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Post by fannoli on Aug 15, 2008 0:39:16 GMT -5
I like the second video mix of songs. Good job!
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Post by ngadhnjyesi on Aug 15, 2008 0:39:53 GMT -5
PS: the Greek minority did not sing Albanian in Albania if I recall well... But they did sing to Enver Hoxha just like they were required to. As for the treatment of the albanians in Greece getting better, as Teuta said, are the albanians that made that possible...if that's true anyway... Yes Albanians should get all the credit and none should go to the Greeks. You don't think this is a mutual relationship? What can I say, I just don't share the same feelings with you guys on this issue. Yes I am very well aware of the historical Greco-Albanian relationship and I have a ton of relatives in Athens. My parents grew up in the countryside in Gjirokaster and Delvine so pretty much everyone they ever knew lives in Greece (well some have returned). I am not trying to paint here some kind of a rosy life that Albanians live in Greece, I am just trying to say that things have improved. This is from oral testimony from those who live in Greece and those who visit. I see this as a positive sign. Don't I wish that more is done and the treatment is even better? Of course, but one step at a time and I think that the steps take so far are mostly in a positive direction. It takes years for the native population to absorb such a large wave on newcomers. You see the same problems all over the globe and from what I'm told even in Tirana which saw its population grow from 250,000 in 1990 to 800,000 today. The natives in Tirana don't see eye-to-eye with the newcomers from the North and South.
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Post by panagiotopoulos on Aug 15, 2008 11:34:36 GMT -5
Guys, The Dasho Kurti video is good. How is it a sign of inferiority for him to sing in Greek again? Last time I checked he was an entertainer, and he resides in Greece. In order to entertain musically the people and country he lives in it is probably a wise thing to sing in the language that the people understand. I mean can you just imagine this wonderful musician and singer being cast aside because he was stubborn and wanted to sing in Albanian? I can only imagine if he went to a club and sang in Albanian... it would probably clear the Greeks out of there pretty fast. I think it is good that the guy has found a level of success but he never would have done it in Greece if wasnt singing in Greek because IN GREECE GREEKS DO NOT LISTEN TO ALBANIAN MUSIC. AS SURPRISING AS THAT MAY SOUND TO YOU THAT IS THE TRUTH. Although I would listen to songs like that one by Gjitonia. Very good. Adio sas.
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Post by ngadhnjyesi on Aug 15, 2008 12:17:29 GMT -5
Ngadhi, I don't think you have lived in Greece...anyway, I know you'll say that what that has to to with the topic, but I think it does, because you don't know how it feels to not talk on the streets of Athens or everywhere in Greece in your own language because you might get deportation. These are the memories that this albanian song in greek brings me, because there is no reason that a song to be translated, unless the song is popular, and I don't think that albanian song is popular in Greece, not even in Albania either. I see it too as a sign of inferiority...yes I know that albanians are the immigrants there, but getting in the business of licking ass.es doesn't make the things better... AlbQ did you listen to that Labce song in Greek? Now that should infuriate you not Dasho Kurti.
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Post by kartadolofonos on Aug 15, 2008 13:29:50 GMT -5
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on Aug 15, 2008 13:36:33 GMT -5
Albanians in Greece are quickly becoming a mainstay of society... espeicially with the younger crowd.... the older Greek crowd still poses a problem in being prejudiced against immigrants.
My wife is in Greece presently and she renovated an apartment we got there and rented out to a young Albanian couple with one young kid..and she tells me they are absolutley nice... and a pleasure doing business with...she is just really mad at some of the contractors who tell her don't spend too much money...in it..since you are renting it to these types.... of people. She told one guy..go look at your face in the mirror before you make comments about others.
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Aug 15, 2008 14:13:02 GMT -5
.........i will post later
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Post by panagiotopoulos on Aug 15, 2008 16:35:27 GMT -5
^^^^ We cannot wait!!!!!!
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Post by Teuta1975 on Aug 15, 2008 20:23:31 GMT -5
Ngadhnjyes,
They sing to Enver Hoxha (if you see carefully) once in Greek and once in Albanian. They sing to a DICTATOR and, anyway, nobody denied them the right to sing in their own language. In Greece, no DICTATOR is in power now, and yet, the guy sings in Greek an ALBANIAN FOLK song. What is the difference between being a Dictatorial country and Democratic country? Which is more democratic at this point?
1. The Albanian FOLK music is my heritage, your heritage, and all ALBANIANS heritage. No one is allowed to misuse it in order to get some personal credits. He may sing in Greek as much as he pleases the GREEK music and his songs, but not songs that belong to me and to you only! Unless he sings them properly (in Albanian).
2. The Enver Hoxha song is not a traditional FOLK song, but a song attributed to the Dictator to flatter him; sang by Greek minority in Albanian language (and in Greek language- they never forget at this point and nobody says anything) as an expression of "admiration" for the Dictator on that particular time.
3. If the guy is really talented, then he should learn to earn the credits with his talent (which he seems not to lack when plays the instrument, except his voice that sucks) and not to play "Hellenization" to gain fame!
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Post by Teuta1975 on Aug 15, 2008 20:25:02 GMT -5
He lives in Greece and let him sing in Greek as much as pleases...may he sing all the GREEK songs in Greek language, but not Albanian FOLK songs in Greek language...it is very very offensive...
PS: and yes, he pisses me off...
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Post by albquietman on Aug 15, 2008 22:26:18 GMT -5
Actually that was albanian music, just in greek, and greek listened to it. So the problem here is why greeks do not like to listen to albanian songs in albanian, when we albanians are very open to the greek music, and not only to the greek music. Seems like Dasho Kurti knew that when he started to translate the albanian song in greek, but like it or not, it sounds like he was doing a favor to the greeks and to give himself some credit with albanian folk songs that originally for centuries are sang in albanian, just because greeks don't like the albanian language...a little strange, because they used too in 70s...
No I didn't Ngadhi, and I think it's better, because that would had pissed me off...
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Post by ngadhnjyesi on Aug 15, 2008 22:31:17 GMT -5
No I didn't Ngadhi, and I think it's better, because that would had pissed me off... Yes I strongly suggest you don't do it cause you might risk breaking your computer. I think I cracked my monitor a little bit.
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Post by albquietman on Aug 15, 2008 22:38:13 GMT -5
Thanks for saving my laptop and sorry to hear about yours
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Post by Teuta1975 on Aug 16, 2008 2:26:57 GMT -5
AlbQ, I think the problem here is not that Greeks do not like to listen to Albanian music, but to Albanian language. They enjoy Albanian music with Greek words, but not the same music in Albanian... and the worst is that some people see only the appearance of what seems to be the "cultural and values" without being fully aware that a culture cannot be separated from the language.
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Post by albquietman on Aug 16, 2008 2:34:57 GMT -5
It's not only that Teuta. I'm afraid greeks think that our music, the South Albanian one is their music, so in other words deep inside they think that we stole their music and put albanian words...in some way fits their agenda about the so called Vorio-Epir.
I don't know if you've heard, but they claim that even the polyphony is of greek origin, when everyone knows that the polyphony in its original form has been preserved only in Albania...well the word is greek, but that doesn't make it greek...
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Post by Teuta1975 on Aug 16, 2008 2:40:58 GMT -5
I don't know what to say about that. The term is Greek indeed and it means: "various tones" in music; it may be that Greeks named the music after they heard it since the folk songs have no names of their types, just characterize themselves from the areas where they are created (at least in Albania). Therefore, it may exist the possibility that it was Albanian song since it is not preserved in other parts of Greece except the part inhabited by Albanians....and it is alive today Hopefully they do not start singing all songs in Greek language though...if they do, I am going to sing all Greek folk songs in Albanian...lol...
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Post by albquietman on Aug 16, 2008 2:55:14 GMT -5
The term is greek and that's for sure, but the greeks themselves are not the ones that named it. To be accurate, the albanian polyphony is called iso-polyphony. But let's go back who named it, and it wasn't only the music that greek was used, but medicine, science and art in general. According to Wikipedia: After the first millennium, European monks decided to start translating the works of Greek philosophers into the vernacular, following in the footsteps of the Muslims who did that 500 years earlier. Western Europeans were aware of Plato, Socrates, and Hippocrates during the Middle Ages. However they had largely lost touch with the content of their surviving works because the use of Greek as a living language was restricted to the lands of the Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantium). The ancient works, as well as Muslim commentaries, started then being translated. Once they were accessible, the philosophies had a great impact on the mind of Western Europe. Faced with new ideas, society was forced to view itself in a different light as secular ideas competed with the doctrine of the Roman church.
This sparked a number of innovations in medicine, science, art, and music.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PolyphonyAnd the iso-polyphony is albanian, as the the site above says: Iso-polyphony is a form of traditional Albanian polyphonic music. It can be divided into two major stylistic groups as performed by the Ghegs of northern Albania and Tosks and Labs living in the southern part of the country. The term iso is related to the drone, which accompanies the iso-polyphonic singing. The drone is performed in two ways: among the Tosks, it is always continuous and sung on the syllable ‘e’, using staggered breathing; while among the Labs, the drone is sometimes sung as a rhythmic tone, performed to the text of the song. It can be differentiated between two-, three- and four-voice polyphony. The phenomenon of Albanian folk iso-polyphony is proclaimed by UNESCO as a "Masterpiece of the Oral and Intangible heritage of Humanity".I've seen people in this forum claiming that the iso-polyphony is greek, that's why I mentioned it.
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Post by Teuta1975 on Aug 16, 2008 2:58:25 GMT -5
Yeah, right...that's why Albanians sing it...
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Post by kartadolofonos on Aug 16, 2008 10:18:53 GMT -5
albquietman , teuta1975 you try here to claim ,dispute Greek Heritage Epirot lamentation Moiroloi live, death, feelings imaginations (lament) connotes "crying one's fate" (moira). ...... Festival, Comedy and Tragedy: the Art of Greek origins of Theatre.... [glow=blue,2,300]Polyphonic or Moirologia[/glow], this scale is identified with the Doric way of ancient Greeks, the par excellence Hellenic harmony. Except from its scale, what pleads for the very old origin of the kind is its vocal, collective, rhetorical and modal character. Greece and the islands contains folk songs that are mostly pentatonic and polyphonic, sung by both male and female singers. Distinctive songs include lament songs (mirolóyia), The clarinet is the most prominent folk instrument in Epirus, used to accompany dances, mostly slow and heavy, like the menousis, fisouni, podhia, sta dio, sta tria, zagorisios, kentimeni, koftos, yiatros and tsamikos dance..
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Post by Teuta1975 on Aug 16, 2008 13:26:19 GMT -5
Karta (modified) as child...
;D
nice music though
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