Trazi Vise
Amicus
Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
Posts: 3,126
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Post by Trazi Vise on Dec 6, 2008 16:06:57 GMT -5
That's what Alija did also, so why is he different to these guys?
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Post by theblackswans on Dec 6, 2008 23:37:27 GMT -5
If Fikret Abdic stayed on as leader of the SDA, there would've never been a war. What he did in the war was protect the best interests of the people that believed in and that he represented (Velika Kladusa) instead of some ideology by a fundamentalist Muslim in Sarajevo (Izetbegovic). If there is any non-Serb leader I can hold in high esteem, it is him (eventhough he never did anything for the benefit of my people). He is also proof that this war was never about Serb vs. Muslim. It was about resisting the autocratic and fundamentalist tendencies of the SDA Muslims led by Izetbegovic. As I said a propaganda victory for Serbs albeit a small one... Never did anything for Serbs huh? Well he had about 40,000 armed soldiers and police who fought the HV, HVO and the 5th Korpus. Although they fought with the same cowardice that the VRS/RSK showed.
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Post by theblackswans on Dec 6, 2008 23:37:55 GMT -5
If Fikret Abdic stayed on as leader of the SDA, there would've never been a war. What he did in the war was protect the best interests of the people that believed in and that he represented (Velika Kladusa) instead of some ideology by a fundamentalist Muslim in Sarajevo (Izetbegovic). If there is any non-Serb leader I can hold in high esteem, it is him (eventhough he never did anything for the benefit of my people). He is also proof that this war was never about Serb vs. Muslim. It was about resisting the autocratic and fundamentalist tendencies of the SDA Muslims led by Izetbegovic. Give me a f**kin' break. Best interest of WHAT people? Not mine. There was no fundamentalist Muslim leader, that's a pathetic Serbian propaganda invention. I HATE Riadical Islam, and I HATE religon period, I'd be first to admit if Alija was Bin Laden, but not even close. It's just an easy picture to paint. But we all know he was nowhere near as radical as the other scumbags invovled in this. Scumbags like Karadzic. You people been trying to play this pathetic "radical Islam" card for over a decade. Then some idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about repeats what he heard like a parrot and says "Islamic Declaration! islamic Declaration!" Lawl. 100% true!
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tyson
Amicus
Posts: 1,256
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Post by tyson on Dec 7, 2008 0:04:44 GMT -5
Abdic never considered himself a Bosniak then what does he consider himself?... the old pre-1991 muslim identity, ie. "Muslim by nationality" ? a velikokladusac?... a zapadnobosnjak? Now that the war has ended Serbs are nowhere to be found arround kladusa, Abdic and his cronies became Croats over night and now they are kissing Croat ass. Some people will be "prodane duse" no matter what and for what? For f**kin chicken paste. abdic and his cronies became croats?.... this is the first time i heard of this. i've never heard of abdic calling himself croat.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Dec 7, 2008 1:11:51 GMT -5
Does anyone else has doubts that something doesn't look right in this; ----- After his release from prison, he joined the Party of Democratic Action just 24 hours before the 1990 elections were scheduled[6] and ran for the Presidency of Bosnia and Herzegovina. Under the erstwhile constitution, voters elected seven members to the presidency; two Bosniaks, two Serbs, two Croats and one Yugoslav. Abdic and his future rival Alija Izetbegovic ran for the two Bosniak positions, and were both elected. Once the positions were filled, the members of the presidency elected a President of the Presidency who acted as its head. Although Abdic won more popular votes than Izetbegovic, Abdic did not assume office for reasons which remain unclear.[5]
According to NIN, when the Bosnian War broke out, Abdic briefly appeared in Sarajevo hoping to assume presidency after Izetbegovic had been arrested by the Yugoslav People's Army. However, he was preempted as Izetbegovic had already named Ejup Ganic for that position.[5] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fikret_Abdi%C4%87------- It appears that Abdic (the legitimate representative of Bosniaks) was somehow taken out of the political equation by fundamentalist Izetbegovic and it could not have been willingly (hence the civil war) and then Ganic is named by Izetbegovic as opposed to Abdic calling the shoots from the start or at least by that point (I mean what the hell does majority of votes mean anyway). Likely Conclusion: Abdic (basically a pro-Yugoslav at the start) is the only legitimate Bosniak representative here really and fundamentalist Izetbegovic (basically a staunch anti-Yugoslav) basically created a putsch and radicalized the situation in Bosnia exponentially that led to war we know of today. Izetbegovic propaganda demonized this man who has still strong support in his region that speaks volumes in its own right. "Lord Owen, British diplomat and co-author of the Vance-Owen and Owen-Stoltenberg peace plans who was favourable to the Serb position, described Abdic as "forthright, confident and different from the Sarajevan Muslims. He was in favor of negotiating and compromising with Croats and Serbs to achieve a settlement, and scathing about those Muslims who wanted to block any such settlement."[10]" If this man was in control of Bosnia there would not have been a war of separation and Serbs would have acquired some autonomy with perhaps Vance-Owen plan. Croatian Serbs would have less radicalized with time and accepted some autonomy that was later offered by Croatia. Hell I don't think anyone would have minded if this man was a president of rump Yugoslavia. Certainly Abdic (pro-Yugoslav liberal) and Izetbegovic (anti-Yugoslav Islamic Fundamentalist who even attracted Taliban-like extremist from abroad to fight for him) have absolutely nothing in common in any shape or form. It is a wonder that country like Yugoslavia could have produced the likes of Izetbegovic. In April 1983, Izetbegović and twelve other Bosniak activists (including Melika Salihbegović, Edhem Bičakčić, Omer Behmen, Mustafa Spahić and Hasan Čengić) were tried before a Sarajevo court for a variety of "offences", principally "hostile activity inspired by Muslim nationalism", "association for purposes of hostile activity" and "hostile propaganda". Specifically, the defendants were accused of intending to create "an ethnically pure Muslim Bosnia-Herzegovina". Izetbegović was further accused of organizing a visit to a Muslim congress in Iran. All of those tried were convicted and Izetbegović was sentenced to fourteen years in prison. The verdict was strongly criticised by Western human rights organisations, including Amnesty International and Helsinki Watch, which pointed out that the case was based on communist propaganda, and the accused were not charged with either using or advocating violence.[6] The following May, the Bosnian Supreme Court conceded the point with an announcement that "some of the actions of the accused did not have the characteristics of criminal acts" and reduced Izetbegović's sentence to twelve years. In 1988, as communist rule faltered, he was pardoned and released after almost five years in prison. His health had suffered serious and lasting damage.[6] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alija_Izetbegovic
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Post by tito on Dec 7, 2008 4:04:01 GMT -5
Abdic never considered himself a Bosniak then what does he consider himself?... the old pre-1991 muslim identity, ie. "Muslim by nationality" ? Yes. abdic and his cronies became croats?.... this is the first time i heard of this. i've never heard of abdic calling himself croat. His daughter is married to a Croat so she declares her self as a Croat. Don’t think that there are many followers of Abdic outside Croatia who declare themselves as Croats.
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Post by bog on Dec 7, 2008 11:13:07 GMT -5
If Fikret Abdic stayed on as leader of the SDA, there would've never been a war. What he did in the war was protect the best interests of the people that believed in and that he represented (Velika Kladusa) instead of some ideology by a fundamentalist Muslim in Sarajevo (Izetbegovic). If there is any non-Serb leader I can hold in high esteem, it is him (eventhough he never did anything for the benefit of my people). He is also proof that this war was never about Serb vs. Muslim. It was about resisting the autocratic and fundamentalist tendencies of the SDA Muslims led by Izetbegovic. Then how come the VRS indiscriminately killed civilians and shelled civilians targets instead of taking out the places where Alija might have been Why were they in government with him? SDS-SDA-HDZ worked with each other before the war against the evil secular reformists and commies... The only people who were non-nationalist and non-fundamentalist were the reformist and social-democrats, and If you do not recall Raso shot at the protersters in Sarajevo who wanted all the nationalists to step down.
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Post by bog on Dec 7, 2008 11:23:58 GMT -5
Does anyone else has doubts that something doesn't look right in this; ----- After his release from prison, he joined the Party of Democratic Action just 24 hours before the 1990 elections were scheduled[6] and ran for the Presidency of Bosnia and Herzegovina. Under the erstwhile constitution, voters elected seven members to the presidency; two Bosniaks, two Serbs, two Croats and one Yugoslav. Abdic and his future rival Alija Izetbegovic ran for the two Bosniak positions, and were both elected. Once the positions were filled, the members of the presidency elected a President of the Presidency who acted as its head. Although Abdic won more popular votes than Izetbegovic, Abdic did not assume office for reasons which remain unclear.[5]
According to NIN, when the Bosnian War broke out, Abdic briefly appeared in Sarajevo hoping to assume presidency after Izetbegovic had been arrested by the Yugoslav People's Army. However, he was preempted as Izetbegovic had already named Ejup Ganic for that position.[5] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fikret_Abdi%C4%87------- It appears that Abdic (the legitimate representative of Bosniaks) was somehow taken out of the political equation by fundamentalist Izetbegovic and it could not have been willingly (hence the civil war) and then Ganic is named by Izetbegovic as opposed to Abdic calling the shoots from the start or at least by that point (I mean what the hell does majority of votes mean anyway). Likely Conclusion: Abdic (basically a pro-Yugoslav at the start) is the only legitimate Bosniak representative here really and fundamentalist Izetbegovic (basically a staunch anti-Yugoslav) basically created a putsch and radicalized the situation in Bosnia exponentially that led to war we know of today. Izetbegovic propaganda demonized this man who has still strong support in his region that speaks volumes in its own right. "Lord Owen, British diplomat and co-author of the Vance-Owen and Owen-Stoltenberg peace plans who was favourable to the Serb position, described Abdic as "forthright, confident and different from the Sarajevan Muslims. He was in favor of negotiating and compromising with Croats and Serbs to achieve a settlement, and scathing about those Muslims who wanted to block any such settlement."[10]" If this man was in control of Bosnia there would not have been a war of separation and Serbs would have acquired some autonomy with perhaps Vance-Owen plan. Croatian Serbs would have less radicalized with time and accepted some autonomy that was later offered by Croatia. Hell I don't think anyone would have minded if this man was a president of rump Yugoslavia. Certainly Abdic (pro-Yugoslav liberal) and Izetbegovic (anti-Yugoslav Islamic Fundamentalist who even attracted Taliban-like extremist from abroad to fight for him) have absolutely nothing in common in any shape or form. It is a wonder that country like Yugoslavia could have produced the likes of Izetbegovic. In April 1983, Izetbegović and twelve other Bosniak activists (including Melika Salihbegović, Edhem Bičakčić, Omer Behmen, Mustafa Spahić and Hasan Čengić) were tried before a Sarajevo court for a variety of "offences", principally "hostile activity inspired by Muslim nationalism", "association for purposes of hostile activity" and "hostile propaganda". Specifically, the defendants were accused of intending to create "an ethnically pure Muslim Bosnia-Herzegovina". Izetbegović was further accused of organizing a visit to a Muslim congress in Iran. All of those tried were convicted and Izetbegović was sentenced to fourteen years in prison. The verdict was strongly criticised by Western human rights organisations, including Amnesty International and Helsinki Watch, which pointed out that the case was based on communist propaganda, and the accused were not charged with either using or advocating violence.[6] The following May, the Bosnian Supreme Court conceded the point with an announcement that "some of the actions of the accused did not have the characteristics of criminal acts" and reduced Izetbegović's sentence to twelve years. In 1988, as communist rule faltered, he was pardoned and released after almost five years in prison. His health had suffered serious and lasting damage.[6] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alija_IzetbegovicWait, so instead of saying something like, if there had been non-nationalists on all sides, we might not have had a war. Or even break up of Yugo. You are saying that if we had Serb nationalists, but at the same time Fikret, then there would be no war? Neither Alija nor Fikret acted in the interest of the Bosniac people, and there is no reason to like any of them. For different reasons but still. But this attempt to turn Abdic into the voice of reason, when keeping in mind the nature of the war. And especially when keeping in mind that all the nationalists movements cooperated against those who wanted to make BiH/Yuga into a social-democracy after the fall of the iron certain, instead of the feudal society we have now, makes this attempt more then pathetic.
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Post by srbobran on Dec 7, 2008 11:34:09 GMT -5
(eventhough he never did anything for the benefit of my people). -------------------------------------
Actually, he helped the Serbian forces in Bosnia numerous times and after that fuck up Milosevic pulled out of Kraijna, Abdic became a huge ally for the Krajina Serbs. He even sent 10,000 men to help defend Krajina towards the end of the war.
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Post by fazlinho on Dec 7, 2008 12:58:13 GMT -5
(eventhough he never did anything for the benefit of my people). ------------------------------------- Actually, he helped the Serbian forces in Bosnia numerous times and after that f**k up Milosevic pulled out of Kraijna, Abdic became a huge ally for the Krajina Serbs. He even sent 10,000 men to help defend Krajina towards the end of the war. srbobran please, don't post true information you are ruining zgembo's and admin's nice dream. How can you possibly do that? It took you that long to figure out this is their logic?
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Post by bog on Dec 7, 2008 16:22:36 GMT -5
^^
Well that is the opinion of most people. And perhaps of most Balkans peoples, that there would be peace if we got our goals, but the rest didn't.
They both basically said, they wanted either Slobo or Raso, but not Alija...
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Post by manijak on Dec 7, 2008 16:25:50 GMT -5
Has anybody ever written about how Alija was president even though Abdic beat him?
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Post by bog on Dec 7, 2008 16:28:47 GMT -5
wikipedia has
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Post by fazlinho on Dec 7, 2008 16:37:40 GMT -5
Has anybody ever written about how Alija was president even though Abdic beat him? they made an agreement.
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Post by manijak on Dec 7, 2008 17:10:59 GMT -5
Has anybody ever written about how Alija was president even though Abdic beat him? they made an agreement. only in the balkans. that seems very very fishy. i mean he democratically won a vote, you would think his voters would be very upset.
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Post by theblackswans on Dec 7, 2008 22:31:56 GMT -5
Abdic was a criminal who stole from the state. He volunteered to give up his seat in the presidency to Izetbegovic. He was a coward and a oppertunist, just like his cetnik masters.
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Post by Skroz on Oct 27, 2012 8:38:41 GMT -5
Fortunately they where liberated at the end Liberated my arse. It's because of this "liberation" that I had to flee.
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