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Post by Novi Pazar on Jul 27, 2008 21:23:36 GMT -5
"you mean albanian gene? because that illyrian genes is hight among Albanians."
Show me!.
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Post by atlantis on Jul 27, 2008 22:32:02 GMT -5
First.....Language is a tricky criterion. The Slavic speakers are sharply distinct from Albanians. Second lets come to the facts.... 1-This study from Croat University, shows clear Albanian are autochthones people in Balkan and Europe. "HLA Class I Polymorphism in the Albanian Population" Z. Grubi}1, V. Kerhin-Brklja~i}1, E. ^e~uk-Jeli~i}1, S. Kuci2 and A. Ka{telan1 1 National Referral Organ Transplantation and Tissue Typing Center, University Hospital Center Zagreb, Zagreb, Croatia 2 Faculty of Medicine Prishtina, Prishtina, Kosovo 2-Albanians are a very homogenous population, their history suggests that they did not mix with neighboring populations. It is assumed that Albanians have Illyrian origin. Link: hrcak.srce.hr/file/15462 ne file PDF Link: Croat center scents journals hrcak.srce.hr/index.php?show=...ak_jezik=154623-Semino: It's interesting to note that another recent study concluded that a J sub-group, J2e1 (J-M102), also expanded into Europe from the Balkans during the Neolithic period. Most likely due to genetic drift, Kosovar Albanians harbor a J2e frequency peak whereas variance maximum declines from the southeastern edge of the studied region . DNA CAN'T LIE...........
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Post by Novus Dis on Jul 28, 2008 0:04:58 GMT -5
But people studying it can. So why no cultural and linguistic connections between Illyrians and Albanian/Croats?
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jul 28, 2008 1:06:25 GMT -5
"DNA CAN'T LIE..........."
I know and why is it so low with Albanians and so high with Croats and Bosniaks?
Why do Albanians have a 10% occurance with the Slavic gene, its almost at the same percentage with Serbs and Montenegrins at 15%?
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Post by Duke John on Jul 28, 2008 2:04:26 GMT -5
Yes it can! in serbian world. But people studying it can. Lmao yep exactly! What do you know about Albanian language or culture? ne znas nista!
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Post by Novus Dis on Jul 28, 2008 4:39:19 GMT -5
Yes it can! in serbian world. This comes from the women who is apart of the world that created "freezer trucks full of bodies", etc. Lmao yep exactly! So you deny that people lie? What do you know about Albanian language or culture? ne znas nista! I asked you to show me the similarities. You gave me nothing.
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Jul 28, 2008 5:33:37 GMT -5
Albanians seem obsessed with proving they are Illyrians. Go ahead & be Illyrians all you want. Rename Albania to Illyria if you want. It doesn't bother me... Serbs are slavs & slav is a demographic term less associated with genetics and more associated with language and culture. Whatever combination we are, we are taller, smarter & more higher achieving then Albanians or Illyrians, so the less Illyrian connections we have the better as far as I'm concerned. The same goes for Bosnians & Croats in comparison to Albanians.
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Post by Duke John on Jul 28, 2008 5:35:30 GMT -5
I asked you to show me the similarities. You gave me nothing. why should i? you wouldent believe anyway,you cant and you would deny eveything that does not fit your wishes,to tell you the truth i dont give a damn what you think of us albanians,i have pretty good proofs that we descent from native balkan population and you have pretty good proofs that you descend from slavic people called serbs who entered balkans in 6-7th century.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jul 28, 2008 6:36:07 GMT -5
^ Show me this proof, l want to see it?
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Post by Novus Dis on Jul 28, 2008 6:49:59 GMT -5
why should i? you wouldent believe anyway,you cant and you would deny eveything that does not fit your wishes,to tell you the truth i dont give a damn what you think of us albanians, Don't give me that crap. You present evidence on these forums so it can be criticized. If the evidence is genuine then it will stand against the criticism. If you want to live in your little world where Albanians are Illyrians and whatnot then leave this forum. If you want to debate and test your beliefs then stop whining show me some proof. i have pretty good proofs that we descent from native balkan population and you have pretty good proofs that you descend from slavic people called serbs who entered balkans in 6-7th century. I have proof that Albanians came from Asia Minor.
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Post by Duke John on Jul 28, 2008 7:00:57 GMT -5
Ok man lets pretend like believing in Highdukes stories,still we were long before you in balkans and thats what matters to me and thats the moust important thing for me, i do not care if my ancestors came to balkans 1300bc from anatolia(which i do not believe) still we were looooong before you in balkans and that make us natives compared to you and thats the ultimate point.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jul 28, 2008 7:15:25 GMT -5
Fanula Papazoglu writes in 'The Illyrian and Dardanelle Kingdom':
"I have no intention of entering into the complicated question of the origin of the Albanians. I would wish only to recall that there are not a few experts (G. Weigand, N. Jockl, H. Baric, Vl. Georgiev) who locate the area of the forming of the Albanian people in the central part of Albania, citing various linguistic indicators (the kinship of Albanian with Illyrian, Thracian, that is, Dacomoesian). I would add that the ethnic word Arber, Arben, Arbanites, does not have to be strictly connected with Ptolemy's Albansi. Perhaps two different roots are in question so that the later correlation of the Albanians with the ancient Albanoi rests on a chance similarity of name."
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jul 28, 2008 7:32:15 GMT -5
Luma, Johannes Thunman was an Austro-German l believe who first postulated a connection between the Shciptar and ptolemy's Albanoi. Tell me why modern Albanian experts rely on Thunmans conclusions from the 18/19th century when it clearly contradicts modern linguistical science and modern archaeological evidence.....l'll tell you why because these Austrian formulated concepts and principles were subject to well defined Austrian nationalist and expansionist aims including that of keeping in check the Slav-settled lands which were always regarded as potentially hostile, as it serves Albanian (shciptar) interests today!.
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Post by atlantis on Jul 28, 2008 12:27:50 GMT -5
Serbs that use Wilkes for their propaganda are very, very wrong. They are putting forward patches of texts from the work of a historian who clearly believes that Albanians are indigenous in the lands they inhabit, hence, the descendants of the Illyrians. 1. Linguistic: ' The Albanian language which belongs to the Indo-European group, has a distinctive vocabulary, morphology and phonetic rules which have engaged the attention of many philologists, of whom the majority have confidently proclaimed its origin from ancient Illyrian' J.Wilkes 'Illyrians' page 278 Note; Wilkes cannot claim otherwise because he is not a linguist. Nowhere in his book he states what I have said above in number 1. 2. Origin Wilkes nowhere in his book claims that "Albanians have XXXXX origin" !!! His opinion on the origin of Albanians is very clear on page 244 'It is not doubted whether or not Albs are indigenous, its whether they were directly from Albania or from some northern part. For instance, it is argued, that Albanians have their origins in Southern Serbia ' 3. The quote on modern Albanians being "short and dark skinned" is not his. It was taken from the book 'Skeletal evidence' of Alexander Stipcevic, page 262, published over thirty years ago (in 1977). Stipcevic himself claims that Albanians are the descendants of Illyrians !!!! The subject on Wilkes, which is historical, should not take a different course !!!
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Jul 28, 2008 17:25:44 GMT -5
Ok man lets pretend like believing in Highdukes stories,still we were long before you in balkans and thats what matters to me and thats the moust important thing for me, i do not care if my ancestors came to balkans 1300bc from anatolia(which i do not believe) still we were looooong before you in balkans and that make us natives compared to you and thats the ultimate point. Hajduke psycho...just prove strong connention between IllyroAlbanians because Dardanians are who found Troya and Troyans found Ancien Illyrians, Ancient Greece, Ancient Roman, and some Celtic place ect. More olddest than Troyans (Dardanians) along Hittites you can't find more olddest european. it is reason why our language is most olddest european and dont have persian influence unlike others european languages becauce Albanians lived long here more 8.000 years and our race gived alot civilization. 1) In Pelasgian Mythology Dardanian was son of Zeus (puro albanian word). 2) Troya also was called Illium....(albanian: Star) who gived names of Illirians (The Starts).
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MiG
Amicus
Republika
Posts: 4,793
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Post by MiG on Jul 28, 2008 18:25:41 GMT -5
What's so bad about being a Slav? I don't understand. Look at what Slavic people have. Look how rich the history is. I am damn proud that I'm Slavic. Someone calling me Illyrian or claiming that I am, I'd probably think he was the biggest idiot out there.
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Post by vinjak on Jul 28, 2008 18:33:08 GMT -5
What's so bad about being a Slav? I don't understand. Look at what Slavic people have. Look how rich the history is. I am damn proud that I'm Slavic. Someone calling me Illyrian or claiming that I am, I'd probably think he was the biggest idiot out there. Exactly my thoughts too, Earlier in this thread I mentioned that I would be embarrased to have any Illyrian blood in my vains. Albs can claim whatever they want ...wanna be illyrian LOL then go ahead like it freakin matters in 2008 better still make badges clip it on your shirt and then whistle merrily as you make your way to work LMAO.
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Post by atlantis on Jul 28, 2008 19:02:00 GMT -5
What's so bad about being a Slav? I don't understand. Look at what Slavic people have. Look how rich the history is. I am damn proud that I'm Slavic. Someone calling me Illyrian or claiming that I am, I'd probably think he was the biggest idiot out there. That’s the confusion, because some Serbs called their self Slavic-Illyrian and some Slavic Mongols….. just clarify what you are….. There are many Serb links around, trying to tell us Serbians are connected with Illyrians and Albanians connected with Russians, Caspians,or Armenians or upper !!!!!!!!. Now you are saying proud to be Slavs ,not Illyrians….what you call that in English… You have to be one, can’t be both…. And leave for us second choice whatever you want…..please ;D ;D ;D
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Post by vinjak on Jul 28, 2008 20:04:52 GMT -5
Hmm I recently read a interesting paper from, Richard Jansen from Colorado state University
And this is what he has to say about Albanians,
Albanians appeared on the scene in the early Middle Ages as a result of intermarriage between nomadic shepherds and unromanized remnants of Illyrians and Dardanians from Thrace.
Tracing such descents is difficult but the people living in the region before the arrival of the Serbs from the North are likely to have some genetic relationships to Albanians, but DNA data would be needed to definitively settle the claim, which in any case is hardly germane to the current conflict. The region was conquered by Alexander the Great 300 years before Christ and became part of the Roman province of Dardania in the 4th century A. D.
Slavs crossed the Danube and moved into the Balkans by the 6th century. These migrations weakened the Byzantium Empire sufficiently that Illyrian speaking people,moved eastward from the Adriatic into the Kosovo region of the Balkans. Their language became known as Albanian and their culture became allied with Byzantium after the breakup of the Catholic Church into Eastern and western branches in 1054. Slavs migrating into the Balkans divided into three groups; Slovenes, Croats and Serbs, as is still true today. By the 12th century almost all arable land in the region now known as Northern Albania and Kosovo was in Slavic hands.
So basicaly Serbian Identity isnt in doubt, but the Albanian one is nomadic sheperds,Illyrian and dardanians from Thrace. Makes sense actualy since it is claimed there is some Illyrian gene's among Albanians,...... no hard background just a mix of what was in the Balkans at that time.
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Jul 28, 2008 21:23:00 GMT -5
w known as Northern Albania and Kosovo was in Slavic hands. [/b] So basicaly Serbian Identity isnt in doubt, but the Albanian one is nomadic sheperds,Illyrian and dardanians from Thrace. Makes sense actualy since it is claimed there is some Illyrian gene's among Albanians,...... no hard background just a mix of what was in the Balkans at that time.[/quote] Albanian origin is not doubt whatever illyrian or thracian they were same people (we albanians have particular language/culture/traditions ect) but serbian origin is doubt..you were one slaves who lived in Iran later Caucasia and moved down in Balcan with avars/slavs and found your new nation. as for sheperds all balcan natives were like that but majority were vllachs...albanians mostly warriors (also they patrical lives explain how lived) since XI century had insurgenc/resistance againt Byzantines/Bulgarians later Venetians/Othomans ect.
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