы SIPTAR. Кто вы, что вы делаете? See, I was able to understand you because of translate.google.com/translate_t#. Its not a perfect translation but I think I could figure it out. I think you were cowering behind Serbian because you didn't want to address my arguments in English. You tried to set me up in a 'trap' so you can resort to personal attacks and continue the fallacious arguments.
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Post by Arthur Kane on Oct 30, 2008 17:40:37 GMT -5
Sad sam te zakacio!
E pa zasto nisi rekao da si Srbin picka ti materina lazljiva? Znao sam. Ovo na Srpskom sam namerno da bi te otkrio. Izrode, picko izdajnicka, kao protivis se iluzijama a predstavljas se kao zapadnjak 'Arthur Kane'. Al si pickica jebote. Dosao si da zemljake zamajavas. Znas li koliko si gadan? I patetican. Kladim se da pizda ne ume da mi uzvrati na srpskom! Mrzis sebe i ljubomoran si jer nemas kulturu i trudis se da je ubijes kod svojih zemljaka da bi sebi ublazio bol. Ili si Siptar. Ko si, sta si?I did a background check on your traitor a$$. Your posts revolve around Serbs & balije. You must be 1/2 ustasa. You could be humiliated ex-forum member TLR, armed with lamer tactics looking for retribution. Time will tell. Your Reductionism isn't wrong. You're just a hypocrite for not carrying it out to the Absolute conclusion (suicide) that you demand of others. IF you wont kill yourself then find an ideal. If you can't relate to an ideal, then don't con people. Absolute Reductionism is just something that must be transcended once it is realized, not dwelled on. Nobody wants your boring, limited ideology; even you force it on yourself. When I walk down the street of my native village in S. Serbia I'm concious that 1/12 villagers are related to me, that my ancestors have been living there for 3 centuries. My friends are all descendants of my ancestors' friends. When I farm & tend cattle, I'm doing the same 7000 year old job my ancestors did. All my neighbors are relatives. I speak the same language my ancestors spoke for 1400 years. 1/5 people are totaly selfish, 3 neutral & 1 totaly unselfish. That is a better Ideal than a society of 'discreet individuals'. If you can't understand that this is BETTER than being a 'discreet individual' in a society of 'discreet individuals' - then you are missing out on a vital part of the Human Experience: the inner peace that comes with a sense of belonging & conectedness to others that ONLY comes from being bound to your environment & its people by blood & the Common Mentality engendered when a small group of people whose ancestors have interbred & experienced the same historical pressures, live in a small place where 80% of people know each other. You made a fallacy right away. I responded to a post written in Serbian so lets call that X. So you attempted to reason making a fallacy. You saw Kane responded to X , therefore , Kane is Y! How do you know its not Z? In other words you assumed because I replied to a Serbian post, I am Serbian or Balkanian. But you didn't bother to think of the other possibilities. I could have studied Serbian or I could of translated it on a website , which in fact , is what I did. You're talking about nihilism. Nihilism is ultimately a tautology and meaningless in itself. The logical conclusion you draw off of nihilism( more specifically ontological nihilism) is that nihilism is nihilism. Meaning to existence is formed by the individual as all things with are valued , including life , are subjective. To imply there is an absolute conclusion implies gnosticism. We don't know everything but we do have evidence about somethings ( such as reality) which points to probabilities. I don't know if a 'god' exists in some alternate universe but all the gods postulated thus far have no evidence supporting their existence in known reality. In other words , the probability of god's existence is very, very low. Ignoring the evidence presented to you by reality and instead holding to your concepts , when contradicted by evidence , is irrational. The rest of your arguments are fallacious. They don't address any of my arguments but rather they are appeals to emotion , appeals to tradition , and appeals to common practice. You recognize that you're related to people in your Serbian village. OK , of course you are. You're related to everyone else too if you understand anything about the human genome. The only difference is that you probably have a closer proximity of relationship ( i.e. a less distant common ancestor) with those people than with some others. But if you're proud to claim relationships based on genetics , and even derive your sense of morality from that, then why don't you make that universal? Why stop at only one or two common ancestors? How is common ancestry valid up to a certain mutation but no longer valid with other , possibly more distant , mutations. It could be the case you have more recent common ancestry with others that are not Serbs as well. You might be related more to a Romanian than a Serb in the north for example. I don't know how you maintain the validity of your 'Serb' ancestry claim in that case. All you admitted to me here is that these ideas make you 'feel better' about yourself and you 'feel better' being attached to bronze age traditions. It doesn't indicate that any of those arguments have a relationship to any kind of objective truth. But thats fine, you can think what you want , deluded or not. The problem comes when you use these arguments to assert some kind of objective truth, when you take those values and claim other people in external reality should be binded to them. Then you have to present a case thats grounded in objective evidence which you have failed to do.
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Post by lozonjare on Oct 30, 2008 17:52:53 GMT -5
Excellent posts Arthur Kane
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Post by sweetnugs on Oct 30, 2008 18:11:13 GMT -5
Props Arhur!
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highduke
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Post by highduke on Oct 30, 2008 21:01:40 GMT -5
Yes you tricked me with a translator.
Pat yourself on the back. It'll be the last time.
"All you admitted to me here is that these ideas make you 'feel better' about yourself and you 'feel better' being attached to bronze age traditions. It doesn't indicate that any of those arguments have a relationship to any kind of objective truth. But thats fine, you can think what you want , deluded or not. The problem comes when you use these arguments to assert some kind of objective truth, when you take those values and claim other people in external reality should be binded to them. Then you have to present a case thats grounded in objective evidence which you have failed to do".
The OBJECTIVE TRUTH is HONOR, the evidence that Honour is Objective Truth is Common Sense.
The Qualitative Superiority of Honor vs. dishonour in promoting Maximum Emotional and Physical Health vs. Less are what motivate my preferences in Ethnic Identity & Sociology as I've been elaborating them in this thread.
Let me explain my...
PREFERENCE FOR TRADITIONAL, FAMILY-BASED SOCIETY:
My choice for a traditional society is based on a preference for a physically and emotionally healthier life surrounded by more loyal, reliable & HONORABLE people. It is OBJECTIVELY BETTER for a Human to feel physically and emotionally healthier than less healthy.
Objectively speaking, people are happier and more relaxed when people around them act honorably than dishonorably & are happier and more relaxed to be a part of an honorable group than a dishonorable one because dishonorable people tend to be d|cks who can't be trusted.
This is tied to my...
HOSTILITY TO MULTICULTURALISM, INDIVIDUALISM, LIBERALISM & MODERNITY IN GENERAL:
Living among people who are as genetically close to you as possible without getting disgenic promotes a sense of FAMILY between unrelated ethnic kinsmen based on ANCESTRY, COMMON CULTURE and the COMMON MENTALITY it engenders. THIS is impossible in Multicultural, Individualist, Liberal, Modern failed societies.
Living among people who are as genetically close to you as possible without getting disgenic promotes a sense of FAMILY between related ethnic kinsmen AND results in happier families and more meaningful social relations by actually repressing selfish instincts that make us think of ourselves as "discreet individuals". THIS is impossible in Multicultural, Individualist, Liberal, Modern failed societies.
And Happier families are objectively beter than unhappy families.
Which leads me to...
STOPPING AT SERB CULTURE:
The reason why I stop at Serb Culture & Serb identity and not an ancestral Roman, Illyrian, Vincan, Gravettian, Negro or Bushman identity is because the first 4 ethnic identities are dead & cannot be resurrected in their true pure, original form & because genetic distance & phenotypic considerations make going Negro Or busman impractical.
And because I have no other choice, I have a...
PREFERENCE FOR ORTHODOX SERB ETHNIC IDENTITY:
My preference for Orthodox Serb Identity is objective also, because it is honorable to stay loyal to your identity instead discarding it for money & power privileges & intimidation by scheming foreigns and then attacking those who didn't give in BECAUSE - selling out for money & power to foreigners and then attacking those who didn't as inter-generational puppets of those same foreign powers, is not honorable.
It is OBJECTIVELY better to be part of an honorable group than a dishonorable group like balije, poturice & orthodox izrodi.
Whatever it may mean, I use Honor to mean the evaluation of a person's trustworthiness and social status based on that individual's espousals and actions. Honor is deemed exactly what determines a person's character: whether or not the person reflects honesty, respect, integrity, or fairness. Accordingly, individuals are assigned worth and stature based on the harmony of their actions, code of honor, and that of the society at large.
Not all individual Serbs act honorably. Those 1/5 Orthodox Serbs in my village who are total d|cks deserve ostracism just like their balije, poturice & orthodox izrodi counterparts unless they return to their roots.
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Post by sweetnugs on Oct 31, 2008 1:16:50 GMT -5
Halo ba.. jebe se nekome za ovim oko cega ti gubis san tokom noci. Kako ne mozes sebi da dodjes bolan nebio pa jesil tolko puko da nemas trunke zdravog uma.
Ohladi zivota ti
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