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Post by epiroti on Jan 15, 2009 5:28:13 GMT -5
You didn't have enough sleep you say? No problem. We continue another time...
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Jan 15, 2009 5:58:50 GMT -5
If I was Albo I would feel angry for those Arvanites who don't like "our" fara. The sad thing is that some Arvanites and some non-Arvanites Greeks tend to invent theories like the above. This started from the 19th century with Pelasgian theories and continued later with similar ones. Greek "official" historiography and state never accepted such ideas.
Albanians of course in their agonized try to fill some blank pages in their history books do what they do today.
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donnie
Senior Moderator
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Post by donnie on Jan 15, 2009 6:07:34 GMT -5
Which one? The one about Arvanites being Dorians?
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Post by epiroti on Jan 15, 2009 6:33:20 GMT -5
If I was Albo I would feel angry for those Arvanites who don't like "our" fara. Naah, you know we are communists. We spread the wealth... or our "fara" (if you know what I mean)! In the middle-ages, some rulers in greece weren't happy about the men that they had as soldiers. Cutting a long story short, we sent you some fine blood. Something you had been missing for over a millenium. And to make the deal even sweeter, we told them to stay... contribute to your gene-pool, you know? And you fell so much in love with their deeds, their valour and character, that you did all that was in your power to teach all young Kartela's and Murati's that the arvanit were in fact greeks! For if they were not greeks, then what would greece have to show since the time that Constantinople fell? Only a bunch of traders?! Nooo... And some of you are so retarded that don't accept all the obvious indicators, like LANGUAGE, that show they were merely albanians.
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Post by libofshe on Jan 15, 2009 6:34:13 GMT -5
If I was Albo I would feel angry for those Arvanites who don't like "our" fara. disappointed is the word, its understandable, greek propaganda machine has done its work well, but no matter, it is what it is. arvanites and greeks that tend to fill the blank pages of albanian history with fictious historical legacy....just for kicks? substance and fact rather than when it emerged a hypothesis, i assure you, albs hae been mentioned as native brave, ancient, stern people of the balcans in numerous chronicles in nobility corrrespondences. greek history also does not officially recognize having traded their own people, having cut many deals with ottomans and being chums with them up until they turks started to tighten the noose at the turn of the 18'th centuary, siezing land and restricting privelege, you also deny genocide and ethnic cleansing. yeah, whatever you say, all knowing oracle!
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Post by Arxileas on Jan 15, 2009 7:13:42 GMT -5
It definitely would make more sense to say that the Albanians are of Arvanite descent.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Jan 15, 2009 7:22:29 GMT -5
It definitely would make more sense to say that the Albanians are of Arvanite descent. Of course it makes sense to you, otherwise you would not be Arsehileas!
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Post by Arxileas on Jan 15, 2009 7:26:38 GMT -5
Well one has to accept the fact the Greeks were here before you all, it's not that hard really is it donnie.
By the way my handle is Arxileas.
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donnie
Senior Moderator
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Post by donnie on Jan 15, 2009 7:28:30 GMT -5
My bad, typo ...
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Post by Arxileas on Jan 15, 2009 7:40:27 GMT -5
Not only that. Today's Greek Arvanites are what today's Albanians were like before islamic influences and foreign propaganda set in, that’s why it definitely would make more sense to say that the Albanians are of Arvanite descent.
Anyways.......
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Post by libofshe on Jan 15, 2009 7:49:38 GMT -5
Not only that. Today's Greek Arvanites are what today's Albanians were like before islamic influences and foreign propaganda set in, that’s why it definitely would make more sense to say that the Albanians are of Arvanite descent. Anyways....... here we go, religion again, its amazing how you conveniently manage to tie it in to everything, even when talking about races, its like islam causes a genome wash out and replaces them with islamic genes and gives people a new race, Arqile, i dare you to read your post back and not laugh at it....i dare you!
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Jan 15, 2009 7:50:33 GMT -5
Which one? The one about Arvanites being Dorians? Yeap,and the pelasgic one... If I was Albo I would feel angry for those Arvanites who don't like "our" fara. Naah, you know we are communists. We spread the wealth... or our "fara" (if you know what I mean)! In the middle-ages, some rulers in greece weren't happy about the men that they had as soldiers. Cutting a long story short, we sent you some fine blood. Something you had been missing for over a millenium. And to make the deal even sweeter, we told them to stay... contribute to your gene-pool, you know? And you fell so much in love with their deeds, their valour and character, that you did all that was in your power to teach all young Kartela's and Murati's that the arvanit were in fact greeks! For if they were not greeks, then what would greece have to show since the time that Constantinople fell? Only a bunch of traders?! Nooo... And some of you are so retarded that don't accept all the obvious indicators, like LANGUAGE, that show they were merely albanians. Is it the water in Moreas...or the climate that make people freedomlovers...? Arvanites here in Peloponnesus were used firstly as farmers and were invited from Greek and Franko despots and lords. After they were invited and used as Stradioti causing more trouble than help. If we did what we did with no more than 8-9 per cent Arvanitic population(in Peloponnesus) why you with no less than 90 per cent Arber blood in you did what you did... If I was Albo I would feel angry for those Arvanites who don't like "our" fara. disappointed is the word, its understandable, greek propaganda machine has done its work well, but no matter, it is what it is. You know that whenever a Greek (Arvanitis or not) reads this has a little smile in his face Keep disappointing If I was Albo I would feel angry for those Arvanites who don't like "our" fara. arvanites and greeks that tend to fill the blank pages of albanian history with fictious historical legacy....just for kicks? . If I was Albo I would feel angry for those Arvanites who don't like "our" fara. substance and fact rather than when it emerged a hypothesis, i assure you, albs hae been mentioned as native brave, ancient, stern people of the balcans in numerous chronicles in nobility corrrespondences. Tell me the results of these characteristics... If I was Albo I would feel angry for those Arvanites who don't like "our" fara. greek history also does not officially recognize having traded their own people, having cut many deals with ottomans and being chums with them up until they turks started to tighten the noose at the turn of the 18'th centuary, siezing land and restricting privelege, you also deny genocide and ethnic cleansing. Trading people...are you talking about the slaves in the Trojan War? Genocide? If with ethnic cleansing you mean population exchanges with Turkey and Bulgaria...trust me none Greek likes that Greek isn't spoken in Ionia and in Black Sea today...Now if you speak about these Chams...call it as you want....but when all the Germans return to their pre-WW2 homes I'll be the first who will welcome these Tsamides in Greece.
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Post by epiroti on Jan 15, 2009 8:15:49 GMT -5
If we did what we did with no more than 8-9 per cent Arvanitic population(in Peloponnesus) why you with no less than 90 per cent Arber blood in you did what you did...
You did what you did... and we did what we did... and somehow from all this you (as an individual) were the main looser - because from all the phenomena that were just random chance, they convolved in such a way that effectively made you a fvcking retard. Now you're trying to tell me that the greeks fought harder than the albanians? You'll see when the documentary about scanderbeg comes out - will be a production for history channel - about what a fighting machine the Arber nation was. Not even mentioning the other numerous rebellions after that.
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Jan 15, 2009 8:26:21 GMT -5
What happened to that Arber war machine...after Kastrioti? How did you use it? For the Osman bayrak's good ?
You know I can use "adjectives" too like "alvano zwo","fu€king idiot" but I wont...
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Post by epiroti on Jan 15, 2009 9:19:17 GMT -5
You should actualy look at... uh, fvck it...
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Post by Kassandros on Jan 15, 2009 13:10:28 GMT -5
epiroti "For if they were not greeks, then what would greece have to show since the time that Constantinople fell? Only a bunch of traders?!" ------------------------------------------------------------------ Of course.. not to mention that bunch of traders were the FIRST to rebel in Balkans to kick out Turks. Not to mention that bunch of traders won in almost all the Balkan Wars and in the Macedonian Struggle. Also that bunch of traders won a 5 times bigger country in WW2. Not bad for traders eh? I wonder what would they have succeed military if they were war-skilled.. lol lol Also, if Arvanites have the same DNA with Albanians as you claim... how it comes and the ones in Greece were rebelious and the ones in Albania accepted the Ottoman occupation.. and not only that but they became Muslims too? It is obvious Arvanites are Greeks. "No" its easier for them than "yes" Nehhhhh... they're Dorians. Crystal clear.
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Post by meltdown711 on Jan 15, 2009 13:37:38 GMT -5
Arvanites were not Albanian no scholar says that, except the Albanian ones perhaps. Keep in mind that the Arvanites (meant the group of people that migrated to Greece) are an older people than the people which is called Albanians today. The Albanians may be Arvanites but not vice versa. Thats not true, Byzantine sources are what first mention the Arvanites in what is today central Albania (Arvanon) and they use the term interchangeably with Alvanon. In one occassion the same tribe could be called Arbanitai and on a different Byzantine source Alvanoi. Other times they would not calle them either but just Illyrians. So this idea is wrong. And as for "Albanians" descending from Arvanites. I piss on that. I have nothing to do with those grekofil pieces of chit. They are a spawn of the people who lived and continue to live in the same spot today not vice versa. We removed them from our rib, not the otherway around. The diaspora can never be the originals.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Jan 15, 2009 14:17:46 GMT -5
So on one side you have warlike Arvanites who never allow themselves to be under Ottoman control (nor do they convert to Islam) and feel brotherhood with other Hellenes and are aware of their Epirotic Dorian origins. In fact they are often in Hellenic front lines against Ottomans. They cringe at the very thought of kinship with today's Albanians. Surely today they would be most similar to original pre-ottoman Albanians of the days of Skenderbeg. After Ottomans take medieval Arvanon many Arvanites either go to Italy (now known as Arbanesh) or Greece (known known as Arvanites). Perhaps most.
On the other side you have modern Albanians (Albania being almost a 100 year old state entity as we know it today) who we serving for most part the interests of Ottoman Porta throughout Balkans. State they live in is a state that became independent the last in Balkans and not because of their own will but do to western intervention after Ottoman collapse. Formely very loyal ottoman subjects (exception are perhaps only warlike catholic Malsors of the NW Albania).
Thus a very different role in comparison. The correlation between the two seem to stop at the language. (different appearance, culture, behavior exhibited)
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Post by meltdown711 on Jan 15, 2009 14:33:21 GMT -5
Admin, your pseudo-history is ridiculous. Have you read anything about this or are you just spouting off? As I stated above the term Arvanite used to be used interchangibly with Albanian, there is just an r and l diff. As Albanians began to convert to the Islam during the Ottoman Empire, the terms became less interchangible. Arbanasi/Arberesh/Arbanese/Arvanites came to mean a still Christian who was of Albanian origin, while Albanian/Arnaut/Alvanos etc. designed the recently converted Albanians. In a religious age these two started creating rifts. This is it, anc historically, there were not such big cultural diff. Look at the katund and youll see how strong the similarity was in terms of daily life.
And btw, it wasnt most. historians of Scanderbeg's time have it at 1/4 of the population.
Sorry, but your post is bullchit.
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Post by greekscandal on Jan 15, 2009 14:33:44 GMT -5
Emp
You only mention Ottoman Porta interests
You forget to mention Albanian Roman or Byzantine Porta interests
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