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Post by sweetnugs on Nov 4, 2008 0:40:17 GMT -5
I think that cross says it all, but really to raise money for more churches...what for???!!!!! the more the merrier ;D A sta dosadne ustaske pickurine kao Vi namjeravate da poduzmete u vezi onih Bosancerosa sto su otisli vani u svijet stekli bogastvo i sad imaju u planu re-formirati strukturu Neuma? Zamisli da su medju njima hardcore Bosnjaci koji mrze pojedine Hrvate iz inata (ili su iz Hercegovine sto znaci da imaju veoma dobar razlog da budu kivni na njih) pocnu kupovati vikendice po Neumu i onda usput naprave koju dzamiju samo da se prokurce?
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CiKoLa
Amicus
Gotovina Heroj!
Posts: 3,728
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Post by CiKoLa on Nov 4, 2008 0:47:17 GMT -5
A sta dosadne ustaske pickurine kao Vi namjeravate da poduzmete u vezi onih Bosancerosa sto su otisli vani u svijet stekli bogastvo i sad imaju u planu re-formirati strukturu Neuma?Evo ovako po nosu : ;D Neum, jedino bosanskohercegovačko morsko ljetovalište, potresaju sukobi domaćih Hrvata i gostiju Bošnjaka. Sve je eskaliralo masovnom tučnjavom na neumskoj plaži u kasne noćne sate minulog vikenda. U tučnjavi su ozlijeđena trojica Bošnjaka, a privedena četvorica mladih Neumljana, pod sumnjom da su Bošnjacima nanijeli teške tjelesne ozljede. Po pisanju bosanskih medija, Bošnjaci su jedva izvukli žive glave pobjegavši iz Neuma. Jedan od sudionika sukoba rekao je da su ih Bošnjaci stalno provocirali na nacionalnoj osnovi te da je jednoga od njih samo udario šakom, dok je drugi nepažljivo pao sa zida i slomio nogu, što mu je u bolnici u Mostaru okvalificirano kao teža tjelesna ozljeda. Stanovnici Neuma s kojima smo o ovom problemu razgovarali u ponedjeljak, nemoćno su slijegali ramenima. Ističu da im se teško boriti s huliganima iz Sarajeva, Zenice, Tuzle i drugih bosanskih gradova koji u srcu sezone u Neumu provociraju domaće stanovnike i narušavaju javni red i mir. Po cijelu noć kliču “Allahu ekber“, "Selam alejkum", "Ubij ustaše"... "Uzmu pet-šest gajbi piva, isprazne ih pa udri. Ne daju mira čitavome Neumu. Uznemiravaju sve, i Hrvate i Bošnjake koji su se došli odmoriti u Neum", kaže iznajmljivačica apartmana u kući na neumskoj plaži, moleći nas da joj ne objavljujemo ime, jer navodi da među njezinim gostima ima puno Bošnjaka koji zbog ovih huligana u večernjim satima ostaju u svojim apartmanima. Ravnatelj policije Hercegovačko-neretvanske županije Himzo Đonko zbog događanja u Neumu kao pojačanje ovdašnjoj policiji uputit će policajce iz Čapljine, a najavljen je dolazak i specijalne postrojbe. Međutim, jučer u Neumu nisu viđeni specijalci niti su zamijećene pojačane policijske ophodnje na prepunim neumskim plažama. Načelnik općine Neum Đuro Obradović kaže da problem sigurnosti u Neumu nije nimalo veći od drugih gradova na jadranskoj obali. "Nažalost, ovaj incident dodatno su napuhali mediji, što šteti turizmu u Neumu. U naš grad su svi dobro došli bez obzira na nacionalnost, što se može vidjeti po prepunim neumskim plažama. Općinska vlast sa pripadnicima MUP-a će poduzeti sve mjere da se gosti i domaći ljudi osjećaju sigurno", zaključio je Obradović u izjavi za Slobodnu Dalmaciju. www.poskok.info/content/view/13563/196/
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Trazi Vise
Amicus
Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
Posts: 3,126
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Post by Trazi Vise on Nov 4, 2008 0:59:49 GMT -5
Tone down the language Shatterstar..it's not about provocations, it's about rebuilding a town which many other towns are in the same position. Who cares where the money comes from! I know that the money they receive from the outside is not from me, I don't support this church rebulding scenarios.
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tyson
Amicus
Posts: 1,256
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Post by tyson on Nov 4, 2008 3:14:22 GMT -5
Uh huh and before that.......and before that.....and before that..... In other words, at some point it gets retarted going "and before that". that "croatia" and those slavs have even less to do with the modern croatia and modern croats then the medeival bosnia has to do with today's. but seriosly if you all wonna 'go back" to he first significant identity and ownership....then we should all proclaim ourselves illyrian and pagan, it would solve everything. since you guys love going back so much. but bosnians were slavs, and you cant use the native ancestry claim, coz all major nations of the balkans have native ancestry, as all the old balkans peoples were assimilated and absorbed into the new ruling nations. we all have some native blood, but the fact is that the croats were the first slavs to rule the region of bosnia , after the croats defeated the avars in the 7th century. the croats lived and ruled that land for nearly 4 centuries before an independant bosnian kingdom was established. and when it was established it was made up of the same people who were living there before, which were croats. they established their own state within the lands of what was the croatian kingdom, because they didnt want to be part of a joint hungarian crown. croats are to bosnians what germans are to austrians. both the same peoples but developed their own dynasties.
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tyson
Amicus
Posts: 1,256
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Post by tyson on Nov 4, 2008 3:24:21 GMT -5
and once again, neum is geographically located in the region of hercegovina, within the republic of BiH. it is also to note that croats in neum consider themselves in a regional sense herzegovinans, and some consider themselves dalmatians or both. but no croats in neum consider themselves regionally "bosnians" For the past 13 years Bosniaks from all over Bosnia and even America have been settling down in Neum like never before. There are even plans on rebuilding the old mosque. And in the latest local elections more then 20% of the votes went to pro-Bosnian parties which indicates that you guys are totally wrong as usual. lol, i highly doubt that bosniaks are settling there as much as you claim them to be. last time i was in neum which was back in june & july this year, the place is very much an overwhelmingly croat inhabited town. most of the shops are croats owned, and accept kuna currency. i believe that there is possibly a decent amount of bosniaks coming for a vacation in neum, as i've seen a couple cars with female passengers with hijabs going to neum from the direction of hutovo when we were driving on the road going to stolac from neum to visit the brother of my godfather. There are even plans on rebuilding the old mosque. what old mosque? since when was there ever a mosque in neum? And in the latest local elections more then 20% of the votes went to pro-Bosnian parties which indicates that you guys are totally wrong as usual. that doesnt mean that those votes were all made by bosniaks
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Post by fazlinho on Nov 4, 2008 10:44:59 GMT -5
Uh huh and before that.......and before that.....and before that..... In other words, at some point it gets retarted going "and before that". that "croatia" and those slavs have even less to do with the modern croatia and modern croats then the medeival bosnia has to do with today's. but seriosly if you all wonna 'go back" to he first significant identity and ownership....then we should all proclaim ourselves illyrian and pagan, it would solve everything. since you guys love going back so much. but bosnians were slavs, and you cant use the native ancestry claim, coz all major nations of the balkans have native ancestry, as all the old balkans peoples were assimilated and absorbed into the new ruling nations. we all have some native blood, but the fact is that the croats were the first slavs to rule the region of bosnia , after the croats defeated the avars in the 7th century. the croats lived and ruled that land for nearly 4 centuries before an independant bosnian kingdom was established. and when it was established it was made up of the same people who were living there before, which were croats. they established their own state within the lands of what was the croatian kingdom, because they didnt want to be part of a joint hungarian crown. croats are to bosnians what germans are to austrians. both the same peoples but developed their own dynasties. Croats were the first (of the 2 peoples who somehow try to assert it's nationhood on Bosnia, the other being the Serbs) who got to rule over Bosnia. Rulers =not people who are there. Bosnia has been inhabited since the neolithic age. Genetics have proven that Bosnians have the most of Illyrian blood, thus no major Croat migration in Bosnia could have happened. That Croats did rule over Bosnia, that they left an impact on her is obvious, but that Croats are the descendants of nowadays Bosniaks is pure nonsense. As I always said, they felt such Croats that in the very first Bosnian document we have there's a clear distinction between Bosnians and Croats, centuries before the arrival of Islam. So that's why Bosnians can't be to Croats what Austrians are to Germans. since centuries, it ceased to be there when the Ottomans departed. I also heard it is planned to be rebuilt again.
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Post by fazlinho on Nov 4, 2008 10:48:20 GMT -5
I think that cross says it all, but really to raise money for more churches...what for???!!!!! the more the merrier ;D Uh uh utrka je počela ;D ako bude potrebe biće i više džamija ;D
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Post by tito on Nov 4, 2008 11:03:24 GMT -5
And in the latest local elections more then 20% of the votes went to pro-Bosnian parties which indicates that you guys are totally wrong as usual. that doesnt mean that those votes were all made by bosniaks It means exactly what I said: Neum is a Croat majority town 99 percent or so the population is pretty much 95% Croat. According to the latest population census from 1991 croats had 87% in Neum back then. For the past 13 years Bosniaks from all over Bosnia and even America have been settling down in Neum like never before. There are even plans on rebuilding the old mosque. And in the latest local elections more then 20% of the votes went to pro-Bosnian parties which indicates that you guys are totally wrong as usual.
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Post by fazlinho on Nov 4, 2008 11:09:52 GMT -5
Tito brate, da ima 5% Bošnjaka u Neumu ja bi bio sretan, ali realno govoreći, nema. Može bit da grade mnogo vikendica i toga, što je i normalno, i ja da sam pun para bi izgradio vikenicu na Bosanskom primorju, ali ne znam ko bi normalan išao da ŽIVI u Neumu. Pa Hrvati iz Neuma traže posao van njega, gdje bi Bošnjak tamo išao da živi.
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Post by tito on Nov 4, 2008 11:33:18 GMT -5
Tito brate, da ima 5% Bošnjaka u Neumu ja bi bio sretan, ali realno govoreći, nema. 5% u OPCINI Neum znaci 200-250 Bosnjaka, ja sam siguran da nas ima vise. U gradu Neum 10-20%, a ljeti 80% Može bit da grade mnogo vikendica i toga, što je i normalno, i ja da sam pun para bi izgradio vikenicu na Bosanskom primorju, ali ne znam ko bi normalan išao da ŽIVI u Neumu. Pa Hrvati iz Neuma traže posao van njega, gdje bi Bošnjak tamo išao da živi. Neum zivi od Bosnjacki turista, zato se Bosnjacima isplati kolonizacija Neuma. Ja kad sam u Neumu zivim u apartmanu ciji je gazda Bosnjak iz istocne Bosne, tu rade samo Bosnjaci, isto tako restoran i prodavnica u blizini apartmana. Hrvati koji se sele iz Neuma ne zele ziviti od Bosnjackog turizma. Visoko skolovani hrvati imaju Dubrovnik i Split sta ce im Neum.
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tyson
Amicus
Posts: 1,256
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Post by tyson on Nov 4, 2008 16:39:55 GMT -5
Croats were the first (of the 2 peoples who somehow try to assert it's nationhood on Bosnia, the other being the Serbs) who got to rule over Bosnia. Rulers =not people who are there. Bosnia has been inhabited since the neolithic age. Genetics have proven that Bosnians have the most of Illyrian blood, thus no major Croat migration in Bosnia could have happened. That Croats did rule over Bosnia, that they left an impact on her is obvious, but that Croats are the descendants of nowadays Bosniaks is pure nonsense. As I always said, they felt such Croats that in the very first Bosnian document we have there's a clear distinction between Bosnians and Croats, centuries before the arrival of Islam. So that's why Bosnians can't be to Croats what Austrians are to Germans. what nonsense. croats were the first slavs to rule this area, and they did migrate and settle bosnia, its just that the old balkan peoples that were living there before were completely assimilated by the croats, and in turn intermarried with each other, so the 2 peoples became one. bosnians arent anymore native to bosnia than dalmatians are to dalmatia. yes, croats are very much to bosnians what germans are to austrians. the reason why theres any distinction is because bosnia became its own independant state, so the peoples are referred to as bosnians. its not rocket science.
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Post by fazlinho on Nov 5, 2008 2:39:20 GMT -5
Croats were the first (of the 2 peoples who somehow try to assert it's nationhood on Bosnia, the other being the Serbs) who got to rule over Bosnia. Rulers =not people who are there. Bosnia has been inhabited since the neolithic age. Genetics have proven that Bosnians have the most of Illyrian blood, thus no major Croat migration in Bosnia could have happened. That Croats did rule over Bosnia, that they left an impact on her is obvious, but that Croats are the descendants of nowadays Bosniaks is pure nonsense. As I always said, they felt such Croats that in the very first Bosnian document we have there's a clear distinction between Bosnians and Croats, centuries before the arrival of Islam. So that's why Bosnians can't be to Croats what Austrians are to Germans. what nonsense. croats were the first slavs to rule this area, and they did migrate and settle bosnia, its just that the old balkan peoples that were living there before were completely assimilated by the croats, and in turn intermarried with each other, so the 2 peoples became one. bosnians arent anymore native to bosnia than dalmatians are to dalmatia. yes, croats are very much to bosnians what germans are to austrians. the reason why theres any distinction is because bosnia became its own independant state, so the peoples are referred to as bosnians. its not rocket science. But... your whole point is proven wrong by the fact that they weren't assimilated! DNA proves you wrong, so I don't know what else do I need to say. The distinction is there because the Bosnian rulers of Bosnia never called themselves Croats.
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tyson
Amicus
Posts: 1,256
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Post by tyson on Nov 5, 2008 3:20:24 GMT -5
^ how is my point proven wrong? is your opinion that it was a fact they werent assimilated because of DNA? lol, i have just told you before that all the major nations of the balkans have native blood, from the native population who have assimilated and intermarried with the new settling slavs until both peoples are one. why do you bosniaks think you speak a slavic tongue, and that it is practically identicall to the tongue that croats speak?...... because the croatian nation gave you your language. you speak the same language as us, which is proof that the native peoples of bosnia were assimilated and intermarried with the croat population so the 2 peoples became one. this is the same for the croats in dalmatia and elsewhere. the inhabitants of bosnia were called bosnians because they were the citizens of that kingdom, therefore they are referred to as bosnians. back then, being a bosnian was a national & regional identity. it was only after the ottoman conquest of bosnia, and its converts to islam, did the 1 peoples split in 2,..... the old bosnian catholics who despised the ottoman turks, and the bosnian converts to islam who became the ottoman turks most loyal subjects. the 2 communitites were split in 2, and the old bosnian catholics saw the bosnian converts as traitors. the 2 communitites did not associate with each other for a very long time. it was only in the 20th century that an idea of an ethnic bosnian identity was flirted with by bosnian muslims.
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Post by kapetan on Nov 5, 2008 3:23:49 GMT -5
what nonsense. croats were the first slavs to rule this area, and they did migrate and settle bosnia, its just that the old balkan peoples that were living there before were completely assimilated by the croats, and in turn intermarried with each other, so the 2 peoples became one. bosnians arent anymore native to bosnia than dalmatians are to dalmatia. yes, croats are very much to bosnians what germans are to austrians. the reason why theres any distinction is because bosnia became its own independant state, so the peoples are referred to as bosnians. its not rocket science. But... your whole point is proven wrong by the fact that they weren't assimilated! DNA proves you wrong, so I don't know what else do I need to say. The distinction is there because the Bosnian rulers of Bosnia never called themselves Croats. not to mention ruling a land doesnt mean shit about ita population. especialy in a pAlce borders shifted like the wind.
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tyson
Amicus
Posts: 1,256
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Post by tyson on Nov 5, 2008 3:33:26 GMT -5
^ okay, so that makes you guys either croats or serbs. there was never a separate bosnian slavic speaking tribe. a bosnian ethnicity was made as a neutral alternative to being croat or serb. some of the muslims liked the idea, and campaigned for muslims to support this, and their leaders did so, and it seemed to have worked.
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CiKoLa
Amicus
Gotovina Heroj!
Posts: 3,728
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Post by CiKoLa on Nov 5, 2008 6:51:39 GMT -5
Tito brate, da ima 5% Bošnjaka u Neumu ja bi bio sretan, ali realno govoreći, nema.
that must hurt. LOL.
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Post by SKORIC on Nov 5, 2008 6:53:49 GMT -5
Bosnia is Serbian because Serbs are the dominent species in all the land.
^ True
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CiKoLa
Amicus
Gotovina Heroj!
Posts: 3,728
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Post by CiKoLa on Nov 5, 2008 7:01:41 GMT -5
muslims cant swim anyways ... i dont know why they come to our Hercegovian coast?!
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Post by tito on Nov 5, 2008 7:30:40 GMT -5
muslims cant swim anyways ... i dont know why they come to our Hercegovian coast?! Dzihad
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Post by fazlinho on Nov 5, 2008 12:06:15 GMT -5
Giving a language to a people doesn't mean making it the same people as you, it also doesn't mean intermarring at all. Brazilians would never tell you they are Portugueses (or how the hell you say that in English), they still are Brazilians. A Mexican ain't a Spaniard. And surely a Mexican isn't to a Spaniard what an Austrian is to a German. OR if that is what you actually had in mind, speaking strictly of a language relationship, than ok, I agree.
Hmm, ok, that we also have some Turkish, Hungarian, Arab blood as well I agree.
And after I got to agree with you, why do you contradict yourself? You first say Bosnians are a mix of many peoples, than we are Croats? Are we also Turks?? as they got to rule over us for more than Croats did.
A tribe who migrated and stuff, no, there were illyrians first, slavs came, and people in the territory of Bosnia when writing about them would refer to themselves as Bosnians, not Croats nore Serbs, even though nominating them in the same context as Bosnians. It was really not an alternative to everything, it's simply how people thought of themselves. In ottoman times, given the religious context of the state, national consciousness didn't really matter much, nore for Bosnians, nore for Croats, nore for Serbs, but when people would speak about nations in Bosnia,they would speak of Bosnians, Serbs and Croats.
?
I really don't give a fuck, and I'm serious, as I told tito first I don't even understand why should someone go to live in Neum. The general global trend is urbanization, so I don't understand people going to live in rural places.
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