Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Jan 17, 2009 10:38:45 GMT -5
The photos of Macedonia reminds me very much of Russia and some former eastern block nations I had visited. Remnants of Soviet infrastructure everywhere. You're not wrong there. I was actually playing a computer game before I went to Macedonia called Call of Duty 4, and in that game, one of the levels is based in some apartment complex in Ukraine. The buildings and the architecture are exactly the same. Even the playgrounds and the fonts and writing are the same. Walking around my uncles suburb (called Aerodrom), I felt like I was in that game. Was spooky.
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Post by macmako on Jan 17, 2009 11:48:40 GMT -5
Those kinds of flat complexs are all too common all over Russia, Ukraine and most of the former eastern block nations. In Macedonia, did you see lots of LADA's? That vehicle was a common Soviet car in the 80's. I've also seen the locks on the car hoods in Russia and the Ukraine.
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Jan 17, 2009 12:15:06 GMT -5
Haha, my uncles car IS a Lada. I saw heaps of Lada's, Zastava's, Yugo's, etc. Though those cars are slowly fading away as people buy more and more new cars. I'd say, in 5 more years, you won't see them on Macedonian roads anymore.
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Post by mystery on Jan 20, 2009 22:07:03 GMT -5
Skopje is a nice city but the rest of the FYROM is a mess.... Skopje has great shopping areas or centers or w/e you wanna call them. Walking pavement, nice city. But like I said the rest of the country is a mess, seems like all the Macedonians are moving to Skopje these days.
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Post by Kassandros on Jan 31, 2009 6:00:48 GMT -5
Nikola "Also, nobody want's to go to Greece for a holiday anymore because they don't feel welcome." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You're right. They're not welcome as they were once. ..but "once" they used to come in Macedonia and more specifically in Halkidiki and Pieria and they were telling to locals "we're from Yougoslavia". Their cars had the Yougaslavian flags. Everybody was happy and the atmosphere was nice. Suddenly they start coming to Macedonia... saying "we're from Macedonia" ... "we're "Macedonians" and you're not"...... the had flags in their cars with the Star of Vergina in a weird color... and .... they start talking and saying that these places are "under occupation from the bad Greeks".... and everything changed. So dear Nikola.. NO! Under these conditions.. they're not welcome!! You changed the game... no us. So stay in Ohrid... and let other Balkanians, who show more respect to the country they visit, to enjoy Thessaloniki & the sea of Halkidiki. You're off from this game until you read "How To Behave In A Foreign Country 101". Fundamental principles of Respect.
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Feb 10, 2009 1:51:44 GMT -5
I'm sorry but you're talking rubbish. ..but once they used to come in Macedonia and more specifically in Halkidiki and Pieria and they were telling to locals we're from Yougoslavia. I've said this before but it's worth repeating again; nobody went around calling themselves a "Jugoslav", the people were Macedonian first, and Jugoslav second. How do I know this? Because I was living there while we were a part of Jugoslavia and I saw it with my own eyes! Where do YOU get your (obviously false) information from? Their cars had the Yougaslavian flags... Well of course our licence plates had the Jugoslav flag, we were a part of Jugoslavia. Do you expect the people to ilegally paint over the flag? ...we're Macedonians and you're not...... and .... they start talking and saying that these places are under occupation from the bad Greeks.... Wow, major contradiction in your statement there chief. These people whom you're talking about consider northern Greeks to be Macedonians. So why would they then tell you you're NOT Macedonian? You make no sense. Suddenly they start coming to Macedonia... saying we're from Macedonia???... There is nothing sudden about that. You've simply been fed lies. The only thing that's changed is Greek people's reaction to people from FYROM calling themselves Macedonians. Once, you Greeks didn't care, now you're aggressivelly opposed to it. And that's why people choose to no longer visit. They don't want to argue with you. (They never had to argue with you.) They simply want a nice relaxing holiday. So stay in Ohrid... and let other Balkanians, who show more respect to the country they visit, to enjoy Thessaloniki & the sea of Halkidiki. You're off from this game until you read How To Behave In A Foreign Country 101. Fundamental principles of Respect. You northern Greeks need to get your policy towards FYROM sorted because you're all over the place. Some of your people actually DO consider us Macedonians. I have come across plenty of northern Greek diaspora here in Australia (who unlike you, haven't been subjected for two decades of Greek jingoist brainwashing towards FYROM) and they do NOT share your opinion. In fact, when one Greek lady asked me where I was from and I told her Skopje, she actually encouraged me to call myself a Macedonian instead. Another time, I told a northern Greek man that I'am a Macedonian from Skopje and he was clearly annoyed until I told him that my father is from Bitola, and then suddenly he was fine. Happy, even. You know, personally, I'm quite happy to never set foot on Greek land. Your country simply doesn't interest me. Never has.
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Feb 10, 2009 17:35:53 GMT -5
My statement is no worse than what basilmacedon wrote in my final quote. And in case you missed it, I did say "personally". How does my own opinion reflect an entire nations?
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Post by Kassandros on Feb 10, 2009 17:45:57 GMT -5
Nikola "I've said this before but it's worth repeating again; nobody went around calling themselves a "Jugoslav", the people were Macedonian first, and Jugoslav second. How do I know this? Because I was living there while we were a part of Jugoslavia and I saw it with my own eyes! Where do YOU get your (obviously false) information from?" ----------------------------------------------------------------- Nikola... I live in Thessaloniki for 38 years and I go every summer to Halkidiki for 38 years. Dont tell me what is true and what is not about my place. NEVER Yougoslavians have introduced as "Macedonians" to Greeks. Never! I assure you for that. If they had... we would have this problem far far before during their vacations. I dont know what they were telling inside their country,,but in Halkidiki NEVER! "Wow, major contradiction in your statement there chief. These people whom you're talking about consider northern Greeks to be Macedonians. So why would they then tell you you're NOT Macedonian? You make no sense" --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- They used to consider them non-Greeks thus.. "Macedonians" according to you. After they saw they got only 3,600 votes from the Rainbow political party out of the 2,5 million Macedonians in Greece and after they saw how we react actively to this propaganda..... the game has changed: "No, you're Anatolians, Pontians, Eskimos or whatever comes in their mind. For sure.. not "Macedonians" . " "You know, personally, I'm quite happy to never set foot on Greek land. Your country simply doesn't interest me. Never has. " --------------------------------------------------------------------- Quite locigal. I expect that. On the contrary, I , if wasnt allowed to visit the palace and the tombs of the king of Macedonians... I would be ready to kill. If I wasnt allowed to stay in the land of my tribe I would be ready to die for it. Thats our difference. You see it as a political game with temporary winners and loosers. I see it as a family issue non-negotiable worth dying for it. Blood cannot become water. "Another time, I told a northern Greek man that I'am a Macedonian from Skopje and he was clearly annoyed until I told him that my father is from Bitola, and then suddenly he was fine. Happy, even" ------------------------------------------------------------------- I would react the same too. Skopje means 100% Bulgarian or Serb. Bitola (Monastiri) on the other hand.... a lot of possibilities of you being 100% Greek. There is that possibility of you being a real Macedonian.... Many there anti-Greeks are real Macedonians. They are Greek children from the civil war.... there are Greek children from former kommounist gorillas... there are children from the HUGE Greek population of Monastiri who stayed behind.... . For sure, there is a possibility of you beeing 100% Macedonian. That is why the guy was happy.. Ps. Let the time pass... let Gruevski & Co pass... let the American policy in Balkan pass..... wait until you get into EU where everything is permited... wait until people start searching free and anounce free their results.... wait until a political party that represents the real Macedonians of FYROM appears and has the authority to operate... and then you will find yourself under big surprices.. Just wait. Maybe not you.. but your children will have to face it some day. So.. dont fill them up with hate against the Greeks.. because you will have to give a lot of explanations to them when you'll be old in the bed..
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Rhezus
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Post by Rhezus on Feb 17, 2009 17:59:23 GMT -5
No personality.. I think you generalize a bit too much. The people I've met looked just great to me - open and cool.
About the slavic thing.. Slovenes are more slavic than any other balkanic ppl. They are actually the pure slavs - so as czehs, poles or slovaks. Balkan ppl (like serbs and macedonians) are non slavic, but slivicized mix of ppl. Slovenes do really belong to the central European culture and have nothing Balkan in terms of mentality, etc. which I think is just fine. I personally don't like the Balkan approach and try to avoid contact with such species.
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Feb 25, 2009 9:14:57 GMT -5
No personality.. I think you generalize a bit too much. The people I've met looked just great to me - open and cool. About the slavic thing.. Slovenes are more slavic than any other balkanic ppl. They are actually the pure slavs - so as czehs, poles or slovaks. Balkan ppl (like serbs and macedonians) are non slavic, but slivicized mix of ppl. Slovenes do really belong to the central European culture and have nothing Balkan in terms of mentality, etc. which I think is just fine. I personally don't like the Balkan approach and try to avoid contact with such species. Species? So we aren't human anymore? ;D Don't get me wrong, Slovenians are of course good people and they have the right to live anyway they choose but; perhaps it's because I live in a western country that I see many flaws with western culture. Western culture is, basically, no culture. Slovenians (and all other westernised Europeans) have discarded their own rich and beautiful culture to become westerners. And I mentioned this before but, I see no link between todays Slovenians (and Swiss) and their ancestors. In the sense that, those who built their castles, their unique ancient clothes, music, etc; their mentality hasn't been passed on. It's been deliberately forgotten. It's sad when a modern German (for example) is embaressed by German folk music and dance. Don't you agree? As far as Slovenes being true Slavs, I don't think so. Neither in race nor in culture. Like you confirmed, culturally, they are westerners. Racially, they are mostly central Europeans with some Balkan and Italian influence. And neither are Czechs true Slavs, they are very mixed with Germans. Balkan people may have many flaws but they are charming, welcoming, sometimes crazy, but never dull. And I prefer that.
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Feb 25, 2009 9:21:05 GMT -5
Oh and I should mention, you may like Slovenians and their culture but they don't like you. The biggest complaints Slovenians have are with Balkan people. And Russians (for some reason).
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Post by boscrocop on Feb 25, 2009 13:55:48 GMT -5
Nikola doesn't have any pics from Bosnia, and did not even go there, why do you hate us Nikola, what have we ever done to wrong your people?
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Feb 25, 2009 16:36:43 GMT -5
Nikola doesn't have any pics from Bosnia, and did not even go there, why do you hate us Nikola, what have we ever done to wrong your people? Hehe, I don't hate Bosnia. I just didn't have enough time. But I'll be going again in a few months time and I'll definitely visit Bosnia, Serbia, Croatia and Crna Gora.
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Rhezus
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Post by Rhezus on Feb 25, 2009 17:08:03 GMT -5
Balkanians are different from the rest of Europe. Have more aggressive, savage behaviour. I could give many examples, as the one with serb's wars against Croatia and Bosna Herzegovina in the 90's.
By "western" here I hope you mean American "culture", which is not same as west European culture.
Wait a while, "westernised" Europeans.. Europe has never been westernised, but contributed or tried to give countires like US, CAN, AUS, N.Z. more European values. I don't see anything negative in that. You, as balkanian, think the region of south-eastern Europe has probably best "culture", but such is not the case. This part of the continent is the most undeveloped in Europe and most of you still want to live in west. In Balkans one sees dirty streets, no infra- and social structure, huge corrption, cheating - is that the good culture you are talking about?!
They are very conscious about their customs, folklore etc. but they don't live constanly with the past - as in some other parts of Europe.
Haha... give me a break! If you are the real slavic, why then Slovenes, Czehs or Poles look much closer in appearence to Belorussians, Russians and Ukrainians?! For instance, 60% of BG has thracian ancestry, some gothic, celtic, etc. and probably only 10-15% slavic. Such is the case with the balkan "slavs". Slovenes, Czeh, Poles are much more slavic than the slavicised macedon or serb balkanians. Don't deny that, pls.
In certain ways they are good, but I don't prefer them as much as you do.
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Feb 25, 2009 17:26:47 GMT -5
I never said south eastern Europe has the BEST culture, I just like their openness and warmth, which Slovenians and Swiss seem to lack. Maybe the perfect culture is a mixture of the two, being able to keep traditional values but learning a strict work ethic like westerners have.
And, I also never said that we Macedonians and Serbs, etc. are closer to real Slavs than Slovenians. It's obvious we're not (especially Macedonians, we are the least Slavic of all). But Slovenians aren't Slavic either. They don't look like Russians. I don't know which pocket of Slovenians you have come across but most people in Ljubljana I came across looked central European. With the ocassional Balkan immigrant doing the shitty jobs that the locals don't want to do.
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Feb 25, 2009 18:45:32 GMT -5
I don't know which pocket of Slovenians you have come across but most people in Ljubljana I came across looked central European.
imo Germanic of sorts ...I spent 3 weeks in Ljubjana as a kid ..I could swear they were speaking some kind of shwab like lingo
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Rhezus
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Post by Rhezus on Feb 25, 2009 18:50:30 GMT -5
Anyway, I agree with you here..
Of course, they are.. West slavic are: Slovenes, Czehs, Slovaks, Poles.. East slavic - Beloruss, Russians, Ukrainians, and south slavic Croats, Serbs, Macedonians (where the slavic element is the lowest - that is to say, slavicized Illyrian, Peonian, Tribali etc. balkan folks).
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Post by danica1976 on Mar 6, 2009 20:14:02 GMT -5
Hey everyone I am new to the forum, but wanted to say hello & tell you, Nikola, how much I enjoyed your photos, especially of Skopje & Ohrid. I live in the U.S. and am the product of an American Father and Jugoslav/Macedonian Mother. My Mom was born in Zernofsi (did I spell that correctly? I was baptized there, actually) & raised in Skopje. I spent every summer of my early life in Skopje with my family and spoke Macedonian better than English for a few years. I consider myself a Macedonian through and through (ok, Greeks can begin the attack now...). I might be an American technically, but my soul, culture & identity are all MK. Anyway...I have not been to Skopje since 2005, when I was able to visit my baba, just before her passing. I wanted her to be able to meet my children, as I remember how lovingly she cared for me as a child. It was a wonderful, bittersweet visit & I was so sad to leave. I will be returning to Skopje in the summer of 2010, for my honeymoon. I LOVE Ohrid & spent many parts of those summers there AND in Thessaloniki. I have no bad memories of my parents or family arguing with anyone over being Macedonian. Thought I do not claim to be currently up on local politics between citizens of both Greece & FYROM, it makes me so sad to hear the animosity on line. I am currently immersed at the local level of politics where I live, as a member of the Democratic Committee (which is enough of a challenge, so I will try not to get involved in any other dispute). But, I will say this: I am close friends with an elderly Greek Orthodox priest (who is from Greece, btw, not the states) & since he has retired & has no parish, I make him spanakopita(or just pita to me) and gravce tavce once a week & we often talk for hours. We always say that our relationship is special, b/c who ever heard of a Jugoslav Macedonian & a Greek being good friends? LOL He is one of the people I cherish most in my life and is often the person who brings resolutions to light, that I would have never thought of on my own. I was looking for pics of Skopje so my fiance could see what the city looks like (and what a wonderful city, it will always have my heart - I learned to drive on my vujko's Zastava & I truly believe I am able to drive anything b/c of it!). Yes, my best memories are of my summers in Skopje & I cannot wait to get back there & share it with the man I love... I am glad to find this forum, I am glad it is here & I hope to meet many of you in the near future
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Post by redbaron on Mar 6, 2009 20:56:36 GMT -5
The Ohrid lake is beautiful.The climate of Ohrid and Pogradec on the Albanian side of the lake are the best escape from the heat in the summer. It is a shame that we both Albanians and Macedonians don't know how to take care of the lake. German government is investing on both sides to keep it clean.
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Post by rusebg on Mar 7, 2009 5:29:28 GMT -5
Hallo, Danica, and welcome to the forum. Ili dobre doshla
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