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Post by PrijesDardanian on Mar 24, 2008 22:34:59 GMT -5
Wow.... That looks just like my father. ;D ;D ;D avvvvv how luck are you
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Post by panagiotopoulos on Mar 24, 2008 22:59:45 GMT -5
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Post by atlantis on Mar 24, 2008 23:03:54 GMT -5
Well, I am not gonna bother to read all that. I just saw a video on you tube of Mike Ditka adjusting his nuts. Funny stuff. Poor greeks .....what kind of presantation and arguments have left ......Shame.....Shame and I thought you are a great culture ... you completely disappoint me ....never ever any real argument ... any book read.........just a bunch of Lazy teenager .....I see who are the real pelasgians ..........look at all those threads post by post and compare knowledges......I see the future ....good job albanian students ..........you deserve the best.
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Post by panagiotopoulos on Mar 24, 2008 23:06:23 GMT -5
Well, I am not gonna bother to read all that. I just saw a video on you tube of Mike Ditka adjusting his nuts. Funny stuff. Poor greeks .....what kind of presantation and arguments have left ......Shame.....Shame and I thought you are a great culture ... you completely disappoint me ....never ever any real argument ... any book read.........just a bunch of Lazy teenager .....I see who are the real pelasgians ..........look at all those threads post by post and compare knowledges......I see the future ....good job albanian students ..........you deserve the best. Your right. I am going to drink some Frappe right now and continue to studying for the rest of the night. Good night. Keep posting and I will be sure to read. Well... I probably won't read them nor anybody else, but hey. Keep up the good work. Somebody someday will give a chit.
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Post by panagiotopoulos on Mar 24, 2008 23:06:51 GMT -5
By the way did I mention the Souliotes were Greeks? Good night.
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Arlin
New Member
Posts: 44
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Post by Arlin on Mar 25, 2008 2:06:06 GMT -5
I would like to respond to the genetic map/ language similarity theory that Emperor Aadmin has proposed (please reference scientific data if possible) To simplify it for others: 1- It was suggested that a prevalence of the haplotype R1b (not a gene, but an SNP [single nucleotide polymorphism] ancestral group) in Albanians vs. its neighbors implies an ancestral relation with the Celtics where R1b* is dominant. 2- Furthermore, a perceived similarity between Celtic and Albanian language (based on a few shared unique words and accent/musicality? O.O ), was used to propose the Albanisation of the indigenous southern Europe population by the Celts between 7cent and 11 cent AD. This theory can be challenged on many levels: 1- Genetic validity and the relevance that the haplotype R1b contributes to the greater pool of Haplotypes of a population - which in total define the uniqueness of a population. 2- The assumption that genetic affinity correlates with linguistic affinity is controversial and a weak geographical one at best. First approach: Counter-relevance example: www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=A+collaborative+study+of+the+EDNAP+group+regarding&btnG=Google+SearchIn another study that surveyed the frequency of 11 Y-chromosome haplotypes across Europe it was noticed that: However, the study compares its own results with most other European Haplotype studies to include a total of 17 populations. This was done through a principal component analysis (which collapses many variable among study groups ordination.okstate.edu/PCA.htm). In figure 2, the clustering of the above populations that have an over-representation or lack the R1b, coincides with the frequency clustering of the other 11 haplotypes. Ergo, R1b might be a significant contributor to general haplotype differences. However upon closer inspection, Greece flattens out with Denmark [one of the countries with a high R1b haplotype prevalence!]. From this I can either conclude that Greece also has a high R1b prevalence and/or that R1b, though frequent it does not significantly contribute to the uniqueness of the SNP profile of Denmark and Greece. The second is more likely to be true (probably tested already). This was not at all addressed in the study about Albania. Hence the higher then average R1b incidence in Albanians has no contextual relevance. It can certainly NOT establish provenience as it is too simplistic. (what about mitocondric DNA SNPs?) And even if by speculation it were relevant to uniqueness, some might interpret this correlation in the opposite direction: www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=15162323
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Arlin
New Member
Posts: 44
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Post by Arlin on Mar 25, 2008 2:17:37 GMT -5
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Post by Arxileas on Mar 25, 2008 3:13:51 GMT -5
Never rely on genetic studies, simply because they cannot be an acurate indicator. Besides blood and ethnicity is not ralated, that it's self should be self evident.
Why people waste time on genetics when there is a 1000 year gap in Albania's history is beyond me, I mean we dont know for sure if Albania is the primitive home of the Albanians.
There are many doubts to Albanian being the primitive home of the Albanians, many pionts to consider this are;
The Adriatic coast may have not been part of the primitive home of the Albanians, because the maritime terminology of Albanian is not their own, but is borrowed from different languages.
Now why the need to borrow ? If it was their primitive home ?
Another indication against local Albanian origin is the insignificant number of ancient Greek loanwords in Albanian. If the primitive home of the Albanians had been Albania itself, then the Albanian language would have to have many more ancient Greek loanwords.
Most other Balkan nations do have some significant Greek loan words BUT not the Albanians ? . Considering half of the home of the Albanians was Ancient Greece, strange don’t you think ?
I'm not convinced too many un answered questions here. I doubt any reputable scholar would even have any answeres for us as of yet.
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Post by Arxileas on Mar 25, 2008 3:20:41 GMT -5
Further more. There is a big IF they are even related or are the direct decendence of the Illyrians. There is no evidence of this what's so ever.
One more piont to concider. There are recorded Slavic names pre-Albanian BUT no Albanian place names before the Slavic ones. Now don't you think this is strange ?
Anyways am not convinced thus far.
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Post by greek1234 on Mar 25, 2008 7:09:20 GMT -5
This topic has become a circus.... To atlantis- If you are going to agree with Cavalli-Sforza you are going to have to agree that the modern Greeks are the direct descendants of the ancient Greeks. To PrijesDardanian- We all know this person has a bias agenda. Its pathetic because this amateur quotes Steve Coon and Angel who believe the Greeks look exactly like there ancient ancestors.
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Post by atlantis on Mar 25, 2008 9:18:01 GMT -5
The Adriatic coast may have not been part of the primitive home of the Albanians, because the maritime terminology of Albanian is not their own, but is borrowed from different languages. Now why the need to borrow ? If it was their primitive home ? Another indication against local Albanian origin is the insignificant number of ancient Greek loanwords in Albanian. If the primitive home of the Albanians had been Albania itself, then the Albanian language would have to have many more ancient Greek loanwords. Most other Balkan nations do have some significant Greek loan words BUT not the Albanians ? . Considering half of the home of the Albanians was Ancient Greece, strange don’t you think ? I'm not convinced too many un answered questions here. I doubt any reputable scholar would even have any answeres for us as of yet. . www.mdevaan.nl/research/Blanchus.pdfTHIS IS STRONG EVIDENCE! www.mdevaan.nl/research/Blanchus.pdf--------- DICTIONARIVM LATINO EPIROTICVM Una Cum nonnullius usitatioribus loquendi formulis Romae, Typis Sac. Congr. de Propag. Fide. 1635 SVPERIORVM PERMISSV - A LATIN - EPIROTIC (encryp. in Ghegh/Tosk Albanian) Ab altera parte - Mbe tieteret ane (Me tjeter ane/Me ane tjeter) Abscondere - Me mbscefune (Me mbshefun/mshef) Absens -Largh (Larg) Absit -Chiofte Largh (Qofte Larg) Absque Manibus -Paa Duer (Pa Duer/Duar) Acies -Trimenia (Trimenia/Trimeria) A dextra - Mbete diaftet (Me te diathte) Aeger - I semute (I semute/I semure) Accede hoc - Eia chetu (Eja çetu/Eja ketu) Anima mea - Spijrti em (Shpirti em/Shpirti im) . . . . B LATIN - EPIROTE (enryp. standard Ghegh/Tosk Albnian) Baculus - Scop (Shkop) Bellator - Luftetaar (Luftetar) Bibere - Me pijm (Me pij/pi) Bonus dies - Emire dite (E mire dite/Dite e mire) Buccea boccone - Cafsciata (Kafshata) . . . . C LATIN - EPIROTE/Ghegh Albanian/Tosk Albanian Castellum - Chestiel/Keshtiell/Keshtielle Candela - Chirij/Çiri/Qiri Cantus - Canghe/Kange/Kenge Capere - Me mare/Me marre/Me marre Caput - Crüe/Krye/Krie Carne - Misc/Mish/Mish Carbo - ξenghijl/Thengjill/Thengjill Catena - Senzijr/Sinzhir/Zinxhir Cauda - Bist/Bisht/Bisht . . . . . D LATIN - EPIROTE/Ghegh Albanian/Tosk Albanian d*mnosus - Dametuer/Dametuer/Demtuar Dare - Meξane/Me dhane/dhene Decipere - Me ghegnüem/Me genjye/genjyer Densus - Scpess/Shpesh/Shpesh Desiderium - Descijr/Deshir/Deshire Deflagratio - Tediegune/Te djegune/Te djegur . . . . G LATIN - EPIROTE/Gheg Albanian/Tosk Albanian Gallina - Pulla/Pula/Pula Gallinaccus - Giel/Gjel/Gjel Gens - Gind/Xhind/Xhind Gibus - Inghermuem/I germuem/I germuar Graecia - Gerghia/(someone help me with Ghegh)/Gerqia Gratia - Hiri/Hiri/Hiri Gula - Grÿka/Gryka/Gryka . . . . L LATIN - EPIROTE/Ghegh/Tosk Labium - Buεe/Buze/Buse Labiolum - Buεeεe/Buseze/Buseze Lacryma - Lot/Lot/Lot Lana - Lese/Leshe/Leshe Latebra - Spella/Shpella/Shpella . . . . . ----------------- Anyway... I think you get the idea that Epirus has always been Albanian. Not only! But our old language resembled to the Ghegh of today... which proves my theory that Hellens and Illyrians are the same people: "Hellen" is said "Ielin" in native Hellenic language... and in Ghegh Albanian, "Illyrian" is said Ilin. Proprium Epiroticae gentis idioma, seu Albanesia lingua a Graeca, & Illyrica, seu Slauonica loquendi ratione plane diuersa est, licet inter utriusq........ In scribento tamen ijsdem omnino litterarum caracteribus utuntur Epirotae, siue Albanesij... ! Cheers people... and keep your head high! For we are the owners of the Balkans.
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Post by atlantis on Mar 25, 2008 10:29:52 GMT -5
no more sourches for a while...... Peace .... still Helen is one by Pelasgian kid .......
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Post by myzeqari on Mar 25, 2008 14:45:06 GMT -5
I just saw a video on you tube of Mike Ditka adjusting his nuts. Funny stuff. why am i not suprised
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Post by myzeqari on Mar 25, 2008 14:57:25 GMT -5
Why people waste time on genetics when there is a 1000 year gap in Albania's history is beyond me, I mean we dont know for sure if Albania is the primitive home of the Albanians. therein lies our dilemma, how do u convince someone who does not want to be convinced and has a preconcieved notion about the origin of all nations? there is no 1000 year gap! its a byzantine spell!!! we were simply faded into roman-hellenic prominency, how did the albanians show up one day with no documented account of their travels and assumed the illyrian identity, why would they simply adopt this identity and how come they simply dwelled without provoking the native illyrians and why is the no mention of a war btw invading albanians and the dwellers of illyria, moreover, how come the byzantine empire allowed these mysterious people to set up in their lands? these are basic questions which u can not answer.
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Post by panagiotopoulos on Mar 25, 2008 15:04:35 GMT -5
Why people waste time on genetics when there is a 1000 year gap in Albania's history is beyond me, I mean we dont know for sure if Albania is the primitive home of the Albanians. therein lies our dilemma, how do u convince someone who does not want to be convinced and has a preconcieved notion about the origin of all nations? there is no 1000 year gap! its a byzantine spell!!! we were simply faded into roman-hellenic prominency, how did the albanians show up one day with no documented account of their travels and assumed the illyrian identity, why would they simply adopt this identity and how come they simply dwelled without provoking the native illyrians and why is the no mention of a war btw invading albanians and the dwellers of illyria, moreover, how come the byzantine empire allowed these mysterious people to set up in their lands? these are basic questions which u can not answer. Well... if it was true what answers would you provide? Honestly. I mean the only reason we know where the Serbs are from is not because of their ethnic makeup but because of their language which is a Slavic dialect. All Slavs basically came from the same place. WE KNOW THEIR ORIGINS. It is a mystery that Albanians have no connection in their language to European languages and have no documented historical writings or mention for nearly a thousand years. For all we know, Albanians could have been a migrant people who settled in Albania adopted or brought the Albanian language with them and voila, today we have Albanians. Who knows? Nobody is in a position to answer these questions. The other thing that sets you apart, is your looks. You guys look way different then every country that surrounds you.
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Post by atlantis on Mar 25, 2008 15:18:11 GMT -5
I am Pelasgus, ruler of this land, Child of Paleichthon, whom the earth brought forth; And, rightly named from me, the race who reap This country's harvests are Pelasgian called. And o'er the wide and westward-stretching land, Through which the lucent wave of Strymon flows, I rule; Perrhaebia's land my boundary is Northward, and Pindus' further slopes, that watch Paeonia, and Dodona's mountain ridge. West, east, the limit of the washing seas Restrains my rule-the interspace is mine. But this whereon we stand is Apian land, Styled so of old from the great healer's name; For Apis, coming from Naupactus' shore Beyond the strait, child of Apollo's self And like him seer and healer, cleansed this land From man-devouring monsters, whoin the earth, Stained with pollution of old bloodshedding, Brought forth in malice, beasts of ravening jaws, A grisly throng of serpents manifold. And healings of their hurt, by knife and charm, Apis devised, unblamed of Argive men, And in their prayers found honour, for reward. -Lo, thou hast heard the tokens that I give: Speak now thy race, and tell a forthright tale; In sooth, this people loves not many word
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Post by myzeqari on Mar 25, 2008 15:23:33 GMT -5
well my point is, if this migration happened as it were, then it would have happened either BC or after the byzantine empire fell, could not have happened in btw, we know slavs moved in 7'th or 8'th century AD, if we had moved in late on we would have clashed 1) current dwellers, 2) slavs up north and 3) byzantine empire(as the then rulers), there is not a documented evidence of this, the very notion wuld be preposterous, what we know is that illyrians were defiant against the romans, fought many wars, were defeated and subsequently absorbed into the roman empire, there are even a few illyrian emperors, language of the time was indeed latin and greek as we know was a prevailing written denominator in the balcans, illyrian could not thrive, there was no need really, greek and latin were ready made and for the social elite which was schooled in abovementioned,
now, for an mass of people to sneak in undetected and go past the watchfull eyes of the roman occupiers it would have to be fairly small, and we know for these new foreigners to be able to assimilate the illyrians they would have to be at least 3 times the present illyrian population, but this can be ruled out as such a number of people wold have been noticed and caused confrontation.
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SuperAlbanian
Amicus
King of Gays
20%
CANARIS IS THE REAL KING OF GAYS! OH WAIT! HES THE QUEEN OF GAYS!!!!
Posts: 1,283
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Post by SuperAlbanian on Mar 25, 2008 18:09:38 GMT -5
Why is this topic still being discussed? I just dont understand... I thought we agreed that we're justa bunch of monkeys that speak monkeynese that come form Monkeyland....?
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Post by akosxxx on Mar 25, 2008 18:14:34 GMT -5
Oh yes , superalbanian is absolutely right...
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Post by Teuta1975 on Mar 25, 2008 23:22:24 GMT -5
...and I thought some antique historians wrote about their arrival... Good to hear that; some Slavs think they are Illyrian...but speak Slavic Who told you that??? Of course Albanian language has many connections to Indo-European languages You mean to tell me Albanian language doesn't belong to any family and it's a unique language...but so is Greek.... neither Neandertal man has any historical writings...but we never doubted his existence.... For all I know dear, not only Albanians, but Greeks and all Balkan population...what we're wondering is: when did it happen? Before or after what I call "the beginning of time" (read my post in Montenegro forum re: this issue) No. But we can always assume, can't we?
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