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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Jul 6, 2008 3:43:13 GMT -5
Why cant ppl that are born and raised in BIH, say there Bosnian. THink about it, for all of those who oppose a Multi ethnic Republic of BIH. Why do you chose to live in a country which you do not love and dont care for. If i was a Croat (no offence to croats) and i hated BiH, Fuk id move soon as possible and i would change to be a Croatian citizen. IF you dont love BIH and you seek no peace there then f**k your self get out find some where else to live, Dont ruin other peoples pride and love for there country. this little of topic but Why are the ppl in BIH fighting one another when they should be fighting against the government. Its full of retards who are nationalist and are looking to make people hate one another while they make money. Common People of BIH wake up Join the rest of world, make a f**king change. Let the new generation be the best generation there is to be for BIH I'm a nationalist but I don't hate Bosniaks. I'm more than happy to be a friend with a Bosniak. In fact I see many similarities between Serbs, Croatians & Bosniaks. There's more we have in common with eachother than not. We do share the same roots afterall and all speak a slav language. I'm more likely to find common understanding with a Bosniak then say a German, American or whoever else. Yet at the same time I will always be more comfortable around Russians/Ukrainians/Romanians/Greeks... ie slavs & people of the same faith. If anything this multi-ethnic idea was better off in the Yugoslavia format.
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Jul 6, 2008 3:45:46 GMT -5
The exclusively Bosniak (eg Safet-beg) claim that the Orthodox & Catholic inhabitants always thought of themselves as either Bosnians (ethnically) or Bosniaks is completely delusional. Bosnian Serbs to a degree will refer to themselves as Bosnians, but this is predominantly a geographic reference. I'll admit it can also be a reference to mentality, but not ethnicity or race & in no way associated with the Muslims & Croats of Bosnia. Bosniaks (Muslims) can revise & philosophize all they want about Illyria & Bogomills itd, but apart from the fact it's mostly BS, at the end of the day the Serbian & Croatian ethnic identities existed in Bosnia before even Catholicism & Orthodoxy. The Serbian & Croatian identities are even pre-Christian. The current 'Bosniak' identity came after this. In fact it came only with Islam. Before this Bosniaks were Serbian or Croatian or Christian. Maybe before this only they were a ‘little bit’ Illyrian/Bogomil/Roman etc though of course the same can be said for Croats & Serbs anywhere. Wrong. The words Bosniak/Bosnjanin came before Islam and Turks. Read a little better. The earliest Bosnian "name" was the historical term "Bošnjanin" (Latin: Bosniensis), which signified any inhabitant of the medieval Bosnian kingdom.That^ is before Ottoman rule. When the Ottomans came the word morphed from Bosnjanin to Bosnjak. Small difference really, and no known reason for the change. Look here's something people who deny a Bosnia identity can't seem to understand. Even if we throw out the idea of Bosnian ethnicity, (which I'm only doing to humor your argument), citizens of Bosnia, and people who have had roots there for hundreds of years, are Bosnian if by nothing else, then by regional culture and customs and citizenry. This is their country and always has been, regardless of their religion. Because as we all know these 3 religious groups rarely had problems on the scale we've had in the last 100 years after Austro-HUngarian rule. Husein-kapetan led Muslims and Christians both to fight the Turks. He in his own words confirmed Bosnia is for Bosnians of any religion like it's always been. He said to the Turks himself "There was Bosniaks before you, and there will be Bosniaks after you". What makes a Serbian? Being from Serbia and having Serbian culture and heretige from that region. The same thing makes a Bosnian, why do people deny this? Is anyone honestly going to tell me that Bosnia is a clone of Serbia? That it doesn't have it's own distinct culture and feel, even if only a little different. It's no less different then Croatia is from Serbia. If anything it's MORE different thanks to the Islamic element. It's a different region therefore it obviosly has different influences and different history, even though the two are often tied. Honestly man, you tell me, what sense does it make for these people to all live in Bosnia for lets say a 1000 years, and to never feel like part of that country or region? Does that make sense to you? No. Because that "dispora" attitide is RECENT, weather you like it or not. And nobody but Serbs will deny this. And lastly, what's wrong with a "regional" identity? Wtf that's how differences in culture are created to begin with. If everyone lived in the exact same spot from the start, we'd all be the same. It's the different enviorment that makes the people and culture. The Bosnian Church is one perfect example of that. Something unique to Bosnia, and part of the reason why it was easy for us to convert. We didn't have strong firm roots in any religion. What you're saying just doesn't make sense and has never went on anywhere in the world. For a group of people to live together for a thousand years, have their own state, their own kings, own unique names (later) and dialect and customs and yet never identify as a "nation" or people. There was a time before Serbs were called Serbs too, whatever their original origin may be that's irrelvant. At one point hey BECAME known as Serbs, especialy after taking orhtodoxy it was cemented. That's how new cultures are created, moving and mixing. What's wrong with that? So knowing this how exactly does it make a Bosnian identity any less valid? Lets face it. Orhtodox people in Bosnia call themselves Serbs because the religion is called "Serbian Orthodox" and that's really the only difference between them and "Bosnian Muslims". Unless of course Those Serbs KNOW their family recently came from Serbia and isn't native to Bosnia. Why was Bosnia "conuered" by Croatians or Serbians? Why did they keep losing it's grip on it? If the people were Serbs why would they have a problem being with Serbia? Lol obviosly they had a problem with that huh. I for one don't give a f**k about religions, I only care about my land and country and people, whiever God they may worship if any. Bosnia is my religion You call it BS but everyone besides Serbs and some Croats agrees on this. But as usual it's serbs against the world lol. In 1189 Ban Kulin issued the first written Bosnian document written in Bosnian Cyrillic, where he described Bosnia's statehood and referred to its people as Bosnians (Bošnjani). try deny that. plz how do you explain that? If you think everyone except for Serbs & some Croats agree with that then you are completely wrong. Croats & particularly Bosniaks are always trying to revise history, but Serbs will always have the satisfaction of knowing that the Serbian interpretation of history is basically the same as what you will read in any given text book. You have some points there, but at the end of the day it’s so convoluted and contradictory. That’s why you have to write a whole page - to obscure certain inescapable realities. The greatest inescapable reality of all being the fact that present day ‘Bosniaks’ would have been primarily Serbs/Croatians/Orthodox/Catholic-Christian prior to adopting Islam. Of course this must be the most bitter of pills to swallow for a Muslim… so the motivation to convolute & create a different history is completely obvious. It’s perhaps the greatest imaginable motivation to convolute history. The only people who call themselves Bosniaks are the Muslims of Bosnia - period. You will never convince me or any other Serb that he is a Bosniak by ethnicity. You can go ahead & be a Bosniaks. Serbs refer to you as Bosniaks. We are not denying you your current identity. We just know that it formed as a result of Islam.
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Post by osmano on Jul 6, 2008 4:09:53 GMT -5
I'm almost of the opinion this problem can't be solved by anything less then another conflict, which in my opinion is inevetable. From a personal point of view, I've TRIED reaching out but got pushed back hard, several times. So what else can be said? Don’t worry about it, Bosnia has time on it’s side, no new military conflict is needed since the traitor population is shrinking every day and Bosnia is becoming stronger and stronger. In the last few years we have gained control over Jajce, Novi Travnik and the Brcko District of Bosnia and Hercegovina(which separates Banja Luka and some 80% of Bosnias orthodox population from Beo Pashaluk), not to mention the fact that we have a Golden Lily as the croat president and some 60% of the parliament on Bosnia’s side. All we need now is democracy and that is what EU is for.
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Post by Sir Oliver on Jul 6, 2008 9:49:22 GMT -5
Arsenije makes some good points but I do have to point out that the gap between universal understanding in Balkan is harde to bridge due to ethnic nationalism that usually explodes the worst in places like BiH.
Its been my experience with some Bosniaks that they do not think it is important if they were Croats/Serbs/etc hundreds of years ago. Its a well known fact that the current day Italians are nothing more than a mixture of Romans and just about anyone else in the world. So many slaves from different areas passed through Rome during its reign, its impossible to find a true 'Italian' nowdays. The same can be said about current day Bosnians that are formed by Bosniacs, Serbs, Croats and other mixtures.
Lets not also forget that the Roman generals were encouraged to retire and settle in Illyria so what does that tell us? Serbian and Croatian tribes may have settled in present day Balkan but they sure as hell didn't settle at an empty place. This is one arrogant thing I am ashamed my people carry. Considering the fact that when Serb and Croat tribes settled, there were already Illyrians, Romans and God knows what other people living there. Now those people were assimilated into being Serbs and Croats by force for sure, the same way Ottomans persued their interests in Balkans. I fail to see an issue of the Bosnian Nation existing in BiH. I sure as hell do not agree all Bosnians are Bosniaks either, but Bosnians-Hercegovians, in that sense do exist and they are no different than any other nation in the world that has seen an influx of different people, conversions, political mishaps and everything in between.
One thing politicians in BiH do not realize is that the country is not just for Bosniaks, Croats and Serbs, someone has to think about the immigrants and also those mixed marriage kids who do not pick a side. It is wrong for the politicians in BiH to have to force people to choose one side or the other. All that does is creates problems within a family. Being Bosnian should be considered as being neutral.
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Post by kapetan on Jul 6, 2008 13:45:24 GMT -5
Wrong. The words Bosniak/Bosnjanin came before Islam and Turks. Read a little better. The earliest Bosnian "name" was the historical term "Bošnjanin" (Latin: Bosniensis), which signified any inhabitant of the medieval Bosnian kingdom.That^ is before Ottoman rule. When the Ottomans came the word morphed from Bosnjanin to Bosnjak. Small difference really, and no known reason for the change. Look here's something people who deny a Bosnia identity can't seem to understand. Even if we throw out the idea of Bosnian ethnicity, (which I'm only doing to humor your argument), citizens of Bosnia, and people who have had roots there for hundreds of years, are Bosnian if by nothing else, then by regional culture and customs and citizenry. This is their country and always has been, regardless of their religion. Because as we all know these 3 religious groups rarely had problems on the scale we've had in the last 100 years after Austro-HUngarian rule. Husein-kapetan led Muslims and Christians both to fight the Turks. He in his own words confirmed Bosnia is for Bosnians of any religion like it's always been. He said to the Turks himself "There was Bosniaks before you, and there will be Bosniaks after you". What makes a Serbian? Being from Serbia and having Serbian culture and heretige from that region. The same thing makes a Bosnian, why do people deny this? Is anyone honestly going to tell me that Bosnia is a clone of Serbia? That it doesn't have it's own distinct culture and feel, even if only a little different. It's no less different then Croatia is from Serbia. If anything it's MORE different thanks to the Islamic element. It's a different region therefore it obviosly has different influences and different history, even though the two are often tied. Honestly man, you tell me, what sense does it make for these people to all live in Bosnia for lets say a 1000 years, and to never feel like part of that country or region? Does that make sense to you? No. Because that "dispora" attitide is RECENT, weather you like it or not. And nobody but Serbs will deny this. And lastly, what's wrong with a "regional" identity? Wtf that's how differences in culture are created to begin with. If everyone lived in the exact same spot from the start, we'd all be the same. It's the different enviorment that makes the people and culture. The Bosnian Church is one perfect example of that. Something unique to Bosnia, and part of the reason why it was easy for us to convert. We didn't have strong firm roots in any religion. What you're saying just doesn't make sense and has never went on anywhere in the world. For a group of people to live together for a thousand years, have their own state, their own kings, own unique names (later) and dialect and customs and yet never identify as a "nation" or people. There was a time before Serbs were called Serbs too, whatever their original origin may be that's irrelvant. At one point hey BECAME known as Serbs, especialy after taking orhtodoxy it was cemented. That's how new cultures are created, moving and mixing. What's wrong with that? So knowing this how exactly does it make a Bosnian identity any less valid? Lets face it. Orhtodox people in Bosnia call themselves Serbs because the religion is called "Serbian Orthodox" and that's really the only difference between them and "Bosnian Muslims". Unless of course Those Serbs KNOW their family recently came from Serbia and isn't native to Bosnia. Why was Bosnia "conuered" by Croatians or Serbians? Why did they keep losing it's grip on it? If the people were Serbs why would they have a problem being with Serbia? Lol obviosly they had a problem with that huh. I for one don't give a f**k about religions, I only care about my land and country and people, whiever God they may worship if any. Bosnia is my religion You call it BS but everyone besides Serbs and some Croats agrees on this. But as usual it's serbs against the world lol. In 1189 Ban Kulin issued the first written Bosnian document written in Bosnian Cyrillic, where he described Bosnia's statehood and referred to its people as Bosnians (Bošnjani). try deny that. plz how do you explain that? If you think everyone except for Serbs & some Croats agree with that then you are completely wrong. Croats & particularly Bosniaks are always trying to revise history, but Serbs will always have the satisfaction of knowing that the Serbian interpretation of history is basically the same as what you will read in any given text book. You have some points there, but at the end of the day it’s so convoluted and contradictory. That’s why you have to write a whole page - to obscure certain inescapable realities. The greatest inescapable reality of all being the fact that present day ‘Bosniaks’ would have been primarily Serbs/Croatians/Orthodox/Catholic-Christian prior to adopting Islam. Of course this must be the most bitter of pills to swallow for a Muslim… so the motivation to convolute & create a different history is completely obvious. It’s perhaps the greatest imaginable motivation to convolute history. The only people who call themselves Bosniaks are the Muslims of Bosnia - period. You will never convince me or any other Serb that he is a Bosniak by ethnicity. You can go ahead & be a Bosniaks. Serbs refer to you as Bosniaks. We are not denying you your current identity. We just know that it formed as a result of Islam. But see that's bulls**t lmao Bosniak is a pure creation of Islam huh? Then WHY oh WHY did the term Bosnjanin exist before Turks? Just a regional thing right? Well that's fine, it still distuingishes the people from the rest. You keep trying to deny what can't be denied. People from Bosnia are Bosnians (Bosanci) people from Serbia are Serbians, what's so hard to get there? I'm not pushing "Bosniak" on you. Today that' has the meaning that it does and can't be changed. But Bosnian "Serbs" are Pravoslavni Bosanci. Am I wrong? If you're native to Bosnia and Orthodox, can I call you a Orthodox Bosnian? Also by your logic if I renounce Islam tomorow and take up Budhism....what am I then? I'm no longer a Bosniak? What am I then? btw just the fact that the slavs who came to bosnia would've mixed with diferent native tribes then the slavs who came to serbia, is also a difference. I mean did I invent the term Bosniak or Bosnian? Obviosly it's existed since even Ban Kulin so plenty of people used it and felt like Bosnians. I swear Balkan is the only region where this dumb s**t happens. What's the difference between Americans and Canadians? Region. They have same religions and ethnicies living in both all together. So how is a diffeent land not a valid reason for a different identity? Why was there ever a medieval bosnian kingdom in the first place huh? With people who didn't want to be with Serbia or Croatia. Simply put, however, there is no sign that the population of pre-Ottoman Bosnia and Herzegovina, in whichever social stratum, had developed Croatian or Serbian ethnic consciousness even in a medieval sense of the word. To quote Noel Malcolm from the book "Bosnia A Short History": "As for the question of whether the inhabitants of Bosnia were really Croat or really Serb in 1180, it cannot be answered, for two reasons: first, because we lack evidence, and secondly, because the question lacks meaning. We can say that the majority of the Bosnian territory was probably occupied by Croats - or at least, by Slavs under Croat rule - in the seventh century; but that is a tribal label which has little or no meaning five centuries later. The Bosnians were generally closer to the Croats in their religious and political history; but to apply the modern notion of Croat identity (something constructed in recent centuries out of religion, history, and language) to anyone in this period would be an anachronism. All that one can sensibly say about the ethnic identity of the Bosnians is this: they were the Slavs who lived in Bosnia." According to the bosniac entry in the Oxford English Dictionary, the first known use of bosniak in English was in "1836 Penny Cycl. V. 231/1 The inhabitants of Bosnia are composed of Bosniaks, a race of Sclavonian origin." and it arrived in English either via the French "Bosniaque", or the German "Bosniake", or the Russian "Bosnyak". Heh, but apperantly NOBODY agrees with me eh?
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Post by sweetnugs on Jul 6, 2008 15:02:08 GMT -5
I agree 100%.
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Post by sweetnugs on Jul 6, 2008 15:02:25 GMT -5
Arsenije makes some good points but I do have to point out that the gap between universal understanding in Balkan is harde to bridge due to ethnic nationalism that usually explodes the worst in places like BiH. Its been my experience with some Bosniaks that they do not think it is important if they were Croats/Serbs/etc hundreds of years ago. Its a well known fact that the current day Italians are nothing more than a mixture of Romans and just about anyone else in the world. So many slaves from different areas passed through Rome during its reign, its impossible to find a true 'Italian' nowdays. The same can be said about current day Bosnians that are formed by Bosniacs, Serbs, Croats and other mixtures. Lets not also forget that the Roman generals were encouraged to retire and settle in Illyria so what does that tell us? Serbian and Croatian tribes may have settled in present day Balkan but they sure as hell didn't settle at an empty place. This is one arrogant thing I am ashamed my people carry. Considering the fact that when Serb and Croat tribes settled, there were already Illyrians, Romans and God knows what other people living there. Now those people were assimilated into being Serbs and Croats by force for sure, the same way Ottomans persued their interests in Balkans. I fail to see an issue of the Bosnian Nation existing in BiH. I sure as hell do not agree all Bosnians are Bosniaks either, but Bosnians-Hercegovians, in that sense do exist and they are no different than any other nation in the world that has seen an influx of different people, conversions, political mishaps and everything in between. One thing politicians in BiH do not realize is that the country is not just for Bosniaks, Croats and Serbs, someone has to think about the immigrants and also those mixed marriage kids who do not pick a side. It is wrong for the politicians in BiH to have to force people to choose one side or the other. All that does is creates problems within a family. Being Bosnian should be considered as being neutral. Bravo.
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Post by kapetan on Jul 6, 2008 15:06:07 GMT -5
Why cant ppl that are born and raised in BIH, say there Bosnian. THink about it, for all of those who oppose a Multi ethnic Republic of BIH. Why do you chose to live in a country which you do not love and dont care for. If i was a Croat (no offence to croats) and i hated BiH, Fuk id move soon as possible and i would change to be a Croatian citizen. IF you dont love BIH and you seek no peace there then f**k your self get out find some where else to live, Dont ruin other peoples pride and love for there country. this little of topic but Why are the ppl in BIH fighting one another when they should be fighting against the government. Its full of retards who are nationalist and are looking to make people hate one another while they make money. Common People of BIH wake up Join the rest of world, make a f**king change. Let the new generation be the best generation there is to be for BIH I'm a nationalist but I don't hate Bosniaks. I'm more than happy to be a friend with a Bosniak. In fact I see many similarities between Serbs, Croatians & Bosniaks. There's more we have in common with eachother than not. We do share the same roots afterall and all speak a slav language. I'm more likely to find common understanding with a Bosniak then say a German, American or whoever else. Yet at the same time I will always be more comfortable around Russians/Ukrainians/Romanians/Greeks... ie slavs & people of the same faith. If anything this multi-ethnic idea was better off in the Yugoslavia format. I think that kinship with Russians is bulls**t. Half the world is Christian, and they sure as hell don't feel like brothers. And I don't feel like any Muslims are my brothers. Nothing more annoying then when some Turk comes around calling Bosniaks and Albanians his "brothers". I'd sooner find common ground with ANY Balkan people, then some f**kin Arabs or Russians or whoever. It's stupid to even belive they care about any of us cuz of simmilar faith.
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Post by theblackswans on Jul 6, 2008 20:39:49 GMT -5
I'm a nationalist but I don't hate Bosniaks. I'm more than happy to be a friend with a Bosniak. In fact I see many similarities between Serbs, Croatians & Bosniaks. There's more we have in common with eachother than not. We do share the same roots afterall and all speak a slav language. I'm more likely to find common understanding with a Bosniak then say a German, American or whoever else. Yet at the same time I will always be more comfortable around Russians/Ukrainians/Romanians/Greeks... ie slavs & people of the same faith. If anything this multi-ethnic idea was better off in the Yugoslavia format. I think that kinship with Russians is bulls**t. Half the world is Christian, and they sure as hell don't feel like brothers. And I don't feel like any Muslims are my brothers. Nothing more annoying then when some Turk comes around calling Bosniaks and Albanians his "brothers". I'd sooner find common ground with ANY Balkan people, then some f**kin Arabs or Russians or whoever. It's stupid to even belive they care about any of us cuz of simmilar faith. Your right in both cases, Russians don't even care for there own why would they care about the Serbs in the Balkans?
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Post by kapetan on Jul 6, 2008 20:52:18 GMT -5
People don't realize Russia is just another America. Just another "empire", and they see Serbia as their nice little foothold in the Balkan area. The one they could never get during Tito's rule.
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Jul 7, 2008 9:32:19 GMT -5
I'm a nationalist but I don't hate Bosniaks. I'm more than happy to be a friend with a Bosniak. In fact I see many similarities between Serbs, Croatians & Bosniaks. There's more we have in common with eachother than not. We do share the same roots afterall and all speak a slav language. I'm more likely to find common understanding with a Bosniak then say a German, American or whoever else. Yet at the same time I will always be more comfortable around Russians/Ukrainians/Romanians/Greeks... ie slavs & people of the same faith. If anything this multi-ethnic idea was better off in the Yugoslavia format. I think that kinship with Russians is bulls**t. Half the world is Christian, and they sure as hell don't feel like brothers. And I don't feel like any Muslims are my brothers. Nothing more annoying then when some Turk comes around calling Bosniaks and Albanians his "brothers". I'd sooner find common ground with ANY Balkan people, then some f**kin Arabs or Russians or whoever. It's stupid to even belive they care about any of us cuz of simmilar faith. Well it's nice to hear that you don't feel kinship with the Turks but that does not seem to be the norm. I heard Dino Merlin on TV not too long ago say he was going for Turkey in the European Championships. Look at how the Bosniaks cheered for Turkey & clashed with the Croats in Mostar recently. There's always stuff going around about Turkish-Bosnian friendship. Look on youtube & you'll see all this Turkish-Bosnian-Albanian friendship stuff. As for Serbs & Russians, well there really is a lot of genuine friendship. In Beograd & Serbia you will find heaps of places & things named in respect to Russia (Hotel Moskva, Ruski Car Restaurant, Russian salads etc). Russians are also one of the main tourists groups & investors in Serbia. Just search the net & you will easily find slavs (Polish, Ukrainians, Czechs, Slovaks even Slovenians) always reflecting a kinship with us. Romanians, Greeks Armenians also support us as Orthodox brothers. You can say we are hated but that's only politically. Amongst people we have more mutual friendships. But then who claims kinship with the Bosniaks?... um Turks, Albanians, sometimes Croats. Who claims kinship with Croats?... um maybe Bosniaks, a little bit Italians, Irish & other Catholics I've noticed a bit... ...Personally I know a lot of slavs (Polish/Czechs & Russians) & I feel much more comfortable around them knowing I can express my culture/religion/politics & have a strong mutual understanding. They are individually greater slavophiles than myself & have strong feelings towards Serbia & Serbs. On the other hand when I am around Bosniaks, all can be well at a certain level... in music I can most identify with Bosniaks. but of course you have to avoid religion & politics... which I would not do around the aforementioned.
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Post by osmano on Jul 7, 2008 11:00:41 GMT -5
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Post by osmano on Jul 7, 2008 11:10:18 GMT -5
I think that kinship with Russians is bulls**t. Half the world is Christian, and they sure as hell don't feel like brothers. And I don't feel like any Muslims are my brothers. Nothing more annoying then when some Turk comes around calling Bosniaks and Albanians his "brothers". I'd sooner find common ground with ANY Balkan people, then some f**kin Arabs or Russians or whoever. It's stupid to even belive they care about any of us cuz of simmilar faith. Well it's nice to hear that you don't feel kinship with the Turks but that does not seem to be the norm. I heard Dino Merlin on TV not too long ago say he was going for Turkey in the European Championships. Look at how the Bosniaks cheered for Turkey & clashed with the Croats in Mostar recently. There's always stuff going around about Turkish-Bosnian friendship. Look on youtube & you'll see all this Turkish-Bosnian-Albanian friendship stuff. As for Serbs & Russians, well there really is a lot of genuine friendship. In Beograd & Serbia you will find heaps of places & things named in respect to Russia (Hotel Moskva, Ruski Car Restaurant, Russian salads etc). Russians are also one of the main tourists groups & investors in Serbia. Just search the net & you will easily find slavs (Polish, Ukrainians, Czechs, Slovaks even Slovenians) always reflecting a kinship with us. Romanians, Greeks Armenians also support us as Orthodox brothers. You can say we are hated but that's only politically. Amongst people we have more mutual friendships. But then who claims kinship with the Bosniaks?... um Turks, Albanians, sometimes Croats. Who claims kinship with Croats?... um maybe Bosniaks, a little bit Italians, Irish & other Catholics I've noticed a bit... ...Personally I know a lot of slavs (Polish/Czechs & Russians) & I feel much more comfortable around them knowing I can express my culture/religion/politics & have a strong mutual understanding. They are individually greater slavophiles than myself & have strong feelings towards Serbia & Serbs. On the other hand when I am around Bosniaks, all can be well at a certain level... in music I can most identify with Bosniaks. but of course you have to avoid religion & politics... which I would not do around the aforementioned.
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bihvojska
Amicus
"A Great Man is Remmbered By What He Has Created Not By What He Has Destoryed"
Posts: 268
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Post by bihvojska on Jul 7, 2008 13:10:32 GMT -5
If people can learn to be smart and live with each other, and put back religon as a personal feeling towards god, then we can call all the people of BIH Bosnian no matter of religon, we can stop arguing about nonsense. Work together and push BIH to max to be a great country. Look around in europe at all the countrys, beautiful, rich, smart ppl, BIH dumass ppl, cant work together, full of criminals. BIH doesnt even deserve to be in europe we should be in Africa, eating one another. Come on ppl, grow up, live together and work together it wont hurt u...
Oh by the way im a Bosnian (muslim) and i love turkey and etc....but as far as i no Turkey likes BIH too...but not enough to kiss our ass, meaning Bosnians kiss turks ass for everything and they should stop...im not trying to stop friend ship with turkey im just saying we are kissing there ass and it aint doing much,,,We can get better with out Balkan Brothers if we can Work together...
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Post by osmano on Jul 7, 2008 13:51:48 GMT -5
If people can learn to be smart and live with each other, and put back religon as a personal feeling towards god, then we can call all the people of BIH Bosnian no matter of religon, we can stop arguing about nonsense. What about RS and "Hrvatska republika Herceg Bosna"?
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Post by kapetan on Jul 7, 2008 14:21:37 GMT -5
I think that kinship with Russians is bulls**t. Half the world is Christian, and they sure as hell don't feel like brothers. And I don't feel like any Muslims are my brothers. Nothing more annoying then when some Turk comes around calling Bosniaks and Albanians his "brothers". I'd sooner find common ground with ANY Balkan people, then some f**kin Arabs or Russians or whoever. It's stupid to even belive they care about any of us cuz of simmilar faith. Well it's nice to hear that you don't feel kinship with the Turks but that does not seem to be the norm. I heard Dino Merlin on TV not too long ago say he was going for Turkey in the European Championships. Look at how the Bosniaks cheered for Turkey & clashed with the Croats in Mostar recently. There's always stuff going around about Turkish-Bosnian friendship. Look on youtube & you'll see all this Turkish-Bosnian-Albanian friendship stuff. As for Serbs & Russians, well there really is a lot of genuine friendship. In Beograd & Serbia you will find heaps of places & things named in respect to Russia (Hotel Moskva, Ruski Car Restaurant, Russian salads etc). Russians are also one of the main tourists groups & investors in Serbia. Just search the net & you will easily find slavs (Polish, Ukrainians, Czechs, Slovaks even Slovenians) always reflecting a kinship with us. Romanians, Greeks Armenians also support us as Orthodox brothers. You can say we are hated but that's only politically. Amongst people we have more mutual friendships. But then who claims kinship with the Bosniaks?... um Turks, Albanians, sometimes Croats. Who claims kinship with Croats?... um maybe Bosniaks, a little bit Italians, Irish & other Catholics I've noticed a bit... ...Personally I know a lot of slavs (Polish/Czechs & Russians) & I feel much more comfortable around them knowing I can express my culture/religion/politics & have a strong mutual understanding. They are individually greater slavophiles than myself & have strong feelings towards Serbia & Serbs. On the other hand when I am around Bosniaks, all can be well at a certain level... in music I can most identify with Bosniaks. but of course you have to avoid religion & politics... which I would not do around the aforementioned. You don't have to feel a brotherhood with Turkey to root for them in soccer when besides Croatia they're the closest one to you historicly in the tournament and share a religion. Cheering in soccer isn't exactly a pledge of eternal love. I cheered for Croatia. As for Mostar, that happend last time too, when Brazil beat the Croats and Bosniaks cheered for Brazil. In Mostar they cheer for anyone who's playing the Croats. I get the Bosnian-Albanian friendship, those are two Balkan people. I'm not against being friendly with Turkey or anyone, I just don't feel a kinship to a f**kin foreigner. As for Polish and all that...I don't know where you live or how old you are but everyone from Serbs to Croats to Bosniaks used to laugh at Polish immigrants when they used to flock to Yugoslavia and Croatia's beaches. We basicly found them "dirty". I don't like Polacks at all and neither does anyone I know Serb or Bosniak. Trying to claim some kinship with them is just ..it's so desperate. The fact that you an talk politics with them and they won't tear your head off isn't really anything except the fact that their politics don't colide with yours since you don't live together. I don't claim anything but Balkan. And I think it's sad that people are ditching that, for some make belive friendship from the other side of the continent. Also it doesn't help that most Europeans are annoying and pompous as fuck, and treat us like the Black eye or Middle East Jr. of their faggy continent.
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Post by tito on Jul 8, 2008 9:51:02 GMT -5
About 900 more then 2006, 17000 in only 2 years! That is like 4% of the estimated croat population in BiH.
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Post by sweetnugs on Jul 8, 2008 16:36:07 GMT -5
About 900 more then 2006, 17000 in only 2 years! That is like 4% of the estimated croat population in BiH. Like I said, krivi su sami a sada bi da placu i bune se.
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MiG
Amicus
Republika
Posts: 4,793
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Post by MiG on Jul 8, 2008 17:25:56 GMT -5
About 900 more then 2006, 17000 in only 2 years! That is like 4% of the estimated croat population in BiH. Like I said, krivi su sami a sada bi da placu i bune se. Quite true, no way of getting around that. The sane people are leaving, but they are also leaving something behind, which is the legacy of Croats, and the ultranationalist insane which the R. of BiH will one day have to deal with. If things stay the way they are, and they are treated equally, then there will be nothing wrong. If things are shifted, and they start becoming oppressed, then things will tip the scale, and shit will go down.
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Post by zgembo on Jul 8, 2008 23:10:21 GMT -5
I'm a nationalist but I don't hate Bosniaks. I'm more than happy to be a friend with a Bosniak. In fact I see many similarities between Serbs, Croatians & Bosniaks. There's more we have in common with eachother than not. We do share the same roots afterall and all speak a slav language. I'm more likely to find common understanding with a Bosniak then say a German, American or whoever else. Yet at the same time I will always be more comfortable around Russians/Ukrainians/Romanians/Greeks... ie slavs & people of the same faith. If anything this multi-ethnic idea was better off in the Yugoslavia format. I think that kinship with Russians is bulls**t. Half the world is Christian, and they sure as hell don't feel like brothers. And I don't feel like any Muslims are my brothers. Nothing more annoying then when some Turk comes around calling Bosniaks and Albanians his "brothers". I'd sooner find common ground with ANY Balkan people, then some f**kin Arabs or Russians or whoever. It's stupid to even belive they care about any of us cuz of simmilar faith. First of all, half the world is not Orthodox Christian. I, as an Orthodox Christian, feel little kinship with Catholics and Protestants. Secondly, Serbs and Russians share a common Slavic language and pan-Slavic orientation. Finally, they have been our benefactor and promoter in international politics for over two centuries (the last reason is the biggest reason we have a kinship). If Christianity and language were common bonds, we should be the best of friends of with Croats.
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