ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Dec 2, 2008 7:23:17 GMT -5
but u seem to not understand it novi. bulgarians do not equal bulgars. actually bulgarians mean eastern Balcan SLAVIC tribes that were NEVER Serbian. They were always in the Bulgarian group. How do u distinguish a Bulgarian slav from Serbian slav? By the language and if so that means Torlakians are Bulgarian slav. When I say Bulgarian I do not mean Bulgar. As u shouldnt. Didnt u saw that in your laughable books? well of course not Serbian authors would never say it (though they used to before Austia stole your Bosna), because they have their eyes on the southwest Bulgarians!
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Post by ljubotan on Dec 2, 2008 21:20:39 GMT -5
Ja bi preporucal da svite zborimo po svoj jezik/dijalekt, pa da vidimo kolko slicnosti imamo izmedu nas. Po moje, ja mislim deka mije od Tetovo zborimo izmesan jezik. Imamo malo od Srpsko, Bugarsko i naramno Makedonski jezici. Nasiat dijalekt je isti sa Gorancite, ali ipak nasata gramatika je vise blizo sa Bugarskiat jezik nego Srpskiat. Mije neoptrebujemo padezi kako u Srbiju. Jezik znaco mlogo kad trebe nekoj da identifikuja sa nekoa etnicka grupa. Ja kako znaem, mojato sela uvek zborele kako sto pisuam ovde. Ova neje 'stara Srpski' govor, i verovatno Srbite na formava mozev samo '60%' da razberev ova sto pisuam. Mislim deka 'Novi' ima da razbira vise, ali on je od Juzna Srbija i imal vise kontakt sa Makedonskiat dijalekt. Moj govor nema nisto slicno sa Srpskite dijalekti od bivse Jug, odsem toj u Kosovo i juzni-istocni del Srbije.
Ja licno bi sakal da ga znaem istorijata na moeto jezik, al za sega moram da priznaem deka imamo dosta slicnosti sa Bugarskiat jezik. Za Srbiat jezik mije teglimo sa akcentot, na primer, 'dobar dan' a ne 'dobar den'.
Ajde sega vie zborite pa vaseto jezik pa da vidimo koj i kako se razbiramo vize izmedu nas.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Dec 2, 2008 22:49:46 GMT -5
"actually bulgarians mean eastern Balcan SLAVIC tribes that were NEVER Serbian. They were always in the Bulgarian group. How do u distinguish a Bulgarian slav from Serbian slav? By the language and if so that means Torlakians are Bulgarian slav. When I say Bulgarian I do not mean Bulgar. As u shouldnt. Didnt u saw that in your laughable books? well of course not Serbian authors would never say it (though they used to before Austia stole your Bosna), because they have their eyes on the southwest Bulgarians!"
Timochani, Brancevci, Moravljani or the Dragovic are Bulgarian tribes?....l think you have your wires crossed ioan.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Dec 3, 2008 0:39:46 GMT -5
I'm telling you your dialect is pure Torlakian, old serbian. Remember Shar Planinac, speaks exactly like you.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Dec 3, 2008 0:57:49 GMT -5
"Ja bi preporucal da svite zborimo po svoj jezik/dijalekt, pa da vidimo kolko slicnosti imamo izmedu nas."
I think Ljubotan your going to see modern standard serbian will be closest to your local dialect of Tetovo region.
"Po moje, ja mislim deka mije od Tetovo zborimo izmesan jezik. Imamo malo od Srpsko, Bugarsko i naramno Makedonski jezici. Nasiat dijalekt je isti sa Gorancite, ali ipak nasata gramatika je vise blizo sa Bugarskiat jezik nego Srpskiat."
Oh Ljubotan l can't understand why you would say that even thou your language is 'mixed' with Bulgarian, Serbian and Standard Vardarian, its grammar is closer to Bulgarian than serbian?
"i verovatno Srbite na formava mozev samo '60%' da razberev ova sto pisuam."
Bro, l can't go on, l have some family who used to live in your dialectual regions from kosovo. l understood what you have written 100%.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Dec 3, 2008 2:46:21 GMT -5
Compare what Ljuboten said to Montenegrin Speech word by word (*and Serbian speech is closer to slavophone Macedonian speech versus Mont. one)
Ja bi preporucal da svite zborimo po svoj jezik/dijalekt, pa da vidimo kolko slicnosti imamo izmedu nas. *Ja bi preporucio da svi zborimo na svoj jezik/dijalekat, pa da vidimo koliko slicnosti imamo medju nama.
Po moje, ja mislim deka mije od Tetovo zborimo izmesan jezik. Imamo malo od Srpsko, Bugarsko i naramno Makedonski jezici. * Po mome, ja mislim de mi od Tetova zborimo izmijesan jezik. Imamo malo od Srpskog, Bugarskog i naravno Makedonskog jezika.
Nasiat dijalekt je isti sa Gorancite, ali ipak nasata gramatika je vise blizo sa Bugarskiat jezik nego Srpskiat. *Nas dijalekat je isti sa Goranskim, ali ipak nasa gramatika je bliza sa Bugarskim jezikom nego Srpskim.
Mije neoptrebujemo padezi kako u Srbiju. Jezik znaco mlogo kad trebe nekoj da identifikuja sa nekoa etnicka grupa. *Mi ne uptrebljavamo padeze kao u Srbiji. Jezik znaci mnogo kad treba nekog identifikovati sa nekom etnickom grupom.
Ja kako znaem, mojato sela uvek zborele kako sto pisuam ovde. *Ja kako znam, moje selo je uvijek zborilo kako Ja pisem ovdje.
Ova neje 'stara Srpski' govor, i verovatno Srbite na formava mozev samo '60%' da razberev ova sto pisuam. * Ovo nije 'staro-srpski' govor, i vjerovatno Srbi na forumu mogu samo '60%' da razumiju sto pisem.
Mislim deka 'Novi' ima da razbira vise, ali on je od Juzna Srbija i imal vise kontakt sa Makedonskiat dijalekt. * Mislim da 'Novi' razumije vise, ali on je iz juzne Srbije i imao je vise kontakta sa makedonskim dijalektom.
Moj govor nema nisto slicno sa Srpskite dijalekti od bivse Jug, odsem toj u Kosovo i juzni-istocni del Srbije. *Moj govor nema nisto slicno sa Srpskim dijalektima iz bivse Juge, osim toga sa Kosova i jugo-istocnog dijela Srbije.
Ja licno bi sakal da ga znaem istorijata na moeto jezik, al za sega moram da priznaem deka imamo dosta slicnosti sa Bugarskiat jezik. *Ja licno bi rekao (sakal?) da znam istoriju moga jezika, ali moram da priznam da imamo dosta slicnosti sa Bugarskim jezikom.
Za Srbiat jezik mije teglimo sa akcentot, na primer, 'dobar dan' a ne 'dobar den'. *Na Srpski jezik mi (teglimo) imamo akcenat, na primjer, 'dobar dan' a ne 'dobar den'.
Ajde sega vie zborite pa vaseto jezik pa da vidimo koj i kako se razbiramo vize izmedu nas. * Ajde vi zborite na vasem jeziku pa da vidimo koliko i kako se razumijemo medju nama.
Conclusion: I do not have knowledge of Macedonian speech and I am not aware what exactly are the meanings of only two words here and those are "teglimo" i "sakal". Overall composition of sentences is easily 3/4 the same with obvious difference in ('balkanized') grammar which is more similar to Bulgarian (of which I understand perhaps 2/3 if not more, especially western dialects).
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Post by meltdown711 on Dec 3, 2008 2:52:39 GMT -5
sakal sounds turkish...
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Dec 3, 2008 4:25:59 GMT -5
sakal means iskal/sakal in Bulgarian/he wanted it in Eng. I understand 100 percent of that Mac speach. And Novi u got it right Timochani, Brancevci, Moravljani or the Dragovic are SLAVIC TRIBES that merged into the Bulgarian nation... How do I know? Their speach was the same as the one of Severi and seven slav tribes in Moesia and was different from the serbian slav speach.
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Dec 3, 2008 4:50:16 GMT -5
Az (Ja-old word for az) bih preporucal na vsichki da govorim (sborim-old word za govorim) po svoja ezik/dijalekt, pa da vidim kolko priliki ima megdu nas. Ja bi preporucal da svite zborimo po svoj jezik/dijalekt, pa da vidimo kolko slicnosti imamo izmedu nas.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Dec 3, 2008 6:00:42 GMT -5
Sakal means want.
Do you see how close old serbian is to modern serbian aadmin. Aadmin, l've read that vardarian culture is identical to the mountain cultures of Old serbia and Montenegro.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Dec 3, 2008 12:59:43 GMT -5
There appears to be be speech similarities that is for certain Novi.
How many Bulgarians can understand my translation?
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Post by ljubotan on Dec 3, 2008 15:28:45 GMT -5
Admin, it was nice of you to break down the 2; I didn't realize just how similar the 2 were (at least my dialect). I may have spoken too soon, to say my dialect was much different than Serbian.
I know in speaking with my wife, I've noticed they use some old words that are really only common in NW Vardar; example, 'Lani' for 'last year'.
'Tegli', means 'to pull'. It translates to 'vuci'.
My mom's side comes from N. Montenegro, hence why she and all my aunts are 5'11. Wondering, Admin/Novi, is there any written documents of Montenegrins moving to Macedonia during the Austro-Turkish wars? I came across a cyrillic document (lost it) that mentioned how the Montenegrin newcomers in Tetovo were against the Bulgarian bishop in the area. We have a fellow family member whose last name prior to WW2 used to be 'Raicevic'; that is obviously very Montenegrin.
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Post by rusebg on Dec 3, 2008 17:26:22 GMT -5
Novi, and why don't you try to post something in Serbian proper or in your local dialect?! Difficulties?
"Ja licno bi sakal da ga znaem istorijata na moeto jezik, al za sega moram da priznaem deka imamo dosta slicnosti sa Bugarskiat jezik."
Az lichno bih iskal da znam istoriyata na moya ezik, no zasega moga da priznaya, che mame dosta priliki s bulgarskiya".
And this is the literary Bulgarian, based on the Northern Bulgarian speech.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Dec 3, 2008 22:26:34 GMT -5
"There appears to be be speech similarities that is for certain Novi."
I agree, its really close.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Dec 4, 2008 0:59:33 GMT -5
Raičević, ogranak Spaića (Spahić) ranije Đuričić u Cucama (Cetinje), odselili u Police (Trebinje); Rošca (Bjelopavlići), starinci od njih su kod Berana i u Vražegrmcima označeni i kao: Vražegrmac i Lučić ogranak Stanišića iz Bjelopavlića odselili se kod Prokuplja (Srbija); grana Raketića - Lopoćana; Selišta (Pješivci); Vir (Nikšić) i kao: Brđanin, vidi: Radošević; Nikšić i susjedni Ozrinić, jedni (Radojevi sinovi) u Aljasku, Čikago i Rusiju; Lepetane (Boka Kotorska); Vasojevići ogranak Katanića iz grupe Kovačevića; i Bajice (Raičeva dola), Cetinje ranije Martinović, u Zeti potomci Raiča Jova Martinova iselili u Bandiće (Komani) pop Ivan pa sin Raič Ivanov. Njegovi potomci i u Zetu kao: Čigalj; u Trnovu (podnožje Jahorine), Spuž, Lješkopolje, Gornju Goricu, Lužane, Berislavce, Golubovce i Mataguže (Zeta) i u Podgorici i Zatrijebaču, Doljani, od njih oko 1750. god. u Vraku (Stari Borič - Vezirov Borič - Vezirov Carski Has), Skadar i kao: Raičević, Martinović - Petrović (potomci Batrića Martinova) njihovi ogranci: Maslarica (Maslovarica), od njih u: Srbiju a Ratković, Andrović, Bošković, Stojović, Maslovarić (Maslarica) i Todorović u Zeti; srodnici Piraljića i Piranića; Raičević Golubovci i Berislavcima (Zeta), od njih su u Katalipe (Argentina), Slavonskom Brodu; Trnovu (Sarajevo), Kruševac (Srbija) pa u Bugarskoj, Grčkoj, Turskoj, Bihoru (Bijelo Polje) od Gusinja (Gornje Polimlje); ogranak Prebiračevića iz Pećarske (Bijelo Polje) odselili u Jasenicu, Jezero i Trešnjevcu (Sjenica); Orahovac (Bijelo Polje) doselili iz Sretine (Prošćenje), Mojkovac; Bajkovina (Mojkovac) ogranak Miloševića najsrodniji Zunkovićima; Ozrinići (Nikšić) iselili u Pivu oko 1900. god.; Zagarač (Danilovgrad); Bar; Deljani (Gusinje) iz Zatrijebača (Kuči), tu iz Lješkopolja kao: Deljanin (ogranci: Perkovića, Ljuljaševića i Mujovića); u Ceklinu (Rijeka Crnojevića) 1582. god. pripadaju Raičevićima (Martinovićima) iz Bajica (Cetinje), vidi: Martinović u Komanima www.montenegro.org.au/R.htmlJudging they went towards Greece, Bulgaria and Turkey it is possible some went to Macedonia. These accents are too similar in terms of old words used for them to be coincidence and the manner in which they are written and used.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Dec 4, 2008 1:04:15 GMT -5
surname connections between Montenegro and Macedonia (just using letter R from here www.montenegro.org.au/R.html ) Radović ......ranije Rakočević, porijeklom sa Kosova, a tamo od Ohrida (Makedonija), Radoman, Bironjske Rupe (Ljubotinj), Rijeka Crnojevića pa područni Mužovići i Braćene (Crmnica) doseljenici od Banjske (Kosovo), porijeklom iz Makedonije (Ovče Polje), Rajković, Bukovik (Crmnica); Njeguši (Cetinje) 15. v.; Kotor iz Debra (Makedonija); Ratković, .... Orahovica (Risan) iz Lom Palanke (Makedonija); * All mentioned branches show origins from Macedonia.
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Post by rusebg on Dec 4, 2008 3:01:34 GMT -5
It is really nice to see you can make a list with families which origins point toward macedonia. Unfortunately we can not make that. Millions of names is a pretty big task.
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Dec 4, 2008 3:42:56 GMT -5
^ Exactly. Fyroms used to be the proudest Bulgarians till 1945. The proudest Bulgarians now are the Pirin Macedonians (regional name, not national).
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Post by Novi Pazar on Dec 4, 2008 7:02:05 GMT -5
^ Didn't you read about my post of the male name of srbin used by vardarians to name their male children. Why didn't they name them Bugari or Bulgari/Balgari/Bolgari etc....
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Dec 4, 2008 7:32:20 GMT -5
Because its their nationality (Bulgarian) so they ll never call themselves such because it is selfevident they are Bulgarians. Do u call your children Serbian today? Its absurd. We have for example the family name Vlachov in Bulgaria, but we dont have Bulgarov because we are all Bulgarians. Actually thats a proove they werent serbian.
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