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Post by theblackswans on Sept 5, 2008 6:48:50 GMT -5
if Bosnia gets a king so should we ;D lets invite the Hapsburgs to run Croatia But seriously, monarchy? Only if the king wears a track suit, gold chains, drinks rakija, sits on a porch all day petting his German Sheppard "Divljak" while cleaning his Sig Sauer pistol "Marica"...here i go, talking about myself again It sounds like you are describing Ismet Bajramovic or any other two bit Bosnian gangster! I love the Balkan tracksuit, I have seen the ditch digger tracksuit, the wedding tracksuit, the funeral tracksuit, the construction tracksuit I have never seen the king tracksuit that would have to be the s*it!
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Post by theblackswans on Sept 5, 2008 6:50:19 GMT -5
Bosnia has the most complex, wasteful government on the planet and adding a monarchy will improve it how?
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Post by tito on Sept 5, 2008 11:53:47 GMT -5
Bosnia has the most complex, wasteful government on the planet and adding a monarchy will improve it how? It would make the prime minister much stronger and free the country from the 3 member presidency. Also the king(Tvrtko III of Bosnia) would stand above the political issues and serve as a uniting factor.
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MiG
Amicus
Republika
Posts: 4,793
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Post by MiG on Sept 5, 2008 12:01:42 GMT -5
^ Or a dividing factor. Think of all 3 sides trying to claim him as "their own". Shit would hit the fan pretty fast.
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Post by tito on Sept 5, 2008 12:09:19 GMT -5
^ Or a dividing factor. Think of all 3 sides trying to claim him as "their own". s**t would hit the fan pretty fast. You argument makes no sense at all.
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MiG
Amicus
Republika
Posts: 4,793
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Post by MiG on Sept 5, 2008 12:23:46 GMT -5
^ How so? A Constitutional Monarchy (Monarchies in General, no matter what form), always give way to inner conflict and resentment between opposing parties (Look at the English Civil War). In this case, the Croats can claim that the Kotormanic Dynasty is Croatian. Then on the other hand, the Serbs can claim that the Kotormanic Dynasty is Serbian. Meanwhile Bosniaks will claim that it is their own, solely their own, and nobody else has claim to it. So there goes some more divisional factors. You think this makes no sense? :-\
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Post by tito on Sept 5, 2008 12:32:44 GMT -5
Because it make no sense to claim that there would be conflict between people because they are loyal to the same king. If anything it unites the nation. A Constitutional Monarchy (Monarchies in General, no matter what form), always give way to inner conflict BS. In this case, the Croats can claim that the Kotormanic Dynasty is Croatian. Then on the other hand, the Serbs can claim that the Kotormanic Dynasty is Serbian. Meanwhile Bosniaks will claim that it is their own, solely their own, and nobody else has claim to it. It doesn’t matter what anyone else other then the king and the constitution claims.
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Zvone
Amicus
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Posts: 525
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Post by Zvone on Sept 5, 2008 13:37:58 GMT -5
Wow, what a debate. Mig puts in a ten sentence paragraph and tito just answers BS.
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Post by tito on Sept 5, 2008 14:05:37 GMT -5
Wow, what a debate. Mig puts in a ten sentence paragraph and tito just answers BS. Yeah because it was a idiotic claim, here is the list of constitutional monarchies in Europe: Only an idiot would claim that these countries are more problematic/unstable then the republics of Europe.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Sept 5, 2008 14:31:19 GMT -5
Bosnia has the most complex, wasteful government on the planet and adding a monarchy will improve it how? It would make the prime minister much stronger and free the country from the 3 member presidency. Also the king(Tvrtko III of Bosnia) would stand above the political issues and serve as a uniting factor. Well, if this is true and political expediency is mostly desired, then wouldn't a dictatorship or an absolute monarchy be the ideal? Wouldn't any kind of constitutional anything merely be word games and ritualistic when compared to actually getting stuff done? I don't see why you couldn't just support a dictator.
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Post by tito on Sept 5, 2008 14:47:15 GMT -5
Well, if this is true and political expediency is mostly desired, then wouldn't a dictatorship or an absolute monarchy be the ideal? Jbga, ti ko da si sa Marsa pao: Wouldn't any kind of constitutional anything merely be word games and ritualistic when compared to actually getting stuff done? As I said before: Bosnia would be free from the 3 member presidency and that alone is a step in the right direction. I don't see why you couldn't just support a dictator. Because the future of Bosnia is in EU.
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Zvone
Amicus
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Posts: 525
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Post by Zvone on Sept 5, 2008 14:51:37 GMT -5
What works for one country does not mean it would work for another. BiHs main problem is inter-ethnic hate coupled with ultra-nationalism. Coronating someone will not absolve any problems, but create new ones.
BTW, none of those countries are pure constitutional monarchies they are actually more defined as parliamentary democracies. However, the royal family serves as a diplomatic link to other countries but doesn't hold any real power. And Swaziland is in Africa as a 2nd world country.
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Post by tito on Sept 5, 2008 14:55:22 GMT -5
What works for one country does not mean it would work for another. That’s not the issue, you defended Migs stupid assumption that constitutional monarchies are somehow a more problematic then republics. Coronating someone will not absolve any problems Learn to read: It would make the prime minister much stronger and free the country from the 3 member presidency. As I said before: Bosnia would be free from the 3 member presidency and that alone is a step in the right direction.
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Zvone
Amicus
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
Posts: 525
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Post by Zvone on Sept 5, 2008 15:01:51 GMT -5
So you want a parliamentary democarcy with a constitutional monarchy? Learn how to write your brain farts down. No one is agreeing with you, so let's stop the bickering and admit your nuts.
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Post by tito on Sept 5, 2008 15:09:16 GMT -5
No one is agreeing with you, so let's stop the bickering and admit your nuts. Is that why 80% voted in favor of monarchy?
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Sept 5, 2008 15:09:46 GMT -5
Well, if this is true and political expediency is mostly desired, then wouldn't a dictatorship or an absolute monarchy be the ideal? Jbga, ti ko da si sa Marsa pao: As I said before: Bosnia would be free from the 3 member presidency and that alone is a step in the right direction. I don't see why you couldn't just support a dictator. Because the future of Bosnia is in EU. You inferred that political expediency is the ideal. I was merely taking that proposition to its logical conclusions. If a single executive ruler is desirable over many of them, then why is it so far fetched to conclude that a single ruler is the logical consequence in that chain of reasoning. I don't see how you can oppose a dictatorship if political and executive expediency is the ideal. Or it means your argument isn't valid on from its premise and is just rambling madness based on subjective aesthetics and no actual truth. If Bosnia joins the EU, then it enters a larger arena of political bureaucracy far greater than the one it experiences today simply because of the size of the EU and the larger political arena. Surely this is something undesirable to you.
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Post by tito on Sept 5, 2008 15:11:40 GMT -5
I don't see how you can oppose a dictatorship Because the future of Bosnia is in EU. Surely this is something undesirable to you. Not at all.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Sept 5, 2008 15:12:03 GMT -5
No one is agreeing with you, so let's stop the bickering and admit your nuts. Is that why 80% voted in favor of monarchy? Which shows that democracy is a sham in Bosnia and 80% of the people are oppressed. With a single ruler calling all the shots, he comprises .0000001% of the Bosnian population by himself and this would leave the other 99.99999% of people in Bosnia at the mercy of his subjective whims.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Sept 5, 2008 15:15:35 GMT -5
I don't see how you can oppose a dictatorship Because the future of Bosnia is in EU. Surely this is something undesirable to you. Not at all. Then this is a contradiction. On the one hand you're saying you oppose political bureaucracy like that present in Bosnia with multiple leaders, then you're saying you desire an increased political bureaucracy in the EU with multiple leaders. Are you for or against political bureaucracies?
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Post by tito on Sept 5, 2008 15:16:15 GMT -5
Which shows that democracy is a sham in Bosnia :oKolumbus otkrio Ameriku ;D Are you for or against political bureaucracies? I’m for Bosnia and against the anti-Bosnian system known as Dayton.
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