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Post by radovic on Jan 17, 2008 14:26:59 GMT -5
radovic, keep denying, when the official statistics and commonly acknowledged facts is out there for you if you wish to seek the truth and to become a good human being, instead of being a extream nationalist. Official statistic much up to what I say. That the death toll is most likely around 5,000 and not 10,000. Commonly acknowledged facts do not means it's the truth. At one time it was a commonly acknowledged fact that the world was flat and that tthe earth revolved around the son. Lamarckism was once a commonly accepted fact. The simple fact is official statistics are closer to what i say. Also. I am not an extreme nationalist. This is just you ranting on since you can't make a counter argument to my post.
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Post by kasso on Jan 17, 2008 15:34:53 GMT -5
radovic,
commonly acknowledged facts are mostly backed up by evidence, your claim isn't
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Post by radovic on Jan 17, 2008 15:38:17 GMT -5
radovic, commonly acknowledged facts are mostly backed up by evidence, your claim isn't Actually my claim is based on facts. The 10,000 figures is a claim pressed by the media. It was not based on fact. 10,000 bodies haven't been found. All indications point to 5,000 deaths at most. Based on the bodies found & the fact that half the constant claim of 10,000 is likely given that the same is true for Croatia & Bosnia. Your claims are not based on fact.
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Post by kasso on Jan 17, 2008 15:45:08 GMT -5
Your claims are based on nationalistic point of view. My claims steems from official statistics, your claims have a manipulated nationalist dimension and agenda. Your claim is your fact which lacks evidence.
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Post by radovic on Jan 17, 2008 15:49:52 GMT -5
Your claims are based on nationalistic point of view. My claims steems from official statistics, your claims have a manipulated nationalist dimension and agenda. Your claim is your fact which lacks evidence. B.S. my claims claims are not from a nationalistic pont of view. My claims are more based on official statistics. Hense why you resort to calling me a nationalist to refute my arguments. You lack evidence. Your only evidence is "Oh it's been said so many times it must be true." If my claims are from a nationalist view I'd be denying any crimes happenned and claim the figure is below 2,000. I am not claiming this.
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Post by meltdown711 on Jan 17, 2008 19:55:06 GMT -5
The world recognizes 10,000, its sad that Serbs wish to downplay the crimes of their regime. Its sad and hinders progress and the healing of relations between the two groups.
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Fender
Commanding Moderator
Hardarse
Posts: 2,653
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Post by Fender on Jan 17, 2008 20:03:22 GMT -5
The world recognizes 10,000, its sad that Serbs wish to downplay the crimes of their regime. Its sad and hinders progress and the healing of relations between the two groups. Your wrong again. The world bodies recognise the figure to be approxiametly 3000, which includes ALL nationalities. Everything else is a fabrication of the truth.
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Post by kasso on Jan 18, 2008 5:12:12 GMT -5
Fender,
That's a complete lie. Accoding official data, Albanian civilians dead are numbered around 10,000. Serbian civilians dead are around 2000. There are still 2000 missing, the majority of them are of Albanian origin.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 18, 2008 6:07:23 GMT -5
Alright Kaso, and the raped muslim women at tuzla were about 20,000? I mean all the world press had confirmed it except the women themselves who were about less than 4-5.
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Post by kasso on Jan 18, 2008 7:02:05 GMT -5
I don't understand why human beings can be so cruel as denying and defending crimes against humanity and trying to minimizie and reject the real number of dead civilians killed by foreign forces.
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jan 18, 2008 7:45:52 GMT -5
The only cruel things in kosovo were done by Albs, NATO
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Post by radovic on Jan 18, 2008 9:52:51 GMT -5
Fender, That's a complete lie. Accoding official data, Albanian civilians dead are numbered around 10,000. Serbian civilians dead are around 2000. There are still 2000 missing, the majority of them are of Albanian origin. B.S. Again, it's not 2,000. My guess was 5,000 counting all the deaths in Kosovo + civilian deaths in Serbia due to NATO bombing. Fender indicates that the number for Kosovo is 3,000.
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donnie
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Nike Leka i Kelmendit
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Post by donnie on Jan 18, 2008 10:59:26 GMT -5
10,000 or 5,000 -- we're still dealing with thousands of deaths. If that's 'insignificiant' to the Serbs' eyes, I cannot but pitty you. Furthermore, these are only the deaths of the war 1998-99; ever since 1912, Kosova's history as an 'integrated' part of Serbia has been a bloody mess. All in all, the crimes of which Haradinaj and the KLA are accused of, as well as the crimes we as a people are accused of throughout the last century, pale in comparison to the systematic and deliberate campaigns of violence, opression and discrimination exercised by the Serbian nation against the Albanians of Kosova.
That is why the KLA emerged to begin with; that is why you're facing the de facto, and soon, de jure loss of Kosova (which was only "yours" by force).
As for Haradinaj; Fender seems confident he will get verdicted. I guess it is suicide alert if the opposite occurs. In either case, Haradinaj is a far better man than all Serbian militaries. Atleast he turned himself in voluntarily, as opposed to Serbian "patriots" Mladic & Karadzic who continue to block Serbia's euro-atlantic integration with their "retirement". Unlike most (p*ssyish) military leaders on the Serbian side, Haradinaj participated personally in battle, even in hand-to-hand combat against Serb soldiers ... unlike say Ratko Mladic who ordered the execution of 8,000 innocent Bosniak men and boys in Srebrenica from a comfortable distance. I mean, to even put Haradinaj's name next to Mladic or Karadzic, or any Serb criminal for that matter, appears hugely unfair.
If Ramush Haradinaj is guilty, I hope justice is served. But if this is a case of "political correctness", i.e. an attempt to 'equalize the guilt', then screw the Hague.
Fender couldn't recognize the truth even if it --EDIT--
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Post by Pejoni on Jan 18, 2008 12:00:02 GMT -5
--EDIT---
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Post by cando4u on Jan 18, 2008 12:12:58 GMT -5
--EDIT---
OFF TOPIC
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Post by radovic on Jan 18, 2008 14:21:56 GMT -5
Alright Kaso, and the raped muslim women at tuzla were about 20,000? I mean all the world press had confirmed it except the women themselves who were about less than 4-5. Saying it is 4-5 people is a bit of an understatment. I believe you are taking about the RTF crew. They were told in the western media that the number was 20,000. they came to sarasjevo and they were told it was 2000. The cantonal authorities in the tuzla area told them 200. In Tuzla the number turned out to be 20.
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Post by Pejoni on Jan 18, 2008 20:51:44 GMT -5
vinjak why did you delete my post, I only wrote "Hail Donnie".... stop being emotional.
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Fender
Commanding Moderator
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Post by Fender on Jan 19, 2008 6:41:29 GMT -5
10,000 or 5,000 -- we're still dealing with thousands of deaths. If that's 'insignificiant' to the Serbs' eyes, I cannot but pitty you. Furthermore, these are only the deaths of the war 1998-99; ever since 1912, Kosova's history as an 'integrated' part of Serbia has been a bloody mess. All in all, the crimes of which Haradinaj and the KLA are accused of, as well as the crimes we as a people are accused of throughout the last century, pale in comparison to the systematic and deliberate campaigns of violence, opression and discrimination exercised by the Serbian nation against the Albanians of Kosova. That is why the KLA emerged to begin with; that is why you're facing the de facto, and soon, de jure loss of Kosova (which was only "yours" by force). As for Haradinaj; Fender seems confident he will get verdicted. I guess it is suicide alert if the opposite occurs. In either case, Haradinaj is a far better man than all Serbian militaries. Atleast he turned himself in voluntarily, as opposed to Serbian "patriots" Mladic & Karadzic who continue to block Serbia's euro-atlantic integration with their "retirement". Unlike most (p*ssyish) military leaders on the Serbian side, Haradinaj participated personally in battle, even in hand-to-hand combat against Serb soldiers ... unlike say Ratko Mladic who ordered the execution of 8,000 innocent Bosniak men and boys in Srebrenica from a comfortable distance. I mean, to even put Haradinaj's name next to Mladic or Karadzic, or any Serb criminal for that matter, appears hugely unfair. If Ramush Haradinaj is guilty, I hope justice is served. But if this is a case of "political correctness", i.e. an attempt to 'equalize the guilt', then screw the Hague. Fender couldn't recognize the truth even if it --EDIT-- So the numbers to you no longer matter. Whether its 10,000, 5,000 or less. Just as long as you can manipulate figures to to suit your argumnet. that is being disigenious at best and a full on hypocrit at worst. And you want to talk about the truth to me. You wouldn't know the truth if it stood up and slapped you silly. As I have said before and your answer clearly shows it, your a KLA apologist of the worst kind. You obviously know the ins and outs of the organisation but try to convice others you are on the fringe. Nothing could be further from the truth. You are here on these forums to do one thing and one thing only and thats to spread untruths about the situation on a constant basis. Well my boy, you have well and truly hit a brickwall with me on that because every one of your untruths will always bounce back and slap you in the face.
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Post by kasso on Jan 19, 2008 7:32:47 GMT -5
Fender, according to your statistics civilians dead are about 3000. You say the figure is backed up by world boides, which world bodies? According to world bodies, the civilians dead are more than 10,000. Why do you manipulate figures and fudge on claims? It's really digusting to deny the real death toll, either deliberately or unconscious (both way is wrong).
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Jan 19, 2008 8:13:12 GMT -5
Fender
You wouldn't recognize the truth if it so dated your mom and fathered you some siblings. To claim you're representing it is laughable at best.
Numbers do play a role, and whether we use your fake numbers or realistic ones, it is still a matter of institutionalized violence aimed at ethnically cleansing a whole province. And 1998-99 is only the tip of an iceberg.
My task in this forum has been to defend the arguments for our justified quest for freedom and independence. You, however, have been suspiciously pro-Serb under the cover of being"Croat" ever since your arrival ... stopping at no end to justify the bloody presence of Serb occupiers in not only Kosova, but also Bosnia and even "your" Croatia. So spare me your lectures, they're as valuable as used topilet paper.
One advice though; if you want to act "objective", atleast try to denounce Mladic and other Serb criminals once in a while. Even some, very few, moderate Serbs do it. It would cover your preposterous role better.
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