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Post by Kassandros on Jun 28, 2008 4:13:32 GMT -5
The trouth is that my main problem with the Ottoman occupation was not all the above mentioned stuff. We.. in Serres, Macedonia.... had our Greek schools where Greek language and heritage was teached...we had our churches where someone could preserve his Christian religion (under some pain ofcourse )....we had our own administration from local priests etc etc. My main problem is the lost Greek population who converted to Islam and today are the inhabitants of West Turkey. It was a huge part of population... and it was a bit trauma for Greece as a nation. Even today, when I see a Turk with the obvious Greek/Med characteristics speaking phanatically in favor of and Kemal and Turkey... I have mixed feelings. I really dont know if I really have to hate him or just be quite full of sorrow. Of course Greeks lost a huge portion of their population in all the colonies of Balkans and Med. All these people and their ancestors today are named as Italians, as Spaniards, as Fyromians, as Albanians, as Bulgarians, as Russians, as Georgians etc etc. But at least.. they dont belong to states that made them Jannisaries against Greece. In Turkey is... so... pathetic.. I really cant cope with it when I see people from west Turkish cities... and when I see people from eastern Turkey, the real Turks. Its so obvious that I really cant understand how they feel themselves when they see at the mirrors how different they are.
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Post by Kassandros on Jun 28, 2008 4:26:23 GMT -5
...by the way.. about the grannies... guys I really like that. Thats the heritage of Balkans. That is how the grannies are in my village too. They're sitting at the windows or the porches of the houses and just observe around them.... how the world changes. Dont forget that these people were born in the begging of 19th century. Do you know what they have seen with their own eyes?! Do you know what they were been through?! How do you expect to have energy to do various things and be very active and bla bla bla. Most of these grannies have lost 1-2 sons, husbands and brothers in wars that were taking place every second! Then they had to grow up alone their 5-6 children left. Working all day in the fields... and back in the home at night (usually a home without electricity).... with ucountable walkings just to bring water and woods in the house (usually on their soldeurs)... and feed their children with bread and tomato. Can you understand what they have been through? I doubt anyone in this forum has the guts to live one year of his life with the strength the were living all their lives. Most of us will get crazy and will face serious psychological problems the first 2 weeks. I remember a grandpa watching TV series "Survivor".... laughing and saying..... they are doing it for one month.. and they earn so much money. I did it all my life... and I'm poor.. Also I love one them the way they look things. They dont envy!! They dont care if the car they see outside their home is a Mercedes or a Zastava. As far as it can take you in the fields and bring you back... they love it. Guys... respect...
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Post by yahadj on Jun 28, 2008 8:37:30 GMT -5
Well they wanted to do it and they did it. And that happened 4-5 centuries ago. Why that bothers you now. Do we have to worry about Americans, for example? Most of them are converts from many different nations? Who cares? If somebody undertakes something that relates to his own life, who else has anything to say?
There is nothing to worry about issues that happened in the past. No use of regrets. The issues of the past can't be a source for regret to the people of today. Because people should only regret about thing they did, not about things that were done by others, no matter if they were their ancestors. If there was anybody to regret that was our grand grand fathers. That was their time. They had their share in their time. If they were weak nothong is going to change it now. If they were bad, well sorry they were bad. Nobody is responsible for the sins of others. Thus, it is not us to be blamed. We live in today.
We live now and in this new world. Our ancestors died long time ago. And we will die soon, too. Whatever our ancestors were able to do they did it in their time. We in our limited lifetime are supposed to do things confined to our time and based on our intellectual and material capacity.
Turks can whine about their lost big Empire, too. But what is the use? Each of us has his own potential. Why don't we use it now and do our contribution to humankind, may be even better than our ancestors?
We should not mourn about history but we should get lessons. We don't have to defend the wrongdoings of our ancestors just because the blood relationship. We need to be on the side of the Truth and Good.
PEACE
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Post by yahadj on Jun 28, 2008 8:41:01 GMT -5
...by the way.. about the grannies... guys I really like that. Thats the heritage of Balkans. That is how the grannies are in my village too. They're sitting at the windows or the porches of the houses and just observe around them.... how the world changes. Dont forget that these people were born in the begging of 19th century. Do you know what they have seen with their own eyes?! Do you know what they were been through?! How do you expect to have energy to do various things and be very active and bla bla bla. Most of these grannies have lost 1-2 sons, husbands and brothers in wars that were taking place every second! Then they had to grow up alone their 5-6 children left. Working all day in the fields... and back in the home at night (usually a home without electricity).... with ucountable walkings just to bring water and woods in the house (usually on their soldeurs)... and feed their children with bread and tomato. Can you understand what they have been through? I doubt anyone in this forum has the guts to live one year of his life with the strength the were living all their lives. Most of us will get crazy and will face serious psychological problems the first 2 weeks. I remember a grandpa watching TV series "Survivor".... laughing and saying..... they are doing it for one month.. and they earn so much money. I did it all my life... and I'm poor.. Also I love one them the way they look things. They dont envy!! They dont care if the car they see outside their home is a Mercedes or a Zastava. As far as it can take you in the fields and bring you back... they love it. Guys... respect... basilmacedon, I totally agree with you. Sometimes we are so quick to judge without any serious thinking about the issues. That part we usually overlook. Thanks for the insightful comment!
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rex362
Senior Moderator
Pellazg
PELASGIANILLYROALBANIAN
Posts: 19,058
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Post by rex362 on Jun 28, 2008 12:59:41 GMT -5
rex, we're talkin about 400 yrs occupation. The slavs were under control..a little rowdy, but still under control... the slavs weakened the Byzantine empire ...it made it easy for the Ottomans to walk in .....
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Post by telemaque on Jun 28, 2008 14:17:00 GMT -5
true...+ the crusaders who once plundered Byz...
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PARIS DIO_MYSUS!
Amicus
It's Nice to be Important but It's more Important to be Nice!
Posts: 3,681
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Post by PARIS DIO_MYSUS! on Jun 28, 2008 14:21:01 GMT -5
Be United east and west and do right thing in the right moment now more than ever !!!! Enough Is Enough. No more brothers against brothers that roman bullshiit and denigrated strategy wanted ;D.
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Post by Kassandros on Jun 29, 2008 4:09:03 GMT -5
Yahac "Well they wanted to do it and they did it. And that happened 4-5 centuries ago. Why that bothers you now. Do we have to worry about Americans, for example? Most of them are converts...We should not mourn about history but we should get lessons. We don't have to defend the wrongdoings of our ancestors just because the blood relationship. We need to be on the side of the Truth and Good." ---------------------------------------------------------- You're very right Yahac. I agree with your sayings. It was their choice. It just..... dont make me feel comfortable. You know... as far as things with Turkey are not tottaly solved... there is always the shadow of a future war above, the casious belli. In case of a war... you prefer to fight with people you feel they are alliens to you. When there is a kind of blood connection... and you know it...... it will be a very uncomfortable war.. In other words... you may shoot one relative of yours.. someone that you share the same blood... without even knowing it. Lets say its not the best option.
Ofcourse my thoughts will change if a long and standing peace and proggress ever occur Greece and Turkey.
Who knows.. we'll see. It was just a thought.
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Post by yahadj on Jun 29, 2008 16:54:56 GMT -5
basilmacedon, I understand your concerns. May be we should focus on our common qualities more than the bad experiences and move on. We can be the best neighbors if we have the good intentions. Can't we? So, let's forget about the feelings of hatred and try to prove ourself worthier than our ancestors. I think we can do better tha them. Why not? PEACE
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Post by panagiotopoulos on Jun 30, 2008 18:58:26 GMT -5
^^^^ Are you a woman or a man? Its hard to tell but I think this is definitely your feminine side.
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Post by Teuta1975 on Jun 30, 2008 20:50:14 GMT -5
If you're talking to Yahac, then females should rule the world. ;D ;D
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Post by SKORIC on Jul 1, 2008 5:16:07 GMT -5
Here in America my grandparents use to do that but they would sit inside the den with the T.V but position themselves by the door that they can see outside. I used to get a kick out of it. Anytime a cat or something would come in the front yard my grandfather would jump up real quick run to the porch and grab the hose to spray the cat or grab a B.B gun to shoot it. And he would yell real loud, "GET OUT OF HERE!" I used to laugh so hard. LOLL
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Post by Kassandros on Jul 2, 2008 16:56:06 GMT -5
Nice thoughts Yahac... but "deep state" has different options. They prefer "casus bellis" than peace. So.. we obey.
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