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Post by atlantis on Jul 28, 2008 21:36:50 GMT -5
Hmm I recently read a interesting paper from, Richard Jansen from Colorado state University And this is what he has to say about Albanians, Albanians appeared on the scene in the early Middle Ages as a result of intermarriage between nomadic shepherds and unromanized remnants of Illyrians and Dardanians from Thrace. Tracing such descents is difficult but the people living in the region before the arrival of the Serbs from the North are likely to have some genetic relationships to Albanians, but DNA data would be needed to definitively settle the claim, which in any case is hardly germane to the current conflict. The region was conquered by Alexander the Great 300 years before Christ and became part of the Roman province of Dardania in the 4th century A. D.Slavs crossed the Danube and moved into the Balkans by the 6th century. These migrations weakened the Byzantium Empire sufficiently that Illyrian speaking people,moved eastward from the Adriatic into the Kosovo region of the Balkans. Their language became known as Albanian and their culture became allied with Byzantium after the breakup of the Catholic Church into Eastern and western branches in 1054. Slavs migrating into the Balkans divided into three groups; Slovenes, Croats and Serbs, as is still true today. By the 12th century almost all arable land in the region now known as Northern Albania and Kosovo was in Slavic hands.So basicaly Serbian Identity isnt in doubt, but the Albanian one is nomadic sheperds,Illyrian and dardanians from Thrace. Makes sense actualy since it is claimed there is some Illyrian gene's among Albanians,...... no hard background just a mix of what was in the Balkans at that time. Vinjak, That's called "A Short History of Kosovo" by G. Richard Jansen Colorado State University Fort Collins CO 80523 April 25, 1999, Updated July 22, 2008 and it's not a paper.... Don't bring here 1 sentences here and 1 there? And if you read all of it doesn't seem to help Serbs ..... ... [glow=red,2,300]VInjak wrote [/glow]: And this is what he(G. Richard Jansen ) has to say about Albanians,
Albanians appeared on the scene in the early Middle Ages as a result of intermarriage between nomadic shepherds and unromanized remnants of Illyrians and Dardanians from Thrace. [glow=red,2,300]And here is what's written[/glow]: Serbian scholars claim that Albanians appeared on the scene in the early Middle Ages as a result of intermarriage between nomadic shepherds and unromanized remnants of Illyrians and Dardanians from Thrace. [/color][/color][/u] Link: lamar.colostate.edu/~grjan/kosovohistory.html-That's the same thing with Deucaon: I have proof that Albanians came from Asia Minor. from genocities.com with John Wilkes Serbs are all liar.... :-*historically ;D ;D ;D I got you
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jul 28, 2008 21:53:21 GMT -5
Guys, l've got stacks of sources l can refer to but lets begin with the first fundamental questions:
Why is shciptar in the satem branch like slavic and illyrian in the centum branch like Greek?
Why can't modern shciptar be able to translate illyrian inscriptions, but relies on latin or greek?
Why did take until the 18th century for the Shciptar to realise he is a descendant of illyrians?
Why hasn't anyone refuted Wilkes yet?
l can say more, but this will do for now.
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Post by vinjak on Jul 28, 2008 23:41:23 GMT -5
Albanians appeared on the scene in the early Middle Ages as a result of intermarriage between nomadic shepherds and unromanized remnants of Illyrians and Dardanians from Thrace.
And you dispute this ? why ? Seems very likely to me.
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Post by Novus Dis on Jul 29, 2008 0:00:08 GMT -5
why should i? you wouldent believe anyway,you cant and you would deny eveything that does not fit your wishes,to tell you the truth i dont give a damn what you think of us albanians,i have pretty good proofs that we descent from native balkan population and you have pretty good proofs that you descend from slavic people called serbs who entered balkans in 6-7th century. Actually the Dardanian people (Albanians) disappeared from Asia Minor in 1300BC but didn't arrive into the Balkans until 800AD (which probably means they went east and through Caucasia, then north and then west through Crimea.) They probably migrated there during or after the great movement of people (around the same time the Serbs came there) but since there is no written record of Albanians existing in the Balkans before 800AD, I think its wise to believe that they came to the Balkans in 800AD. They were probably Roman mercenaries that were given land by Eastern Rome for their labour.
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Post by Duke John on Jul 29, 2008 0:39:25 GMT -5
And how that helps the serbs? it just proves that Albanians descent from ancient balkan native population while serbs came much later in balkans. Actually the Dardanian people (Albanians) disappeared from Asia Minor in 1300BC but didn't arrive into the Balkans until 800AD (which probably means they went east and through Caucasia, then north and then west through Crimea.) They probably migrated there during or after the great movement of people (around the same time the Serbs came there) but since there is no written record of Albanians existing in the Balkans before 800AD, I think its wise to believe that they came to the Balkans in 800AD. They were probably Roman mercenaries that were given land by Eastern Rome for their labour. Lmao,propably,propably,propably...lol i see highduke symptoms, you have just created a new theory stick to that so you can feel better.
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Post by Novus Dis on Jul 29, 2008 0:47:29 GMT -5
Lmao,propably,propably,propably...lol i see highduke symptoms, you have just created a new theory stick to that so you can feel better. Said the Albanian.
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Post by vinjak on Jul 29, 2008 0:56:59 GMT -5
And how that helps the serbs? And how does your claim have any significance in these times ? And I would be embarrased, because if its true and you are Illyrians what the F%^K you been doing all this time ? not only are you the poorest country in Europe but your also undeveloped......... No wonder Illyrians are extinct watch that history doesnt repeat
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Post by Duke John on Jul 29, 2008 1:03:25 GMT -5
And how that helps the serbs? And how does your claim have any significance in these times ? Yes it has, as much as the serbs saying kosovo is serbia. Trying to stop the greedy newcomers that came from the other side of carpathian mountains, that ate my ancestors lands and countinuous agressors against natives till present day.
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Post by vinjak on Jul 29, 2008 1:07:44 GMT -5
^^^^
Makes not the sightest difference as throught history its the powers that decide.........
So Illyrian claims amount to nothing.
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Post by Duke John on Jul 29, 2008 1:12:49 GMT -5
^^^^ Makes not the sightest difference as throught history its the powers that decide......... Yep! Fight the Power! exactly,just like kosovo is serbia claims does not mean anything.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jul 29, 2008 1:48:58 GMT -5
^ kosovo is not independant, res. 1244 is the final say.
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Post by Duke John on Jul 29, 2008 2:10:10 GMT -5
^ kosovo is not independant, res. 1244 is the final say. Here is the list of the countries that recognises Kosova as fully independent country! www.kosovothanksyou.com/Kosova is independent in every way from serbia, serbia has no kind of power in Kosova nor serbia runs Kosova in any way, just check out the list of the countries that recognise Kosova as Fully independent country and the res 1244 has no meaning and it will be thrown to garbage,serbia will never rule Kosova Albanians and thats reality.
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Post by Novus Dis on Jul 29, 2008 3:17:50 GMT -5
Trying to stop the greedy newcomers that came from the other side of carpathian mountains, that ate my ancestors lands and countinuous agressors against natives till present day. Serbs are the natives (at least more native then the Albanians) who are struggling against the expansionist Albanians, not the other way around.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jul 29, 2008 6:45:47 GMT -5
"Here is the list of the countries that recognises Kosova as fully independent country! www.kosovothanksyou.com/Kosova is independent in every way from serbia, serbia has no kind of power in Kosova nor serbia runs Kosova in any way, just check out the list of the countries that recognise Kosova as Fully independent country and the res 1244 has no meaning and it will be thrown to garbage,serbia will never rule Kosova Albanians and thats reality." The reality is that only 43 countries have recognised it and the recognitions have almost come to a halt. What matters is a resolution that was voted by the UN member states in 1999 is the final say, Res. 1244. The reality is that kosovo is only autonomous. Serbia will regain full control of the province in due course, l'm absolutely sure of this. Now back to the topic, you still have not shown me evidence that proves shqiptars are directly related to the Albanoi.
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Post by Duke John on Jul 29, 2008 7:27:40 GMT -5
"Here is the list of the countries that recognises Kosova as fully independent country! www.kosovothanksyou.com/Kosova is independent in every way from serbia, serbia has no kind of power in Kosova nor serbia runs Kosova in any way, just check out the list of the countries that recognise Kosova as Fully independent country and the res 1244 has no meaning and it will be thrown to garbage,serbia will never rule Kosova Albanians and thats reality." The reality is that only 43 countries have recognised it and the recognitions have almost come to a halt. What matters is a resolution that was voted by the UN member states in 1999 is the final say, Res. 1244. The reality is that kosovo is only autonomous. Serbia will regain full control of the province in due course, l'm absolutely sure of this. Now back to the topic, you still have not shown me evidence that proves shqiptars are directly related to the Albanoi. The reality is that Kosova is Independent there is no goin back under serbia! there is no chance to force 2 million people, do you get that,not a single Kosova Albanian will ever live under the country called serbia, are you crazy? Kosova is done deal, as soon as serbia tryes to enter Kosova, Kosova Albanians will defend their country, you live in fantasy world you need to wake up really, next week im goin to Kosova and if you want i can take pictures and show you how serbian it is! and about Albanoi...the name tells it, no need to prove nothing to an outsider, to someone who settled to the lands of my ancestors and now asks me some absurd questions like prove that you have connections to Albanoi,imagine if the whole thing was the opposite and i ask you prove that serbs have connection to serboi...seres mnogo!
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Post by atlantis on Jul 29, 2008 8:49:59 GMT -5
Albanians appeared on the scene in the early Middle Ages as a result of intermarriage between nomadic shepherds and unromanized remnants of Illyrians and Dardanians from Thrace. And you dispute this ? why ? Seems very likely to me. Vinjak , I’m not disputing that …you are…. You brought here a fabricated source ….that’s called Falsification … Read it one more time and there is no point to argue with that…. G. Richard Jansen sad : Serbs scholars claim…..not G. Richard Jansen claim ALBANIANS are….. And this sources from G. Richard Jansen is bringing benefits for Kosovars not for Serbs if you understand that. Just read it again: lamar.colostate.edu/~grjan/kosovohistory.htmlSorry for simplifying my above post
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Post by atlantis on Jul 29, 2008 9:07:23 GMT -5
Trying to stop the greedy newcomers that came from the other side of carpathian mountains, that ate my ancestors lands and countinuous agressors against natives till present day. Serbs are the natives (at least more native then the Albanians) who are struggling against the expansionist Albanians, not the other way around. Still you are confused: "This displacement of the Serb population is known in history as "the great migration" How Serbs can be Natives.....doesn't sound logic.... And you saying that albs are Dardanian, bringing here John Wilkes sources You are really confused. You are confused with Serbs Academy of History, Who is trying hard to prove that Albanian has no connection with Dardanians. However YES we are .Trojans people and there is a great mach to be Illyria -Dardans … That’s we are trying to prove we are Homeric people and connected with Great Alexander, but Greeks doesn’t like that….. Anyway thanks for proving what Albanians need to prove… ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Novus Dis on Jul 29, 2008 10:21:44 GMT -5
"Kosova" is nothing but a bastardised version (much like most things Albanian) of "Kosovo" which is the correct Serbian name. "Kosova" means nothing in Albanian. "Kosovo" means "field of blackbirds" in Serbian. Albanian historical claims on Kosovo are as phoney as their claim that they inherited Illyria.
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Post by captainalbania on Jul 29, 2008 10:25:46 GMT -5
Lol you got him, he just can't admit he falsified evidence. I thought Vinjak was one of the good ones, but jeez.
Let me address a couple of Novi Pazar's Points. -We do not know if Illyrian was Satem or Centum. -inscriptions that have been found in Thracian and Illyrian on coins and rings have easily been found to correspond to modern Albanian words. ex: the Duvanli thracian ring found in Duvanli, Bulgaria had the words DELE and MANZ on it which correspond to the Alb words for sheep and colt. -Thracians and Illyrian inscriptions are in a modified Phonecian script (that you call Greek) for the same reason Greeks wrote in a modified Phonecian script, it was the script used in the mediterranean basin during the bronze age.
Anything else you'd like cleared up Novi?
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Post by captainalbania on Jul 29, 2008 10:28:36 GMT -5
BTW Wilkes, (If you've actually read his work) says that Albanians are descended from the Illyrians. You would know this if you had properly read this thread where Atlantis explained this and also if you had read his book.
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