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Post by theblackswans on Jul 4, 2008 19:27:20 GMT -5
What happened and what was committed by both sides is nothing to glorify, absolutely nothing to glorify. 1,000 dead Serb civilians, and then in retaliation to this, 8,000 dead Bosniaks. Maybe in the next war there will be an even greater number of deaths, simply because the next generation will carry on the hatred of the past generation. BTW, Blackswans, you cannot label and ENTIRE people for the actions of a few. I don't think all Serbs are cetniks, just the apologists and there admirers. What happened to Serb civillians around Srebrenica sucks and some were innocent. Most were soldiers and you can't compare what happened to the Serbs around Srebrenica and the Bosniaks period. Even the linking of the two in the same conversation is sick and is a salve used by criminals and apologists to justify the crimes. I have been in Srebrenica and visitied the Serbian cemeteries that are mentioned and again most were men who served in the VRS or as a home gaurd, period end of story. A few hundred dead Serb civillians in 4 years of fighting around Srebrenica has nothing in common with the genocide in Srebrenica except a poor excuse for committing genocide.
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Post by theblackswans on Jul 4, 2008 19:30:26 GMT -5
SARAJEVO, Bosnia (July 4,2008) - Bosnian officials welcomed yesterday a decision by the Appeals Chamber of the UN War Crimes Tribunal to overturn the war crimes conviction of the former commander of the Bosnian Army units in the eastern Bosnian town of Srebrenica Naser Oric and acquitted him of all war crimes charges including the killings of six genocidal Serbian fascist aggressor's soldiers captured and held by the Bosnian Army in 1992 and 1993 in Srebrenica.
The Appeals Chamber of the UN's International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY) determined there was too little evidence to justify Oric's initial conviction.
"The evidence that Naser Oric is innocent have always existed and I think it is a great shame that he spent almost four years in jail, said yesterday the President of the Mothers of Srebrenica Association, Munira Subasic.
"When the indictment was raised by ICTY against Naser Oric, I, as a victim of genocide, searching after members of my family murdered in Srebrenica, felt then that the court had become unjust", Subašiæ added.
She considers that when Naser Oric was taken to the Hague Tribunal, the politics entered that Court.
"I can't believe that after the genocide, the massacre of our children, the judges and prosecutors had nothing else to do but to condemn one man who tried to defend Bosnia as best as he knew", Subasic points out.
She repeated that the war criminals should be prosecuted in the ICTY and that they should be sentenced to the life imprisonment.
"That is the only way in which the Hague Tribunal could return a small piece of justice, and the victims of genocide to feel that someone did something for them", Subasic said.
Commenting on the decision, Srebrenica Mayor Abdurahman Malkic said it proved that the Bosnian Army was never involved in war crimes in the Srebrenica area.
Associations of demobilized soldiers from the Bosnian Army also welcomed the chamber's decision and called for the urgent arrest of all Serbian war criminals still at large.
In 1995, the genocidal Serbian fascist aggressor's forces stormed a U.N.-declared "safe haven" in the eastern Bosnian town of Srebrenica and mass murdered some 10,000 Bosnian civilians,which was Europe's worst civilian massacre since World War II.
Two of the masterminds of the Serbian genocide against the Bosnian people,committed during the 1992-1995 Serbian aggression against Bosnia,Serbian war criminals Radovan Karadzic and Ratko Mladic are still hiding from justice.They remain at large almost 13 years since being charged with genocide by the Hague-based International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY).
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MiG
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Post by MiG on Jul 4, 2008 21:46:11 GMT -5
What happened and what was committed by both sides is nothing to glorify, absolutely nothing to glorify. 1,000 dead Serb civilians, and then in retaliation to this, 8,000 dead Bosniaks. Maybe in the next war there will be an even greater number of deaths, simply because the next generation will carry on the hatred of the past generation. BTW, Blackswans, you cannot label and ENTIRE people for the actions of a few. I don't think all Serbs are cetniks, just the apologists and there admirers. What happened to Serb civillians around Srebrenica sucks and some were innocent. Most were soldiers and you can't compare what happened to the Serbs around Srebrenica and the Bosniaks period. Even the linking of the two in the same conversation is sick and is a salve used by criminals and apologists to justify the crimes. I have been in Srebrenica and visitied the Serbian cemeteries that are mentioned and again most were men who served in the VRS or as a home gaurd, period end of story. A few hundred dead Serb civillians in 4 years of fighting around Srebrenica has nothing in common with the genocide in Srebrenica except a poor excuse for committing genocide. Ok. Well, the war displaced more Serbs than any other ethnicity. But in turn the Serbs committed more bloody acts against others. This is a circle. Don't you see, unless we apologise to eachother, we will have nothing to live for at the end of the day. I don't wish to see the people of Former Yugoslavia driven by hatred and fear, but rather by brotherhood and unity, under one flag. A dream, yes, it may be so, many people will die for it and against it to have their own way, but its an idea, and an idea cannot be killed. Blackswans, have you ever been in the Former SFRJ under Tito, when he was still alive?
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Post by markosijekira on Jul 5, 2008 0:44:58 GMT -5
"I don't wish to see the people of Former Yugoslavia driven by hatred and fear, but rather by brotherhood and unity, under one flag. "
Our day will come again druze!!!! It must!
Here is a example, a bosniak that i know, lost one of his sons in Sarajevo to serb fire, yet is today close friends with serbs who live in his area. See? There is hope yet for our people
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Post by theblackswans on Jul 5, 2008 11:04:02 GMT -5
I was never in Yugoslavia while Tito was alive, I was in Yugoslavia before the war and during and after but only in the 1990's when tensions were rising. I had some friends who were there as well, one guy I know was a skating coach who was there for the Olympics in 1984.
Of course the Serbs were the most displaced people there vision of greater Serbia was a failure and the results were the people had to leave after there were such henious crimes committed in their names. Also the goal of the Serb authorities were seperation so you had Serbs leaving Sarajevo before the war and after the war as well as Croatia etc.
It is no suprise that they were the most displaced, I also know that all Serbs are not and were not supporters of Milosevic and Karadzic. Those who did bear the brunt for what happened to the Serbs in the 1990's.
Of course the wars in Yugoslavia could have been avoided if it wasn't for Milosevic and his supporters. Tudjman and Izetbegovic and Kucan and bear some level of responsibility for there nationalist regimes although most were a response to what was happening in Belgrade.
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Post by MiG on Jul 5, 2008 14:18:17 GMT -5
^ I say the people are to blame. For they are the ones that followed blindly like sheep. "I don't wish to see the people of Former Yugoslavia driven by hatred and fear, but rather by brotherhood and unity, under one flag. " Our day will come again druze!!!! It must! Here is a example, a bosniak that i know, lost one of his sons in Sarajevo to serb fire, yet is today close friends with serbs who live in his area. See? There is hope yet for our people I hope so, because divided we will fall, as we are already doing so, bit by bit.
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Post by Novus Dis on Jul 5, 2008 15:17:08 GMT -5
I don't think all Serbs are cetniks, just the apologists and there admirers. I'm not an apologist. I have never tried to justify the murder of civilians. You on the other hand have by claiming that Serb civilian victims in/around Srebrenica were part of the "5th column" (ironically a term coined up by Franco Francisco to justify murdering civilians during the Spanish Civil War.) Check out these soldiers: Srebrenica/Zvornik region: The body of a Bosnian Serb boy murdered by Nasir Oric's forces in the Srebrenica pocket in eastern Bosnia.The bodies of Ranko Sekulovic, left, and his wife, Radenka, 30, executed and mutilated by Bosnian Muslim Territorial Defense forces on September 13, 1992 in Foca. Bosnian Muslim troops murdered the entire Sekulovic family.Bottom, the mutilated body of 13 year old Bosnian Serb Darko Koroman. Bosnian Muslim troops executed him and cut off his right ear and stabbed him through the neck. The bodies of executed Bosnian Serb civilians Pero Grcic and Stojka Koroman lie beside his. The body of Bosnian Serb civilian Kostadinka Grcic, executed by Bosnian Muslim forces by stabbing her in the chest. The decapitated head of Bosnian Serb farmer Pero Makic, who was executed by Bosnian Muslim/Croat forces in the northeastern Bosnian city of Brcko on June 22, 1992. His head was placed on a pitch-fork and a cigarette was placed in his mouth. One of the forks of the pitch-fork was stabbed in his eye. This is a photo that was censored and suppressed in the West and the US. Etc.Serb victims: 3,500 men, women and children. Muslim victims: 8,000 men and boys. Stop being an apologist for Oric and his marauders. Lying about the number of Serb victims is really low even for someone like you. But in turn the Serbs committed more bloody acts against others. No, they didn't. Do you want me to post the pictures of what Croats/Muslims did in Vukovar/Srebrenica (among other places) to Serb civilians? Cuz I have plenty. Oh and I found it funny when I showed you those pictures in the Vukovar thread and you called me a monster for being able to even look at those pictures while you call those who did the crimes "heroes" and "defenders" and whatnot. Seriously, stop pretending to be a "liberal" or whatever you make yourself out to be because it makes you look like a hypocrite.
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Post by kapetan on Jul 5, 2008 15:27:44 GMT -5
I don't think all Serbs are cetniks, just the apologists and there admirers. I'm not an apologist. I have never tried to justify the murder of civilians. You on the other hand have by claiming that Serb civilian victims in/around Srebrenica were part of the "5th column" (ironically a term coined up by Franco Francisco to justify murdering civilians during the Spanish Civil War.) Check out these soldiers: Srebrenica/Zvornik region: The body of a Bosnian Serb boy murdered by Nasir Oric's forces in the Srebrenica pocket in eastern Bosnia.The bodies of Ranko Sekulovic, left, and his wife, Radenka, 30, executed and mutilated by Bosnian Muslim Territorial Defense forces on September 13, 1992 in Foca. Bosnian Muslim troops murdered the entire Sekulovic family.Bottom, the mutilated body of 13 year old Bosnian Serb Darko Koroman. Bosnian Muslim troops executed him and cut off his right ear and stabbed him through the neck. The bodies of executed Bosnian Serb civilians Pero Grcic and Stojka Koroman lie beside his. The body of Bosnian Serb civilian Kostadinka Grcic, executed by Bosnian Muslim forces by stabbing her in the chest. The decapitated head of Bosnian Serb farmer Pero Makic, who was executed by Bosnian Muslim/Croat forces in the northeastern Bosnian city of Brcko on June 22, 1992. His head was placed on a pitch-fork and a cigarette was placed in his mouth. One of the forks of the pitch-fork was stabbed in his eye. This is a photo that was censored and suppressed in the West and the US. Etc.Serb victims: 3,500 men, women and children. Muslim victims: 8,000 men and boys. Stop being an apologist for Oric and his marauders. Lying about the number of Serb victims is really low even for someone like you. But in turn the Serbs committed more bloody acts against others. No, they didn't. Do you want me to post the pictures of what Croats/Muslims did in Vukovar/Srebrenica (among other places) to Serb civilians? Cuz I have plenty. Oh and I found it funny when I showed you those pictures in the Vukovar thread and you called me a monster for being able to even look at those pictures while you call those who did the crimes "heroes" and "defenders" and whatnot. Seriously, stop pretending to be a "liberal" or whatever you make yourself out to be because it makes you look like a hypocrite. I hope you realize 3,000-4,000 is one of those hugely infalted numbers floating around that never had any credibility. The Republika Srpska's Commission for War Crimes gave the number of Serb victims in the municipalities of Bratunac, Srebrenica and Skelani as 995; 520 in Bratunac and 475 in Srebrenica.
The Chronicle of Our Graves by Milivoje Ivanisevic, president of the Belgrade Center for Investigating Crimes Committed against the Serbs, estimates the number of people killed at around 1,200.
For the Honorable Cross and Golden Freedom, a book published by the RS Ministry of Interior, referred to 641 Serb victims in the Bratunac-Srebrenica-Skelani region.
The most up-to-date analysis of Serb casualties in the region comes from the Sarajevo-based Research and Documentation Center, a non-partisan institution with a multiethnic staff, whose data have been collected, processed, checked, compared and evaluated by international team of experts. The RDC's extensive review of casualty data found that Serb casualties in the Bratunac municipality amounted to 119 civilians and 424 soldiers. It also established that although the 383 Serb victims buried in the Bratunac military cemetery are presented as casualties of ARBiH units from Srebrenica, 139 (more than one third of the total) had fought and died elsewhere in Bosnia and Herzegovina.
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Post by Novus Dis on Jul 5, 2008 15:33:26 GMT -5
I hope you realize 3,000-4,000 is one of those hugely infalted numbers floating around that never had any credibility. Lets not get into a numbers war because you have no proof that anything close to 8,000 Muslims died in Srebrenica.
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Post by kapetan on Jul 5, 2008 15:55:39 GMT -5
I hope you realize 3,000-4,000 is one of those hugely infalted numbers floating around that never had any credibility. Lets not get into a numbers war because you have no proof that anything close to 8,000 Muslims died in Srebrenica. umm....i just gave you proof from your OWN sources that it wasnt 4,000. But I guess some people won't accept ANYTHING. THey just stick to something no matter what. I guess it's easier for you that way? and if you want proof from YOUR OWN sources about 8,000 here you go. In 2004, the international community's High Representative Paddy Ashdown had the Government of Republika Srpska form a committee to investigate the events. The committee released a report in October 2004 with 8,731 confirmed names of missing and dead persons from Srebrenica: 7,793 between 10 July and 19 July 1995 and further 938 people afterwards.
On November 10, 2004, the government of Republika Srpska issued an official apology. The statement came after a government review of the Srebrenica committee's report. "The report makes it clear that enormous crimes were committed in the area of Srebrenica in July 1995. The Bosnian Serb Government shares the pain of the families of the Srebrenica victims, is truly sorry and apologizes for the tragedy." the Bosnian Serb government said.
By 2006, 42 mass graves have been uncovered around Srebrenica and the specialists believe there are 22 more mass graves. The victims identified number 2,070 while body parts in more than 7,000 bags still await identification. On August 11, 2006 over 1,000 body parts were exhumed from one of Srebrenica mass graves located in Kamenica. But seriosly is ANY proof enough for people like you? I meanw hat's it gonna take for you to step back from your denial for a second and maybe think it actualy did happen and not everything is some conspiracy against Serbs.
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Post by Novus Dis on Jul 5, 2008 16:03:27 GMT -5
This isn't so much a conspiracy against Serbs as it is lazy propaganda. You know what they say "a lie repeated often enough..." The victims identified number 2,070 while body parts in more than 7,000 bags still await identification. How many of those 7,000 bags (which could mean there is anywhere between 3,000 to 6,000 corpses spread within those bags) are Serbs and how many are Muslims?
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Post by kapetan on Jul 5, 2008 16:15:41 GMT -5
A logical man might use the numbers from my first post about Serb casualties to conclude that.
And once again.
The committee released a report in October 2004 with 8,731 confirmed names of missing and dead persons from Srebrenica: 7,793 between 10 July and 19 July 1995 and further 938 people afterwards.
lolm just give it a rest. Bad shit happend.
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Post by vinjak on Jul 5, 2008 18:23:07 GMT -5
What happened to Serb civillians around Srebrenica sucks and some were innocent.
Oh so now you change your tune from your earlier BS statement
All that talk of thousands of Serbs killed around Srebrenica it BS! Most killed were soldiers or armed civillian defense.
You Piece of Sh%t spitting on the murdered Civilians only because they are Serb.
It's always you young expatriates that have to try to prove your manhood or nationhood when you really have no connection at all. Your just a fronting a*s mark who likes to pretend you are a patriot on the web or pretend you are a some character on a video game. Your such a bi*tch... I bet you pee sitting down and ride on the back of a motorcycle that your man drives.
LOL See this is your problem Wannabe Balija you have no freakin idea what your talking about... what is sad is that your trying hard to be conected to the Balkans when your not. Keep your nose where it belongs in America because it is F%$ks like you that contributed to our combined tragedy and then you bastards laugh and play the accuser and judge.
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Post by MiG on Jul 5, 2008 18:31:05 GMT -5
Guys, stop with the personal insults.
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Post by vinjak on Jul 5, 2008 18:44:51 GMT -5
Mig I appolagise to you and other Mods here,
But this F&^k has been spitting on the Serb innocents since he freakin arrived on this forum. Time and time again I read the disgusting disrespect from this Yank and enough is enough.
Everytime someone questions his responses he goes ballistic with Cetnik this Cetnik that and lets fly with insults.
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Post by theblackswans on Jul 5, 2008 18:45:03 GMT -5
What happened to Serb civillians around Srebrenica sucks and some were innocent.Oh so now you change your tune from your earlier BS statement All that talk of thousands of Serbs killed around Srebrenica it BS! Most killed were soldiers or armed civillian defense.You Piece of Sh%t spitting on the murdered Civilians only because they are Serb. It's always you young expatriates that have to try to prove your manhood or nationhood when you really have no connection at all. Your just a fronting a*s mark who likes to pretend you are a patriot on the web or pretend you are a some character on a video game. Your such a bi*tch... I bet you pee sitting down and ride on the back of a motorcycle that your man drives. LOL See this is your problem Wannabe Balija you have no freakin idea what your talking about... what is sad is that your trying hard to be conected to the Balkans when your not. Keep your nose where it belongs in America because it is F%$ks like you that contributed to our combined tragedy and then you bastards laugh and play the accuser and judge. I never changed my tune. It is you expatriates who fan the flame by supporting nationalists groups in the Balkans when you don't have to deal with the aftermath or consequences. It is easy to talk out the side of your mouth because you don't have anything to lose. People in Bosnia get along much better than portrayed by you country idiots. You facists ran away to America after WW2 cetniks, ustasa because you didn't want to face the consequences of your actions. Same BS after this last war and once again you stand around running your mouth and writing a check you can't or won't cash. So go prove your manhood by slapping a retard or making out with your sister like you do so well and keep off my nutz... If you weren't a coward you would still be there back home. Same with all your cetnik brethren. That is why serbs were the most displaced population during the balkans war because you and your people are the biggest cowards! Point fact checkmate. I know your a simpleton and you think I mean all Serbs but no, just cowards like you.
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Post by vinjak on Jul 5, 2008 18:49:10 GMT -5
You facists ran away to America after WW2 cetniks,
Again you blab without knowing what your talking about you Mutt.
How dare you... My grandfather was an Officer in the Cetniks and he did not run but was arrested and interogated and spent 3 years in the communist jail while being questioned, he was accquited and let out so dont freakin come here blabbering about what you clearly know nothing about.
His unit led a raid that freed captive Partizans even though they where enemys in idiology. A lot happens on the ground which you have no idea about so As I said to you before keep your nose out of it as you learned from propaganda.
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Post by kapetan on Jul 5, 2008 18:59:19 GMT -5
You facists ran away to America after WW2 cetniks,Again you blab without knowing what your talking about you Mutt. How dare you... My grandfather was an Officer in the Cetniks and he did not run but was arrested and interogated and spent 3 years in the communist jail while being questioned, he was accquited and let out so dont freakin come here blabbering about what you clearly know nothing about. His unit led a raid that freed captive Partizans even though they where enemys in idiology. A lot happens on the ground which you have no idea about so As I said to you before keep your nose out of it as you learned from propaganda. Why is he a fake "balija"? I'm sinceraly just asking cuz I'm confused why he's called blackswans if he's not even a Bosnian.
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Post by vinjak on Jul 5, 2008 19:02:38 GMT -5
He is an Amerikan redneck with no connections to BiH whatsoever. And took a name "Blackswans" which again he has no connection too. Read a few articles and went yeah the Blackswans are cool thats my new Nik
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Post by kapetan on Jul 5, 2008 19:07:42 GMT -5
He is an Amerikan redneck with no connections to BiH whatsoever. And took a name "Blackswans" which again he has no connection too. Read a few articles and went yeah the Blackswans are cool thats my new Nik Balkan is the new Black apperantly
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