highduke
Amicus
Instigator / Scholar
60%
Posts: 3,687
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Post by highduke on Oct 11, 2008 18:13:14 GMT -5
Check out these media reports from the last 3 weeks:
You can just feel the tension building up. Once Republika Srpska seperates with Russia's help, nationalism in Serbia will rise. The EU will demand Belgrade severs ties with Srpska if we ever want to join the EU. Serbians will not accept that and Banja Luka will probably bring in Russian bases sooner than Belgrade, but Belgrade will soon follow.
This is all part of Russia's foreign policy objectives. First Georgia, then Bosnia; it's all INAT against the US-EU-NATO hypocritical foreign policy.
Good-bye lojave poturice. Once Srpska goes, the Ustase are gonna leave you, too and join CRO. Then we'll have you right where we want you.
By bye lojave balije!!!
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Post by Novus Dis on Oct 11, 2008 18:25:30 GMT -5
It would be nice but I doubt he is serious about it. He has been parroting the same line for years and its merely a populist ploy.
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Post by givemebeer on Oct 11, 2008 18:44:42 GMT -5
where do you want us?
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Post by tito on Oct 12, 2008 8:54:55 GMT -5
In the Brcko District of Bosnia and Hercegovina, with our American bager-belajs
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Post by karabin on Oct 12, 2008 9:26:08 GMT -5
We'll see what happens. I am sure the Russians have an eye on RS and Serbia atm. It is their last chance to get a piece of the cake in the Balkans. They missed out on this in the early 90s due to obvious reasons but now that they are back and strong I am sure they would not let this one slide. The have already demonstrated what they can do with Georgia and RS seems to be the perfect target in the Balkans. I would personally like to see RS work with Russia and Russian bases over the yanks and EU any day.
I also wonder why Russia does not use RS to install their own Missiles there. Pretty much that would ensure RS security as attacking RS would mean attacking Russia. I am confident they are waiting for foreign troops to leave before they realize this.
All in all BiH is dead. Just like all of you non Serbs wanted out of Yugoslavia for a couple of green bucks we now want out of BiH. I am confident Croats want out just as bad as serbs do only they always wait for a back stab. There is no future there as long as the three ethnic groups stay under one roof.
Mi smo zadovoljni sa RS a za vas ostale boli nas kurac!!!
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Post by tito on Oct 12, 2008 9:47:47 GMT -5
Those who don’t like it, who are still dreaming of a failed project of Greater Serbia, or some Serbian state in Bosnia, can go somewhere else, but they can’t take with them an inch of Bosnian territory!
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Post by Pejoni on Oct 12, 2008 10:00:33 GMT -5
What has Bosnia done to you? Try Kosova, you have been talking for years how the mighty Serbian Army wil just roll on and kick out the separatist ppl.
...exactlay, you cant even with Russia for once having som money, you simply cant.
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Post by givemebeer on Oct 12, 2008 10:02:17 GMT -5
Well see what happens. I am sure the Russians have an eye on RS and Serbia atm. It is their last chance to get a piece of the cake in the Balkans. They missed out on this in the early 90s due to obvious reasons but now that they are back and strong I am sure they would not let this one slide. The have already demonstrated what they can do with Georgia and RS seems to be the perfect target in the Balkans. I would personally like to see RS work with Russia and Russian bases over the yanks and EU any day. I also wonder why Russia does not use RS to install their own Missiles there. Pretty much that would ensure RS security as attacking RS would mean attacking Russia. I am confident they are waiting for foreign troops to leave before they realize this. All in all BiH is dead. Just like all of you non Serbs wanted out of Yugoslavia for a couple of green bucks we now want out of BiH. I am confident Croats want out just as bad as Serbs do only they always wait for a back stab. There is no future there as long as the three ethnic groups stay under one roof. Mi smo zadovoljni sa RS a za vas ostale boli nas kurac!!! Ehem, if Russia needed a place in the Balkans, why would it pick a god forsaken region in a landlocked state, when it would make much more sense to have Bases in Serbia or Montenegro, not to mention that Russian power projection is at the current time limited to the former soviet union, in terms of larger land forces operation, and why on earth would Russians die for Serbs? My God, you are as bright as the Muslims who think that either the West, or the Islamic world has some strange obligation to save them from things... They are not under one roof mate, in case you have not noticed Bosnia is de facto divided into ethnic enclaves, and the best period of time in Bosnian history was when the ethnic groups lived under the same roof, and even intermarried..... First of all, I would like to say that these talks about the abolition of the RS, as well as the separation of it, is just made by politicians in BiH who would like to, well, get more votes, and you seem to be falling for it, secondly, when can we expect the arrival of the first Serb diaspora brigade, I expect that you diaspora Serbs will be the first to die for the war profiteer RS government seen as you love it so much, you are gonna teach us poturce balije a lesson! The best thing would be to have things the way they are now, with real social-democrats ruling in both enteties, after lessening nationalism a bit, and after building the place up again, first then would it make sense to talk about the power sharing/enteties/centralization/what ever of BIH.....Anything else at the moment is asking for an even more meaningless war...
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Post by karabin on Oct 12, 2008 11:00:56 GMT -5
It is not about "if Russia needed" it is about "Russia needs" a place in the Balkans. Should they fail to secure their "seat" in either RS or Srbija they can then pretty much kiss goodbye their influence and therefore interest(s) in the Balkan region. With Croatia, FBiH, Romania, Bulgaria, FYROM, Montenegro and Albania under NATO and therefore USA influence RS and/or Serbia is Russia's only bid and this time around I am sure they won't let it slip. If you are still unaware as to what Russia's interests may be in the Balkans then you simply need to look at the US actions in the region. As far as Russians dying for Serbs goes, who said anything about dying? Russia's presence would just reassure that no-one would attack RS. If we were to go by your logic, then we would need to ask ourselves: Why would americans die for albanians? Why would americans die for South Vietnamese, Why would americans die to "free" the iraqie people, why would americans die to in the Korean war, why would americans die in Kuwait? ? It is not about dying for another nation, it is dying for the country's interest(s). Americans have no problem with that so why would Russians? I therefore fail to see your point. Other than pushing this topic too far with some idea about Russians dying I merely meant that with Russian Missiles and therefore bases in place NATO would not attack. Oh and if you have not gotten the point by now, I am not implying that Russians would do all this out of love for the Serbian people. We all by now know it is out of interest(s). And just like bosnian muslims and albanians would love to have americans in their country over Russians, with us serbs it is exactly the other way around. Yes I am ware of that mate. I am implying to the future about some absurd idea of thinking that we could live united under one and the same roof as in a completely centralized government. That is idea is nothing more than a fairytale. The recent elections have shown that we are as ethnically divided as we have ever been. Think about it, how would you get Serbs to vote for a muslim party and vice versa!?! It would not work. Furthermore, given that the Bosnian Muslims are the majority in BiH and they too are ethnically voting, that would mean that Muslim parties would be constantly in power. That further strengthens my argument that this idea of united BiH is lacking reality. You talk about how good it was when we all three ethnic groups lived under one roof. Whilst you are right about that you seem to be ignoring one big factor. That one roof was under another bigger roof which was called Yugoslavia. Apart from Serbs all of you muslims, croats and slovenians voted against that Yugoslavia and therefore one roof. I therefore see no reason why we should keep a united roof in BiH now. It is your delusion if you fail to see as to how dead the pre 1992 BiH is. I am not falling for it. I very well see how politics in BiH are used hence why I said We'll see what happens in my post. I read through some of your previous posts and I agree with you when you say how politicians use this hatred to their own advantage to fill their own pockets. And whilst that may be true, the hatred is there, the scars of war are there, Bosnian Muslims voted against Serbs when they voted for their own "independence" ultimately helping destroy Yugoslavia. Why on earth should we want to be together with you?? What war are you talking about? There will be no more wars in BiH I can reassure you that. If RS separates then it will do so peacefully. What lessons are you talking about? There is no need to teach you any lessons. You have taught yourself when you proclaimed "independence" in 1992. You have punished yourselves bad enough. Whilst I once again agree with some of your ideas you constantly keep on ignoring our balkan mentality, the recent war and bloodshed, the fact that we were killing each other like animals, the fact that we have in recent history proven that three ethnic groups and religions cannot coexist under one and the same roof. Uniting again is simply asking for another war somewhere down the track. It simply won't work so what is so hard for you to understand about that.
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Post by givemebeer on Oct 12, 2008 11:30:43 GMT -5
My point was about the RS, the RS holds no significance, neither does FBiH, perhaps Russia would want to make Serbia its vassal state some day, but if they stationed missiles there, you do see, that this would be negative for Serbia and Serbs, it would make the Balkans a nuclear fall out zone should the Russians and the West ever kill each other...
The only possible solution for BiH would be Federal units, so that ethnic voting over voting would not be possible, but not Federal units as the ones we have no, but non-ethnic Federal units, a totally centralized BiH is not possible... As I said, the best thing atm is to cool things down, and perhaps make a law banning nationalistic statements in the media, in western Europe one would get arrested sooner or alter for saying things like our politicians are saying I am saying that this has nothing to do with etnich groups, but with politicians, the current politicans just use nationalism, who they them selfs make, so to "hide" that, we are the poorest place in Europe... And Yugoslavia fell apart, when no political force was present who wanted to keep it the way it was, it is not like poeple woke up one day and wantted their own nation-states.. by the late 80ties, you had Serb-Centralists, and Bosniac/Croat/Sloven seperatism, with such polecies, what happened was unavoidable
If you get what I am going at, then why not be against it, and it was not "we" who destroyed Yugoslavia, just like it is not "you" who is talking about a referendum for the RS, unless you are in the SNSD. The reason Yugoslavia fell apart is that by the late 80ties, there were no politicians with any influence who wanted to keep Yugoslavia they way it had been under Tito's time, I am not talking about having one country, but the same government, Milosevic wanted one man one vote, and would let Slovenia go, meaning that "Serbs" would rule all, this is much the same as how BOsniac politicians would want a BiH with one person per vote, that would mean that Bosniac parties would rule. Yugoslavia fell apart a long time before the referendums, as I said, BiH is not united, and is "nationalist", seen as no anti-nationalist force is relevant on the political scene, who do you think it is who suffers from this? It is not those that make these statements, it is ordinary people ho get jumped for having the wrong name in the wrong place..
why on earth would you want to be with us? here is why, unless nationalism stops in Bosnia one would never know what "group" will get the upper hand, so, it might be that the outcome of seperation would be Serbian Nation State with half or even more of Bosnia in it, but it might just as well be that the Croato-Muslims team up and make the NDH II, or even more realistically, not much would change, but there would just be another war.. Ultimatly a working "united" Bosnian state would have to have friendly relations with a non-nationalist serbian government and open borders, if most Serbs were ever to accept beeing part of a not-divided BiH, the same goes for Croatia...
Peacefully, yeah, just like Bosnia peacefully separated from what remained of Yugoslavia, only thing that would be different is that the roles would be reversed, as the OSBiH would be the equal of the caricature JNA of 1990..
If you agree with some of my ideas, then why go against them, ultimately it would be random BOsniac/Serbs/Croats who would suffer from a new war, and a new war would happen if one continued with this, thats the thing, you understand what I am talking about, but you are still against it, does not.t some random Serb and Bosniac have more in common then their "leaders", and don't our "leaders" have more in common with each other, then we with them, they are not the ones that will starve, nor are they the ones starving now. In the RS, how much money do war invalids get? If it is remotely the same as in the Federation, then you get what I am going at, the people who talk about abolishment and separation, are the ones, who will sit in their armchairs, they are not suffering now, nor would they in a war...
As I said, if you get that they are just filling their own pockets over ordinary peoples suffering, then why support such insanity..
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Post by fazlinho on Oct 12, 2008 11:39:00 GMT -5
I'm glad plans are being made for this. This is all going in the right direction.
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Post by karabin on Oct 12, 2008 11:39:32 GMT -5
Hey Bog,
do you mind just fixing up your last post? It is a little bit messy (the quotes). I like some of your points. I will kindly reply to you tomorrow. Little bit late now. Cheers.
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Post by kapetan on Oct 12, 2008 13:55:25 GMT -5
Dodik talks alot, I don't think he has the balls for much though. However if he's forced into attempting this, it will be a s**tstorm. Serbs don't have many friends other then Russia as usual, whilemostof the West is for a BiH in one piece like it always was. And they constantly talk about abolishing entities, and in return that's why Dodik constantly threatens his stuff.
Tension and hate is probly at an all time high. The first time it wasn't hatred for the most part, but there was tension. There wasn't as much hate as there is now cuz that was before all the things happend that now give us reasons to hate. So in my opinion if it comes to armed conflict, and Europe lets us run wild like last time, even for a short period of time, it'll be quite simply a s**t storm of epic proportions. I doubt it would ever last as long as the last one, but smaller attacks and maybe even terrorism would happen all the time, and for a long time. Despite what Serbs feel they didn't really face "radical Jihadist muslims" the first time. This time however some of these people could definetly be called that, even if it's tiny groups like the Wahabis.
I don't wish death on anyone, but I don't see that ending well for the Serb population at all. There's no shortage of arms this time around and no shortage of incentive. We might even come out as the "bad guys" this time around.
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Post by Sh1 Shonić on Oct 12, 2008 14:17:57 GMT -5
I don't wish death on anyone, but I don't see that ending well for the Serb population at all. There's no shortage of arms this time around and no shortage of incentive. We might even come out as the "bad guys" this time around. Овај твој део поста ме веома подсеђа на овај говор (само замени муслимански са српски): "Nemojte da mislite da nećete odvesti Bosnu i Hercegovinu u pakao a muslimanski narod možda u nestanak jer muslimanski narod ne može da se odbrani ako bude rat ovdje.“
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Post by kapetan on Oct 12, 2008 14:21:32 GMT -5
I don't wish death on anyone, but I don't see that ending well for the Serb population at all. There's no shortage of arms this time around and no shortage of incentive. We might even come out as the "bad guys" this time around. Овај твој део поста ме веома подсеђа на овај говор (само замени муслимански са српски): "Nemojte da mislite da nećete odvesti Bosnu i Hercegovinu u pakao a muslimanski narod možda u nestanak jer muslimanski narod ne može da se odbrani ako bude rat ovdje.“I can see how you would say that but I promise you I'm not the leader of any group, nor do I wish the extinction of anyone. But it's reality, that things will get UGLY if it happens. I never said Serbs can't defend themselves, I said now both are armed well. Then again the amount of ethnic cleansing wouldn't even be comparable cuz both are already pretty much gone fromeachothers teritory. Unless one manages to invade the other and start booting people.
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highduke
Amicus
Instigator / Scholar
60%
Posts: 3,687
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Post by highduke on Oct 12, 2008 20:51:20 GMT -5
Lajcak takes Dodik's remarks seriously and so should everyone here since Lajcak's a bigger authority on Bosnia's political situation than anyone here.
Rest assured, Srpska will not seperate without full 100% Russian military and political backing and when Srpska seperates, you know they will have secured that support.
Russia's actions in Georgia suggest that Bosnia is just a second phase of Russia's foreign policy. That means that our lojave poturice will fare just like the Georgians and Chechens.
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Post by SKORIC on Oct 13, 2008 0:29:12 GMT -5
Serbs feel that because there were 6000 of them fighting with yous. We dont feel that all of you were Jihadists. But when you see Alija with them parading on tv ofcourse people were gonna think like that.
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Post by fazlinho on Oct 13, 2008 3:48:56 GMT -5
Serbs feel that because there were 6000 of them fighting with yous. We dont feel that all of you were Jihadists. But when you see Alija with them parading on tv ofcourse people were gonna think like that. Even if there were that many, which is BS, but whatever, the ABiH consisted of more than 200000 soldiers at it's peak. less than 3% = what a big jihaddist army it was!!
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Post by tito on Oct 13, 2008 4:15:52 GMT -5
because there were 6000 of them fighting with yous. I think the number 6000 refers to or includes all the Bosniak-dominated Muslim Brigades/"Muslimanske Brigade", which had a religious character. But that should not really matter since all muslim believers in defence wars are per definition "jihadists" ;D Anyway Kapetan has a point since the wehabist movement didn’t exist in Yugoslavia 1991-1992. Rest assured, Srpska will not seperate Correct!
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Post by bob1389 on Oct 13, 2008 4:20:02 GMT -5
kisa pada...
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