libofsha
Amicus
socially inept village idiot who is having a meltdown daily
Posts: 611
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Post by libofsha on Jul 11, 2008 9:33:25 GMT -5
yea its clearly fabricated by hoxha's regime
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Post by Novus Dis on Jul 11, 2008 12:17:09 GMT -5
I want you "Illyrians" to prove to me that the Albanian language is similar to the Illyrian language. I want you to prove to me that Albanians are descended from Illyrians (by that I mean they are the heirs of Illyrians.) Does Serbia has any meaning in Serbian? "Land of the Serbs."
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Post by Duke John on Jul 11, 2008 12:22:24 GMT -5
Prove Albanians as non Balkanians!? I can prove serbs not native balkanians!
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Post by Novus Dis on Jul 11, 2008 12:34:29 GMT -5
Prove Albanians as non Balkanians!? I can prove serbs not native balkanians! The Albanian language is nothing like the language of their neighbours.
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Post by Duke John on Jul 11, 2008 13:59:40 GMT -5
Prove Albanians as non Balkanians!? I can prove serbs not native balkanians! The Albanian language is nothing like the language of their neighbours. ahahah what a prove, do you want me to prove when serbs came to balkans? ok i wont you would feel like outsider.
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Post by albaniansoul on Jul 11, 2008 14:32:00 GMT -5
What kosovo/a means in Albanian is irrelevant. What is relevant is what does Dardhania mean in Serbian? Original name of "Kosovo"
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
20%
Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jul 11, 2008 14:40:42 GMT -5
Prove Albanians as non Balkanians!? I can prove serbs not native balkanians! The Albanian language is nothing like the language of their neighbours. That is very true. Serbocroatian with Icelandian are far more close than Albanian with Greek.
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Post by Novus Dis on Jul 11, 2008 14:42:07 GMT -5
ahahah what a prove, do you want me to prove when serbs came to balkans? ok i wont you would feel like outsider. Ironic you state that since there isn't any proof of Albanian existence in the Balkans before 800AD (300 years after Serbs came to the Balkans.) What kosovo/a means in Albanian is irrelevant. What is relevant is what does Dardhania mean in Serbian? Original name of "Kosovo" But it doesn't mean anything in Albanian either.
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Post by Duke John on Jul 11, 2008 15:04:25 GMT -5
Ironic you state that since there isn't any proof of Albanian existence in the Balkans before 800AD (300 years after Serbs came to the Balkans.) Of course there is tons of proofs but its a different thing if you refuse to accept it,you can close your eyes and ears and repeat to your self that albanians did not exist in balkans before serbs but dont be scared just peak to this, are you ready? ajde....! !Ptolemy and Albanaoi!! thats some concrete proof! now imagine if there was mentioned Serboi somewhere in balkans instead of Albanoi, that would be more than enough for you i mean that would be like brand or something and imagine if some albanian would argue that Ptolemys serboi in balkans is not the serbs hahaha... but at that time period when Ptolemy mentions Albanoi in central part of Albania the Serboi were somewhere between Carpath and Caspian sea! and its not only Ptolemys Albanaoi but tons of other proofs. What kosovo/a means in Albanian is irrelevant. What is relevant is what does Dardhania mean in Serbian? Original name of "Kosovo" Yes it means!
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Post by kapetan on Jul 11, 2008 15:09:01 GMT -5
The theory that Albanians were related to the Illyrians was proposed for the first time by a German historian in 1774.[9] There are two variants of the theory: one is that the Albanian language represents a survival of an indigenous Illyrian language spoken in what is now Albania. The other is that the Albanian language is the descendant of an Illyrian language that was spoken north of the Jireèek Line and probably north or northeast of Albania. There is a gap of several centuries between the last historical mention of Illyrians (and the Illyrian tribe Albanoi) and the later mention of Albanians and of the names Albanon and Arbanon to indicate the region. Supporters of either theory say that the term Albanian gradually came to be applied to the surviving Illyrians. There are some direct correspondences of vocabulary between Albanian and Illyrian,[10] but none of these correspondences is conclusive for the purpose of determining whether or not Albanian is an Illyrian language. A number of Illyrian lexical items (toponyms, hydronyms, oronyms, anthroponyms, etc.) have been linked to Albanian. To propagate the connection, the Albanian communist regime adopted a policy of artificially naming people with "Illyrian" names. Some Historians, ethnologists and archaelogists however refute the theory of the Illyrian origin of Albanians. In the book "The Illyrians", author John Wilkes writes that Albanians are likely to be of other origin than Illyrian. Aside from an Illyrian origin, a Dacian or Thracian origin is also hypothesized. There are a number of factors taken as evidence for a Dacian or Thracian origin of Albanians. GOOD AMOUNT OF INFO en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_AlbaniansAlso interesting. At the time, Croats were generally considered a Slavic people on the basis of Croatian being a Slavic language, so this use of "Illyrian" was generally understood to have been wishful thinking. Yet, two centuries later, genetic studies showed that there could actually have been some basis to this reasoning, because the people of Croatia today seem to have a lot of genetic material consistent with the indigenous population from the time of the Migrations Period. I2a1 is typical of South Slavs, especially Croats and Bosnians (40 - 50%). The high frequency and diversity of Haplogroup I2a1 among populations of the Western Balkans lends support to the hypothesis that the Adriatic region of modern-day Croatia served as a refuge for populations bearing Haplogroup I2a1 during the last glacial maximum. The subclade divergence for P37.2 occurred 10.7±4.8 kya (Rootsi 2004). The age of YSTR variation for the P37.2 subclade is 8.0±4.0 kya (Rootsi 2004). The age of YSTR variation for the M423 subclade is 8.8±3.6 kya (Underhill 2007). As far as know genetics don`t really suport the Albanian direct descendants of Illyrians theory.
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Post by Novus Dis on Jul 11, 2008 15:11:53 GMT -5
Of course there is tons of proofs but its a different thing if you refuse to accept it,you can close your eyes and ears and repeat to your self that albanians did not exist in balkans before serbs but dont be scared just peak to this, are you ready? ajde....! !Ptolemy and Albanaoi!! thats some concrete proof! now imagine if there was mentioned Serboi somewhere in balkans instead of Albanoi, that would be more than enough for you i mean that would be like brand or something and imagine if some albanian would argue that Ptolemys serboi in balkans is not the serbs hahaha... but at that time period when Ptolemy mentions Albanoi in central part of Albania the Serboi were somewhere between Carpath and Caspian sea! and its not only Ptolemys Albanaoi but tons of other proofs. Show me this proof.
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Jul 11, 2008 16:35:34 GMT -5
Of course there is tons of proofs but its a different thing if you refuse to accept it,you can close your eyes and ears and repeat to your self that albanians did not exist in balkans before serbs but dont be scared just peak to this, are you ready? ajde....! !Ptolemy and Albanaoi!! thats some concrete proof! now imagine if there was mentioned Serboi somewhere in balkans instead of Albanoi, that would be more than enough for you i mean that would be like brand or something and imagine if some albanian would argue that Ptolemys serboi in balkans is not the serbs hahaha... but at that time period when Ptolemy mentions Albanoi in central part of Albania the Serboi were somewhere between Carpath and Caspian sea! and its not only Ptolemys Albanaoi but tons of other proofs. Show me this proof. * In the 2nd century BC, the History of the World written by Polybius, mentions a city named Arbon in present day central Albania. The people who lived there were called Arbanios and Arbanitai. * In the 1st century AD, Pliny mentions an Illyrian tribe named Olbonenses. * In the 2nd century AD, Ptolemy, the geographer and astronomer from Alexandria, drafted a map of remarkable significance for the history of Illyria. This map shows the city of Albanopolis (located Northeast of Durrës). Ptolemy also mentions the Illyrian tribe named Albanoi, who lived around this city.* The earliest historical records about these Sarmatian Serboi dates from the 1st century, in the works of the historian Tacitus (ca. 50 AD) and geographer Pliny (Plinius) (69-75 AD).
* The Serbs were mentioned as Serboi by Pliny the Younger in his Geographica in the first century AD (69-75) as living on the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov.
* In the 5th century Herodotus writes in his Persian Wars that Serbs (Serboi, Sirboi) live behind the Caucasus, near the hinterland of the Black Sea.
*In the fourth century the Carpathians are mentioned as Montes Serrorum (Serb mountains?) by the Roman emperor Licinius
*In the Caucasus, the homeland of the Sarmatian Serbs, they left their traces around the river Volga (Araxes in Greek). In modern Georgian, that river is called "Rashki". This name was used by Balkan Serbs as a name for their first state and is found wherever the name Serb is found in clusters indicating settlements. It is often used to designate hydronyms and likely meant 'river' or 'water' in Old Serb.
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Jul 11, 2008 16:44:11 GMT -5
What kosovo/a means in Albanian is irrelevant. What is relevant is what does Dardhania mean in Serbian? Original name of "Kosovo" who cares about Kosova term, that found Othomans after occuping whole balcan ask serbs here did exited Kosova/o before othoman invasion? original name of Kosova was and should be Dardania or Dukagjini or North Arberia
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Jul 11, 2008 16:57:49 GMT -5
Does Serbia has any meaning in Serbian? "Land of the Serbs." had one theory that in dialect of Alan mean Slaves we albanians call Shkau or Shkije what adoptet from albanian version of Slaves term (Skllav)
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Post by kapetan on Jul 11, 2008 16:58:35 GMT -5
Look everyone can post ancient maps and propaganda all they want. But in the real world. Officialy. None of this is proven or fact. It's all theories. And the Thracian theory is just as strong language wise as the Illyrian. Some of the leading experts on the field don't think it's Albanians. Like John Wilkes for example. Even plenty of Albanian experts agree with him. Kaplan Resuli, Fatos Lubonja, Ardian Qosi and Ardian Vebiu. They are joined by many international critics: Paul, Hirt, Weigand, Tomashek, Georgiev, Pushcariu and many others. And the word of people on a forum, especialy Albanians who obviosly WANT it to be true, and Serbs who obviosly DON'T, is not gonna be more valid then what actual experts say. So give up. Not to mention genetic evidence doesn't really support anything close to "Albanians are the pure descendants of Illyrians". And genetics don't lie. There's still PLENTY s**t yet to be discovered and researched. Before anyone answers raving and screaming at me, remember I'm not a Serb and have nothing against the idea of Albanians claiming Illyrian heretige. But the fact remains it's just a theory and not a very strong one yet. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_Albaniansmembers.aol.com/Plaku/illyrian.htm Albanian site of Vebiu
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Jul 11, 2008 17:06:45 GMT -5
kapetan post which autor-genetist said genetically have not connection?, name?
and origin of thracian is after 1920 and are mainly by Romanian/Russian historian who refuse origin of bulgarians on thracian...hoverer Illyrian-thracian as Dacian had similarity language (who refered famous ancient greek historian Straboni).
p.s and for which maps you say propaganda? those are authentic by ancient historians?
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Post by kapetan on Jul 11, 2008 17:15:55 GMT -5
kapetan post which autor-genetist said genetically have not connection?, name? and origin of thracian is after 1920 and are mainly by Romanian/Russian historian who refuse origin of bulgarians on thracian...hoverer Illyrian-thracian as Dacian had similarity language (who refered famous ancient greek historian Straboni). p.s and for which maps you say propaganda? those are authentic by ancient historians? lol I just gave you a bunch of names. They all dissagree with it. Half of them are Albanian. Your own government adopted a policy of making people name their kids "ilyrian names" lol. This is a fact right? If you're a pure Indo-European people woudlnt you mostly have indo-european genes? Haplogroup I The haplogroup is almost non-existent outside of Europe, suggesting that it arose in Europe.Here's a chart of haplogroups by ethnicity. Albanians at the most have 23.6%. Kosovar Albanians only 2%. But look how abundant the other haplogroups are in you. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_haplogroups_by_ethnic_groupsand plz before arguing ...just read the Origin of Albanians wiki page. It has info from all sides pro and anti. You'l notice that the whole theory is based on language basicly. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_Albanians
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Jul 11, 2008 17:23:51 GMT -5
kapetan dont tire because there have not just 1 genetics who said againt connection between Albanian and Illyrian, you are just make propaganda like serbs.
2) wikipedia? you really considerate real source?, but who based from lingualy majority (over 95%) agree about illyrian and those 5% (are like Bulgarian historian Gorgiev support Dacian theory because some words have similarity beetwen Alb-Romanian but why should be Dacian and not Illyrian) and others theory are Macedonian, Thracian and Pre-Greek.)
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Post by kapetan on Jul 11, 2008 17:25:46 GMT -5
kapetan dont tire because there have not just 1 genetics who said againt connection beewen Albanian and Illyrian, you are just make propaganda like serbs. 2) wikipedia? you really considerate real source?, but who based from lingualy majority (over 95%) agree about illyrian and those 5% (are like Bulgarian historian Gorgiev support Dacian theory because some words have similarity beetwen Alb-Romanian but why should be Dacian and not Illyrian?0 others are Macedonian, Thracian and Pre-Greek.) Dude...I'm not claiming anything. I'm just saying there's plenty of experts who simply don't agree with it. And none of them are Serb and neither am I. If you're going to act like a Serb and call anything you don't like to hear propaganda, don't bother having a conversation. If you're suggesting someone went on Wiki and edited out the results so Albanians have low Haplogroup I ....you're just paranoid now LOl. besides you can find it on other sites, it's general genetic info. I'm sorry but expert's opinions are more important then mine and yours on a forum.
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Jul 11, 2008 17:33:07 GMT -5
kapetan you called my maps propaganda which more authentic like that you can't about find balcan maps even.
2) i said give me that genetist that claim you but you can't because dont have such claim...and who say here bull s**t?
i can posts even from greek historians (even are famous) who claim Albanians are real Greeks and Modern Greeks dont have connection, or have theory Albanians are descedand of Macedonians and Geeks dont have nothing about Macedonians and even ancient Greeks...they were themself historian Greek even famous in USA.
Why in your Wikipedia dont allowed Theory Ancient Macedonians and Ancient Greeks that have writet more article than Dacian theory?
those such claim are just tinny majority of Illyrologist (read: the historians who is specialitet only for illyrian history) almost 99% agreed about illyrian origin of Albanians.
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