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Post by chalkedon on Mar 17, 2009 7:48:24 GMT -5
^ I hope they recover, the alternative is not good at all...I mean in all honesty here...who would really want russia or china to control things ?
At least in the states, changes happen and so does foreign policy.
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Post by chalkedon on Mar 17, 2009 7:53:13 GMT -5
It is very small regards the Camp Steal and their new embassy in Fyrom. They dont do them this big just to avoid some rocks and coctail Molotovs by demonstrators.... Americans still try to build large ourposts in Armenia, in Iraq whilst try to have sustained ports for their NATO labelled navy ships in the Black Sea. Even though they are going through " bankruptcy groove", Americans still believe that they could retain their position as some " super power". Well, maybe in the next world. ;D Right. Americans may be preferring weakened Greece and Serbia in the Balkans, what do you reckon? As anti-american i was for the past 8 yrs due to the douchebag...i cant say i feel the same now. The WASP's really managed to fcuk things up, but we cant go on forever playing the paranoid conspiracy card. In Greece we have to change mentality, and in Turkey espescially. Right now US will work w/ both nations. Espescially in Turkey since there is a lot of issues the US wants to solve in the region. For the balkans and mediternnean...Greece will be asked to play its role. If we go around smashing banks, US embassies, and acting like a bunch of idiots then dont expect them to side with us. I think those days should be over. Im getting quite sick of it all...
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Post by Vizier of Oz on Mar 17, 2009 8:09:26 GMT -5
America will recover, Jenny. She might, but there will be a very high price of recovery, and the cost will be upon American tax payers, not upon the rest. ;D Overall, the US will never be able to stretch her muscles once she used to be. There will be no remedies to recover her political and military power.
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Post by Vizier of Oz on Mar 17, 2009 8:24:18 GMT -5
As anti-american i was for the past 8 yrs due to the douchebag...i cant say i feel the same now. The WASP's really managed to fcuk things up, but we cant go on forever playing the paranoid conspiracy card. It is nothing new. The USA has been sinking for decades, and they have been managing their empire through bankruptcy. The US will wish to work with Turkey, but it is hard to say the same for Turkey. Turkey does not consider the US as a stablizing power anymore. Those days are long gone. I think you should have better options than siding with some declining powers. ;D
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Post by chalkedon on Mar 17, 2009 8:48:22 GMT -5
As anti-american i was for the past 8 yrs due to the douchebag...i cant say i feel the same now. The WASP's really managed to fcuk things up, but we cant go on forever playing the paranoid conspiracy card. It is nothing new. The USA has been sinking for decades, and they have been managing their empire through bankruptcy. The US will wish to work with Turkey, but it is hard to say the same for Turkey. Turkey does not consider the US as a stablizing power anymore. Those days are long gone. I think you should have better options than siding with some declining powers. ;D No..they have not been sinking for decades. Just the last 8 yrs when the NeoCons took over. During Clintons term there was a huge surplus for America. All empires die out soon...that is a fact. But the US still has plenty left. Besides, who else can take over the role ? Turkey is very plsed to be working for the US like always....it will be business as usual Only difference now is that turks arent jew lovers anymore... So there goes the US-Turk-Jew triangle that worked so well for you, thanks to the islamic govt you have. And finally, as far as we greeks go...we dont side w/ declining powers. As a matter of fact, i am having a hard time figuring out on who we side with exactly. We are still an anarchic country, when I figure out who we side with...il let you know.
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Post by Vizier of Oz on Mar 17, 2009 10:38:04 GMT -5
No..they have not been sinking for decades. Just the last 8 yrs when the NeoCons took over. During Clintons term there was a huge surplus for America. All empires die out soon...that is a fact. But the US still has plenty left. Besides, who else can take over the role ? Yes, there was an exceptional trend for a year during Clinton's administration, he succeeded to have surplus for federal budget, but what really counts, it is the current account of given country. Used to be very true until late 1990s. At present, Turkey gradually drifts away from the Cold War Era policies. The US is no longer an ally as long as her policies do not perfectly fit into Turkish agenda. In Turkish agenda, major countries are Iran, Syria, Russia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Turkmenistan, and other Turkic countries of Central Asia. You guys are still trying to figure out how to act, I fully agree on that.
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Post by Kassandros on Mar 17, 2009 13:40:42 GMT -5
expatriot "I hope they recover, the alternative is not good at all...I mean in all honesty here...who would really want russia or china to control things ?" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ There is no need to have only one superpower. The more the better. That is what it needs to have equilubrium.
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Post by chalkedon on Mar 17, 2009 15:31:46 GMT -5
Vassili,
Having a mulit-polar world will never happen. Its never happened in the past, and it wont happen now. From ATG to Ceaser to somebody else...the world had always a dominant force somewhere.
The only time the world will work together will happen once we blow ourselves up to an oblivion and learn our lesson.
Russia is starting their new armament as of 2011. China already had a spat w/ the US over a Ship in their waters. We have limited resources and growing economies. I can assure you that each continent is gunning for their own interests.
I dont see things going too smooth on the global front for the next 50 yrs thats for sure. There is a lot of players that want to take the role of the next superpower. Question is....who do you prefer ?
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Post by Kassandros on Mar 17, 2009 16:43:26 GMT -5
I have a tottal different aspect on this issue. I'll explain..
Always USA was the big superpower. Russia was just a superpower. Except some small incidents until equilubrium is reached (Kuba for Americans, Aphganistans for Russians)... there was no a real real war.
The moment USA left alone... strong wars started in Balkans, Black Sea, Asia. Americans knew they had nothing to afraid and they start messing the world without fear. If USSR was still in power at that time... do you believe Americans would dare to attack the Arabs for their oils? Do you believe they would attack Yougoslavians? Do you believe they would rule the world the way the did lately?
What I want is one superpower (I dont care who is the One)... and 2-3 superpowers.. very close in military power!... to the first one. Fear must exist for the first One or else the One becomes uncontrolable.
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Post by chalkedon on Mar 20, 2009 8:16:07 GMT -5
The moment USA left alone... strong wars started in Balkans, Black Sea, Asia. Americans knew they had nothing to afraid and they start messing the world without fear. If USSR was still in power at that time... do you believe Americans would dare to attack the Arabs for their oils? Do you believe they would attack Yougoslavians? Do you believe they would rule the world the way the did lately? Good point...^^ But now Russia is back w/ a vengeance. The only war that the americans started without justification was and is this IRAQ war. Afghanistan in my opinion was fully justified...the taliban there should be exterminated, but that is a different story. It is good to have other powers to check and create balance. All I am saying is America is a mixed nation with many groups of ppl. No other country is like that, and this is a good thing. Not bad...
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Post by Kassandros on Mar 20, 2009 16:56:17 GMT -5
patriotis "But now Russia is back w/ a vengeance." --------------------------------------------------------- Strognly disagree. That is how Western Media tries to portay Russia. Is it bad to react when somebody tries to make a shiled with rockets... in front of you borders?! Is it bad they reacted in the made in USa attack of Georgia? Russia just reacts. Does not acts! Also they said it crystal clear; "We're read to discuss and stop any move if America stops that rocket shield and stops giving guns to Georgia". Where is the "vengeance" in this?
"The only war that the americans started without justification was and is this IRAQ war." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This is not enough? Who guarantees the next one will not be... in Balkans? Since they act without any control from UN... who guarantees what will be their next move?
"Afghanistan in my opinion was fully justified...the taliban there should be exterminated, but that is a different story." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- In Afghanistan, UN and.. Russia were in side of USA. Russians even helped US with a military base. If Russia was the "bad" evil as Western Media tries to portray her then they would never be with US against the attacker of US. Russia shows 10 times more dignity in these issues than Americans would show.
"It is good to have other powers to check and create balance. All I am saying is America is a mixed nation with many groups of ppl. No other country is like that, and this is a good thing. Not bad..." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That would be good IF.... WASPs didnt have the undisputed contol of US. Things are easy to be seen; "We're a country with variety... but if you're not a White AngloSaxon Protestant.. forget real Democracy".
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Post by chalkedon on Mar 24, 2009 8:25:22 GMT -5
"But now Russia is back w/ a vengeance." --------------------------------------------------------- Strognly disagree. That is how Western Media tries to portay Russia. Is it bad to react when somebody tries to make a shiled with rockets... in front of you borders?! Is it bad they reacted in the made in USa attack of Georgia? Russia just reacts. Does not acts! Also they said it crystal clear; "We're read to discuss and stop any move if America stops that rocket shield and stops giving guns to Georgia". Where is the "vengeance" in this? When I meant vengeance...I meant more powerfull. Russia re-acts and not acts because they are a fraction of a power they used to be in Soviet times. Even now, they admit military mistakes made in Georgia and want to modernize the army. Imagine that...against Georgia. I am for the Russians against Georgia so dont misunderstand me. As for the shield...guess what....that wont happen. Even Barak doesnt think its a good idea. Again this has to do with the Bush administration and not " america " I agree w/ russia in its position about the shield. "The only war that the americans started without justification was and is this IRAQ war." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This is not enough? Who guarantees the next one will not be... in Balkans? Since they act without any control from UN... who guarantees what will be their next move? There were and are many americans that are against the Iraq war. They hated it just as much as you and me. I dont think this will ever happen again. We cant allow actions taken by Bush to reflect all americans and future american presidents. Now if McCain was elected...I would be bashin america just like i was a couple months ago. The NeoCon Wasps are finished...and thank God for that"Afghanistan in my opinion was fully justified...the taliban there should be exterminated, but that is a different story." ---------------------------------------------------------------------- In Afghanistan, UN and.. Russia were in side of USA. Russians even helped US with a military base. If Russia was the "bad" evil as Western Media tries to portray her then they would never be with US against the attacker of US. Russia shows 10 times more dignity in these issues than Americans would show. I never said Russians were bad....im just saying we be carefull of what we wish for. We are talking about a country that massacred 20,000 Poles ( Katyn ) and acted like nothing happend. I had sympathy for the Russians because i didnt like the way the US made them collapse. I also had sympathy for the russians as a counterweight to Bush Administration. But russians will be russians and if they ever get too strong... We might wish for someone else to check them. "It is good to have other powers to check and create balance. All I am saying is America is a mixed nation with many groups of ppl. No other country is like that, and this is a good thing. Not bad..." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That would be good IF.... WASPs didnt have the undisputed contol of US. Things are easy to be seen; "We're a country with variety... but if you're not a White AngloSaxon Protestant.. forget real Democracy". I used to feel the EXACT same way Even months ago....never felt " american ". But that changed when we elected a black person for president. That is HUGE for something like that to happen. Believe me....I grew up there. Here in Greece its not a big deal, we have bakogiannis as FM and maybe prime minister one day. Greeks dont care about color or sex...as long as they get the job done and I admire this trait.Basil, if you read what the US founders said and what they believed in...you will understand that the US was designed as a real democracy with a tremendous amount of influence from Greece's history. Maybe they are what we should be here. I agree with you...it was bad for a long time. But things change over there....and that could happen in one night. How many other countries can say the same ?
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Post by chalkedon on Mar 24, 2009 8:44:14 GMT -5
One more thing and im done.... Do you know how many Greeks are in the US govt ? Do you realize that they help us where we cant do the job here ? Just read this article below... www.ethnos.gr/article.asp?catid=11378&subid=2&tag=8777&pubid=2754790This my friend is power and Greeks in the US govt definitly do have it. They protect our interests everyday while over here....we have corrupt politicians building homes on forests with our money. I love Greece more than I love myself...but i cannot protect it anymore from malakies that we do everyday. Ma ti Panagia, tous exo varethi tous politikous kai dimosiografous edo...den kanoun tipota kai klene kathe mera. Prepi kapoia stigmi na allaksi afto to nootropia oti eimaste 8ima. Eleos diladi...
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Post by Kassandros on Mar 24, 2009 12:27:17 GMT -5
Many hopefull words... and I hope they will come true... We have to wait and see Obama. I see you bet a lot on him... and I hope you're not wrong. I almost like him too...
But deep in my mind.. I have that feeling.. that he is not the one that rules... and these people who rule have nothing with American ideals... and they're pure Wasps in appereance and into their soul. Remember Kennedy case..... remember Florida votes...
I trouly believe that America has a weird form of dictarorship.. to explain... "yes you have the right to vote, to protest to do anything you want like in real democracy... but the outcome will be made by us! and dont try to opposse!".
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