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Post by Novi Pazar on Jul 12, 2008 22:40:16 GMT -5
Lets start with this one:
"The Mussulmanised Serbs, known as Arnauts, are the bitterest foes of the Serb."
Lord H.Temperley
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jul 12, 2008 22:42:50 GMT -5
The Serb ethnic community in Albania is one of the world's most jeopardised national minorities as a consequence of the unconditional Albanisation carried out during the rule of Enver Hoxha and the stand of present Albanian authorities, whose aspirations towards Kosovo and Metohija and the creation of a Greater Albania are indisputable.
Metropolitan Amfilohije of Montenegro and the Coast said that several thousand Serbs in the Serbian Orthodox Church's Skadar Episcopate, which is situated in Albania, do not have a school, church or the right to use their mother tongue.
The Serb school in the village of Vraka, near Shkoder, was torn down in 1934 and has not been reconstructed since. Two Serbian Orthodox churches were torn down during Hoxha's rule and Serbian cemeteries were obliterated despite a large number of Serbs in the region.
Officially, ethnic Serbs still carry Albanian names and are of Albanian nationality, so that one can conclude that they have no national rights.
Human Rights Watch International
I thought l would add this in also just to spice things up, more will come later.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jul 12, 2008 22:45:32 GMT -5
More widespread conversion to Islam took place in the 17th and the first half of 18th centuries, when ethnic Albanians began to wield more influence on political events in these regions. Many Serbs accepted Islamization as a necessary evil, waiting for the moment when they could revert to the faith of their ancestors, but most of them never lived to see that day. The first few generations of Islamized Serbs preserved their language and observed their old customs (especially slava - the family patron saint day, and the Easter holiday).
But several generations later, owing to a strong ethnic Albanian environment, they gradually began adopting the Albanian dress to safety, and outside their narrow family circle they spoke the Albanian language. Thus came into being a special kind of social mimicry which enabled converts to survive.
Albanization began only when Islamized Serbs, who were void of national feeling, married girls from ethnic Albanian tribal community. For a long time Orthodox Serbs called their Albanized compatriots Arnautasi, until the memory of their Serbian origin waned completely, though old customs and legends about their ancestors were passed on from one generation to the next.
For a long time the Arnautasi felt neither like Turks nor ethnic Albanians, because their customs and traditions set them apart, and yet they did not feel like Serbs either, who considered Orthodoxy to be their prime national trait. Many Arnautasi retained their old surnames until the turn of the last century. In Drenica the Arnautasi bore such surnames as Dokic, Velic, Marusic, Zonic, Racic, Gecic, which unquestionably indicated their Serbian origin.
The situation was similar in Pec and its surroundings where many Islamized and Albanized Serbs carries typically Serbian surnames: Stepanovic, Bojkovic, Dekic, Lekic, Stojkovic, etc. The eastern parts of Kosovo and Metohia, with their compact Serbian settlements, were the last to undergo Islamization. The earliest Islamization in Upper Morava and Izmornik is pinpointed as taking place in the first decades of the 18th century, and the latest in 1870s.
Toponyms in many ethnic Albanian villages in Kosovo show that Serbs had lived there the preceding centuries, and in some places Orthodox cemeteries were shielded against desecrators by ethnic Albanians themselves, because they knew that the graves of their own ancestors lay there.
In the late 18th century, all the people of Gora, the mountain region near Prizren were converted to Islam. However they succeeded in preserving their language and avoiding Albanization. There were also cases of conversion of Serbs to Islam in the second half of 19th century, especially during the Crimean War, again to save their lives, honor and property, though far more pronounced at the time was the process of emigration, since families, sometimes even entire villages, fled to Serbia or Montenegro.
Fearing the renewed Serbian state, Kosovo (Albanian) pashas engaged in ruthless persecution in an effort to reduce number of Serbs living in their spacious holdings. A French travel writer was astounded by the utter anarchy and ferocity of the local pashas towards the Christians. Jashar-pasha Gjinolli of Prishtina was one of the worst, destroying several churches in Kosovo, seizing monastic lands and killing monks.
In just a few years of sweeping terror, he evicted more than seventy Serbian villages between Vucitrn and Gnjilane...dividing up the seized land among the local Islamized population and mountain folk that had settled there from northern Albanian.
The fertile plains of Kosovo became desolate meadows as the Malisor highlanders, unused to farming knew not to cultivate. Extensive anthropo-geographic research indicates that about 30% of the present-day ethnic Albanian population of Kosovo and Metohia is of Serbian origin.
F.C.H.L Pouqueville
French traveller and writer
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Post by Toskaliku on Jul 13, 2008 0:10:30 GMT -5
I dont think it would be a smart thing for Serbs to have any centralized organization in that northern part of the country. People up there dont tend to like Serbs or any Orthodox Slavs for that matter. Whether they are Catholic Albanians or Muslim Albanians.
Its for their best interest that they assimilate. Although I dont want Slavs assimilating.
This priest should focus on his own country. Albania is becoming more and more pure day by day. Poverty is weaning out those elements that are best able to leave(Serbs and Greeks) while retaining the Albs and the higher birthrates.
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jul 13, 2008 0:12:56 GMT -5
!!! Albs are fleeing as well at light speed man...
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Post by Toskaliku on Jul 13, 2008 0:15:39 GMT -5
Yea, but our birthrates will manage and in 20-30 years you will see the repatriation of hundreds of thousands of Albs, the same happened with Greeks. In fact, in Greece there are signs of this starting to happen, this came from a Thessaloníki University study I read a while back. In contrast, the Greeks and Serbs and other minorities are less likely to return because they can assimilate into their national country far better then Albs. Greeks of Albania have a higher chance of getting citizenship in Greece. Once they all get that, the Greek community, for instance, will be dead as we know it.
Its much the same for the Serb community or anyother. The Bulgarians in Albania, same thing.
Albania will come out of this poverty hole as 99% Alb instead of 95%.
And Albs are no longer fleeing, the emigration speed has significantly declined in the past years and will steadily lower as time goes on. From there it will start the reversal.
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Post by kapetan on Jul 13, 2008 0:35:42 GMT -5
I dont think it would be a smart thing for Serbs to have any centralized organization in that northern part of the country. People up there dont tend to like Serbs or any Orthodox Slavs for that matter. Whether they are Catholic Albanians or Muslim Albanians. Its for their best interest that they assimilate. Although I dont want Slavs assimilating. This priest should focus on his own country. Albania is becoming more and more pure day by day. Poverty is weaning out those elements that are best able to leave(Serbs and Greeks) while retaining the Albs and the higher birthrates. Lol you sound like a fuckin' Nazi supremist. Which is funny and ironic.
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Post by terroreign on Jul 13, 2008 1:38:12 GMT -5
This quote is a result of what anthropologists call "Arm-chair thinking", in which this fellow makes his conclusions without first-person research.
Basically Novi, you listen to the same people who once-upon-a-time believed that black people had smaller skulls then white people thus making them less intelligent...
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jul 13, 2008 22:00:45 GMT -5
To Serbs, Kosovo is hallowed ground. It is their Holy Land. Kosovo had been Serbian territory as early as in the Middle Ages. It was lost in a humiliating defeat to the invading Ottoman army in 1389. Following the Ottoman conquest, ethnic Albanians moved into Kosovo, thereby displacing the Serbs.
The racial composition of Kosovo changed, from majority Serbs to majority Albanians. Today, 600 years later, Serb nationalism has reared to reclaim Kosovo. It is said that the Serbs would no more think of yielding Kosovo to Albanians than Jews of handing over Jerusalem to the Palestinians.
Prime Minister Goh Chok Tong of Singapore
21 Debate in Parliament Wednesday, 5 May 1999, at 2.30 pm
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jul 13, 2008 22:02:40 GMT -5
For hundreds of years, the people of Serbia have considered the region of Kosovo to be the homeland of their history and culture. From the late 1300's until 1912 however, this area was ruled by the Ottoman Turks, an Islamic people who once controlled a vast empire. Over the course of Ottoman Turkish rule, many Serbs either left Kosovo or converted from Christianity to Islam. Also, the Albanian Muslim (a Muslim is someone who believes in Islam) population of the area grew, until the majority of Kosovo inhabitants were no longer Serb Christians.
Michael Ignatieff
Virtual War: Kosovo and Beyond. New York: Metropolitan Books, 2000
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jul 13, 2008 22:53:28 GMT -5
Namely, in spite of its relatively short duration, the Turkish-Tatar war of 1687-92 under Arap-pasha from Anatolia brought fatal consequences. The destruction of Visoki Decani monastery, the looting and devastation of villages caused a large and numerous conversion of Orthodox Serbs to Islam. This also happened to the entire tribe of the Krasnici whose Serbian, that is, old previous name was Krastenic and who from then on were completely Albanized. It is interesting to note that the German sources from the pen of Prof Hopf referred to by S Gopcevic also bring into question the origins of the Gegi, a north Albanian tribe, ascribing to it a Slav origin which, at least according to the testimony of these authors, is also reflected in the noticeable difference in relation to the south Albanian tribe, the Tosks This difference appears in language, dress, customs and, allegedly, also in physionomy
Passing through Kosovo and Metohia, S Gopcevic stayed awhile in Prizren Besides the statistical data which he gathered, he also pointed out the incredible rate of the Islamization of the Serbs Thus, in Prizren, for example, a town of 60,000 inhabitants, he establishes that there are 11,000 Christian Serbs but as many as 36,000 Islamized ones with the remaining population being Turks, Albanians, Tzintzars and Gypsies
He portrayed Djakovica as a place of 4,100 households of which all of 16 ! belonged to Christian Serbs, 450 belonged to Gypsies, 130 to Catholic Albanians and the rest to Islamicised Albanians, all of them Albanized S " who are among the greatest fanatics which, as is already well known, is always the case with renegades"
Of Pec he says there were 2,530 households of which 1,600 were Mohammedan, 700 Christian Serbs, 200 Catholic Albanians, 10 Turkish etc Very significant is his observation that the number of mosques in proportion to such a numerous Moslem population was negligible This fact well illustrates that Islam was a new phenomenon in Metohia at that time.
Finally, here are a few facts about Pristina which, he says, had 3,510 households, 350 belonging to Christian Serbs, 2,600 ! to Mohammedan Serbs, 260 to Turks, 70 to Jews, 70 to Albanians etc Other, small settlements have not been left out but we will interpret them within the framework of a general statistical table.
In concluding this chapter, it is important to mention that S Gopcevic, the author of the book cited did not begin his study tour and investigation because of the Albanian problem He was primarily concerned with Serbo-Bulgarian relations and the problem of the Albanians was, according to scientific practice, treated as an objectively existing element of the reality of the time which thereby only increases the reliability of his testimony
Hugo Roth
Kosovo Origins Pathfinder Press 1995
Toski you see the Albanian tribe of Krasniqi was perviously a serbian mob that become Albanianised. Similar had occurred with the Arnauts.
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Post by ILIRI I MADH on Jul 13, 2008 23:04:11 GMT -5
good, you just proved that the slavs during the middle ages assimilated some illyrian tribes, but not completely,mainly the krasniqi tribe!
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Post by kapetan on Jul 13, 2008 23:23:16 GMT -5
Lol there was no "Illyrians" in the middle ages.
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Post by vinjak on Jul 13, 2008 23:24:04 GMT -5
LMAO shhhhh Dont bust his bubble LOL
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Post by ILIRI I MADH on Jul 14, 2008 0:22:28 GMT -5
Lol there was no "Illyrians" in the middle ages. there was and there still are
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MiG
Amicus
Republika
Posts: 4,793
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Post by MiG on Jul 14, 2008 0:31:56 GMT -5
^ Is that right. Why don't you prove that there was Illyrians in those days. Give me a Map.
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Post by ILIRI I MADH on Jul 14, 2008 0:50:39 GMT -5
illyrians were ocuppied by the byzantine empire dumbo
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jul 14, 2008 1:43:58 GMT -5
"good, you just proved that the slavs during the middle ages assimilated some illyrian tribes, but not completely,mainly the krasniqi tribe!"
remember in most cases the suffix of ove, ova, iqi and ica are slavic and yes there are some exceptions that some albanians from kosovo have named themselves after a town like Drenica etc....
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jul 14, 2008 1:46:05 GMT -5
"illyrians were ocuppied by the byzantine empire dumbo"
then why aren't there many greek loan words in modern albanian, apparently serbo/croatian has more?
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jul 14, 2008 1:47:01 GMT -5
Novi Serbs were the dominant power of middle ages in the Balkans. In Epiros the majority of toponyms are Serbian. However no scientific serious research was ever done, due to the known balkanic reasons.
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