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Post by Novi Pazar on Jul 16, 2008 6:03:47 GMT -5
Albanians started to move back into Kosovo in considerable numbers in the 15th century when the Ottomans took sovereignty over the region in 1489. During this time the great majority of Albanians were still Christians, and Serbs and Albanians lived together in reasonable harmony.
Gradually Albanians and to a lesser extent Serbs became converted to Islam. Serb resistance to conversion was strengthened by activities of the Orthodox Church since Kosovo contained many seminaries and was the home of the Serbian Orthodox Church. In the late 17th century Serbs left Kosovo in large numbers as a result of military victories of the Ottoman Turks and Albanians.
This displacement of the Serb population is known in history as "the great migration". As a result, the region of Kosovo became underpopulated and, attracted by available fertile land, was resettled by Albanians moving eastward from the hills of Albania.
Richard Jensen
Albanians and Serbs in Kosovo: An Abbreviated History Colorado University Press 1996
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jul 16, 2008 6:04:49 GMT -5
First, we have no strong historical 'me'. We had five centuries under Turkish occupation, and at that time, we had a Turkish identity, not an Albanian identity, except for our language. We as Albanians didn’t have a real history during these five centuries. Our history was linked to the Turkish Empire. This is one of the reasons I could say that our nationalism started very late... Traditionally, the society was organized into clans, families, tribes. And our Christian law—the so-called “Canon of Lek Dukagjini”—was called by one of the popes the least Christian law in the world. It was firmly linked to the blood feud. And Albanians could defend only their own house, their own family, their own tribe, and they didn’t care about others.
Fatos Lubonja
famous Albanian dissident
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jul 16, 2008 6:06:40 GMT -5
The province is best known as Kosovo - this name has been the most widely used by maps and gazetteers within Serbia and abroad. The alternative spelling Kossovo was frequently used until the early 20th century and before that, Cassovo or Cassua, an Italianisation of the name.
The name Kosovo appears to have its roots in the Slavic word kos which means "blackbird". The root word is widely used as a toponym in Slavic countries and the historical German name for Kosovo Polje, Amselfeld, does indeed mean "field of the blackbird".
The name "Kosovo" is itself used in other Slavic countries, appearing in Belarus, Bosnia, Bulgaria, Croatia and Russia.
All places in the world whose names begin with "Kosove" (pronounced "ko-SO-vah") is the Albanian spelling for the province. Albanians tend to use "Kosova" exclusively in preference to the Serbian name, which many of them reject as a symbol of Serbian dominance. It is also occasionally spelled as Kosovë; this is due to the fact that in Albanian, adding the definite article to a noun changes the ending of the word.
Some Albanian researchers claim that the name is a Serbian form of an old Albanian placename meaning "high plain" - but this is not a widely accepted theory and would not explain the widespread distribution of the name across the Slav countries. The Albanian form is generally thought to be an Albanian version of an originally Slavic placename.
The Albanian-populated areas of the province and Albania itself tend to use "Kosova" exclusively. "Kosovo" is used, again almost exclusively, in the Serb-populated north of the province and in the rest of the former Yugoslavia. The international community tries to steer a middle path by referring formally to "Kosovo/Kosova." In practice, however, the Serbian variant is still the most frequently used outside of Kosovo while the Albanian variant is widely used by "internationals" within the province.
Encyclopedia Article
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Post by Duke John on Jul 16, 2008 6:55:20 GMT -5
I wouldn't be quoting Noel Malcolm, if l were you guys!. I wouldent be quoting Fatos Ljubonja and Kaplan Resulli-Burovic if i was you! thous scums are not albanian buy ethnicity they are your brothers bitter slavs who write their own stories.
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Jul 16, 2008 8:02:46 GMT -5
Let's see what say famous serbian historian Desimir Tošiæ, who said Kosova was stoled from serbs and historically belonged to Albanians Srbija nije na Kosovu, pa ne može ni da ga ne daje– Kosovo više nikad neæe biti u položaju u kojem je bilo 1999, ili 1945, ili 1918. godine, to svaki noramalan i svestan Srbin mora da zna. Danas, naime, nema nijedne teritorije na celom svetu na kojoj se vlada s tri odsto stanovništva. Mi ne možemo da ne damo Kosovo, možemo samo da molimo da nam daju Kosovo. Kosovo je u rukama UN-a! – istakao je u razgovoru za „Dnevnik“ istorièar i publicista Desimir Tošiæ. Ovaj intelektualac svedok je razlièitih epoha razvoja srpskog i jugoslovenskog društva, bio je zatoèenik nacistièkih logora, potom politièki begunac iz Srbije, urednik èasopisa “Naša reè”, èlan jugoslovenskog komiteta u Evropskom pokretu od 1959, osnivaè Demokratske alternative 1963, objavio je niz knjiga, eseja i èlanaka politièko-sociološke problematike. U zemlju se vratio 1990, bio je potpredsednik Demokratske stranke i savezni poslanik, a trenutno je u Politièkom savetu DS-a. Suprotno opštoj slici koja se gradi u ovdašnjoj javnosti, Tošiæ smatra da sadašnji položaj Srbije uopšte nije katastrofièan, bez obzira na probleme vezane za rešavanje pitanje statusa Kosova. On tvrdi da Srbija danas èak ima veæu naklonost meðunarodne zajednice nego proteklih godina, ali ne u „smislu naših želja kad je reè o teritoriji Kosova, veæ u pogledu postupka i procedure rešavanja tog pitanja“. – Sad sve zavisi od nas: da li æemo pregovarati, ili æemo grditi. Ako æemo, kao što to èine mnogi naši mediji i politièari, voditi antiamerièku kampanju, ili kampanju protiv pregovora, onda æe biti katastrofa. Ali, ako budemo postupali kao pregovaraèi, a to znaèi ako pokažemo spremnost na komprimise, onda pozitivni rezultati neæe izostati – ukazuje on, navodeæi da su pozitivne poslednje poruke savetnika premijera Vladete Jankoviæa da æe Beograd prihvati svako rešenje za Kosovo koje iskljuèuje moguænost formiranja vojske Kosova i stolice u UN, što bi po Tošiæu mogla biti „formula koja vodi ka rešenju“. Kako bi se u kontekstu predstojeæih pregovora na poziciju Srbije mogla odraziti nova rezolucija o Kosovu, koja nagovešatava zaoštravanje odnosa s meðunarodnom zajednicom? – Mi mnogo izgledamo smešni u svetu s tim platformama i rezolucijama o Kosovu. To su takve detinjarije, kao i sluèaj s preambulom novog Ustava kojom se Kosovo definiše kao neotuðivi deo Srbije. Ma, jeste li primetili kako je cela Evropa drhtala od straha kad se pojavila ta preambula?! Sad opet uterujemo strah meðunarodnoj zajednici novim rezolucijama. Ako ne možete da ratujete, šta æe vam rezolucije? Mil oševiæ je to radio, ali on je hteo da ratuje, što ima neku surovu logiku. A šta sad mi da radimo s novom rezolucijom, da poremetimo odnose u meðunarodnoj zajednici? Naši politièari i štampa sad potpaljuju sukob izmeðu Amerike i Rusije. Ma, to su takve detinjarije! Žalosno je, meðutim, što iza svega stoje ljudi koji su doktori pravnih nauka, profesori univerziteta... i zato nas niko iz sveta ne uzima ozbiljno. Uostalom, mi ne možemo da ratujemo za Kosovo jer nemamo Pavkoviæa. Samo Pavkoviæ je bio veliki heroj koji je bio sposoban da se ženi više puta, da uzme 150.000 glasova na predsednièkim izborima, ali i genijalni vojnièki voð za bežanje. A mi sad više nemamo odakle ni da bežimo, pošto više i nismo na Kosovu. Da li je Srbija spremna da se suoèi s gubitkom Kosova? – Ako uzmete u obzir da su stranke koje vode aktuelnu vladu, okupljene u tzv. narodnjaèkom bloku, ostvarile izuzetno loš izborni rezultatat – to pokazuje da su upotreba Kosova u izbornoj kampanji i oèekivanje da æe se na tom pitanju dobiti glasovi, bili vrlo pogrešna raèunica. Osim toga, poslednje ankete javnog mnjenja pokazuju da kosovsko pitanje za graðane Srbije nije na vrhu prioriteta, veæ je ono tek na èetvrtom mestu, posle niza ekonomskih pitanja koja muèe graðane, kao što su standard, nezaposlenost... To znaèi da graðani Srbije realnije sagledavaju taj problem jer uviðaju da su kljuèni interesi Srbije danas zaštita srpskog stanovništva na Kosovu, zaštita crkvene imovine, povraæaj imovine... Dok naše politièke elite oèigledno ne razumeju meðunarodnu politiku, ni šta su to velike sile, ali slabo poznaje i istoriju Rusije i naše odnose sa njom. Nema više kolaèa za Koštunicu Da li je uopšte moguæe postiæi dogovor o novoj vladi Srbije, ili su izvesniji novi izbori? – Nadao sam se da æe ovi izbori ipak napraviti veæi pomak, ali i pored uspeha DS-a, poražavajuæe je što su radikali svuda porasli. Pogotovo što uvek može da nas iznenadi kombinacija Koštunica–Nikoliæ, jer je aktuelni premijer izuzetno neiskren. Osnovna istorijska ideja predsednika tzv. tehnièke vlade Vojislava Koštunice je uništiti DS ili ga prevesti na svoju stranu. To je njegova prva ideja, pre Kosova i pre Srbije. Meðutim, zajedno sa Veljom Iliæem, Koštunièina stranka doživela je izborni poraz. I time je pala u vodu ideja o nekoj domaæinskoj Srbiji, o vladi u kojoj æe ministri sedeti sa šajkaèama i u opancima... – što bi, valjda, trebalo da impresionira Evropu koja ne može da živi bez domaæinske Srbije, sa sve Guèom, naravno... Ipak, novi izbori bi bili katastrofa i najlogiènije bi bilo da Koštunica popusti. Izgubio je na izborima, nema nikakvog ugleda u svetu, a i naši biraèi znaju ko je on. Zato bi njegovo insistiranje na još jednom premijerskom mandatu bilo strašna greška. Uopšte je takvo ponašanje karakteristièno za deèju psihologiju, jer samo deca, kad dobiju kolaè, traže i drugi, i treæi... i bilo bi strašno da se ne formira vlada zato što jedan èovek hoæe pa hoæe da bude premijer. DS se do sad ponašao tolerantno iako na pregovore kod predsednika Srbije ni radikali ni DSS nisu poslali šefa stranke. Prvi su poslali glumicu za koju veæina biraèkog tela nije ni znala, a DSS je posalao ministra sile. Pa, ko iz sveta želi da saraðuje s takvim mentalitetom i s takvom politièkom kulturom? Kad je Kosovo za Srbiju zapravo izgubljeno, oduzimanjem autonomije Kosova, bombardovanjem NATO-a i povlaèenjem Vojske SRJ, ili...? – Mi smo se u prošla dva veka razvijali na tradicionalnoj istorijskoj osnovi, na mitu o Kosovskom boju, koji jesmo dali Evropi, ali smo tu jednu jedinu bitku protiv Turaka izgubili. Ali to ovde niko ne pominje. Meðutim, svetski trend koji je nastao posle Drugog svetskog rata podrazumeva išèezavanje takvih tradiconalistièkih pogleda na istoriju koja se temelji na okupiranju teritorija na osnovu nekih istorijskih seæanja. U težištu interesovanja našli su se ljudska prava i procesi udruživanja. Laž je to što je rekao predsednik Vlade Vojislav Koštunica da je Kosovo uvek bilo sa Srbijom! Laž je i to što je reka da se svaki Srbin raða s Kosovom! Kosovo je, zapravo, problem koji mi nismo videli, još od 1912. godine kad smo ušli na Kosovo u borbi protiv Turaka, jer je i tad tamo bilo veoma malo Srba. Možda bi sve bilo drugaèije da je veæ od 1918. godine poèela emancipacija stanovništva Kosova. Umesto toga, služili smo se kuknjavom, prozivkama, pretnjama, a slièan problem bio je i s Makedoncima, kojima smo naredili da moraju da se prezivaju na -iæ! To je potpuno ludilo! I zato nije bilo rešenja za Kosovo.
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Jul 16, 2008 8:09:11 GMT -5
This was happening since 1328 in the regions of Diabolis, Kolonea and Ohri, where J.Kantakuzen speaks of the meeting of the Byzantine Emperor Andronicus III with the "nomadic Albanians" of Central Macedonia. (12) No doubt, the Serbian rule was heavy on the Albanian subjects. Allowing for the obvious propaganda aims of the author, there is certainly some truth in what Guillaume D'Adam propagandist of the crusade, writes in 1332,
We must add that the Byzantine authors are sensitive about the unity of the people from Albania to Macedonia; the historian Laonikos Chalkokondylis of the 15th century, after stressing that the Albanians are quite different from the Serbs and the Bosnians, (14) says that no other people resembles the Macedonians more than the Albanians.
In 1420 he granted Ragusa the trade privilege from "his coastal lands up to Prizren" (19) for trade. This new Albanian state brought about the development of a class of merchants from a population which had been discouraged from this pursuit. The archives of Ragusa (Dubrovnik) show that a number of Albanian merchants of Ragusa voluntarily stayed in Kosova. "his is proved by a letter which the Republic of Ragusa sent Marco de Tani in Prishtina, (20) in March 1428, after the Kastriotis had submitted to the Turks, and again in 1448 in the same town we find the other Albanian merchant Kimo Mati de Tani. (21)
ALAIN DUCELLIER (Toulouse, France)
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libofsha
Amicus
socially inept village idiot who is having a meltdown daily
Posts: 611
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Post by libofsha on Jul 16, 2008 8:17:55 GMT -5
daaaaaaaaaamn! PrijesDardanian is singlehandidly destroying these fools!!
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Jul 16, 2008 8:20:46 GMT -5
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
20%
Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jul 16, 2008 8:37:19 GMT -5
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh That was the times... lol!
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
20%
Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jul 16, 2008 8:38:51 GMT -5
daaaaaaaaaamn! PrijesDardanian is singlehandidly destroying these fools!! Dardana claims i am from Minor Asia, so i think Dardanian has destroyed his own mental health. lol
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
20%
Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jul 16, 2008 8:46:14 GMT -5
at the same time.... USA and France were supporting Serbia: Serb parade in Paris
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Jul 16, 2008 8:47:39 GMT -5
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh That was the times... lol! I blame my ancestros who liberatet a land later who occupied gypso-syrians like your family who established in Peleponesse, it is reason why you dont understand War because always you were slaves and never sensation spill of blood, nomad slave.
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
20%
Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jul 16, 2008 9:04:45 GMT -5
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh That was the times... lol! I blame my ancestros who liberatet a land later who occupied gypso-syrians like your family who established in Peleponesse, it is reason why you dont understand War because always you were slaves and never sensation spill of blood, nomad slave. My dear PrijeshDardanian, you failed in every single word you wrote. Did you take the time off i was recommending you the other day? P.S. What war are you talking about? WWI? WWII? cause in both you were either absent or just watching.
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Jul 16, 2008 9:11:19 GMT -5
I blame my ancestros who liberatet a land later who occupied gypso-syrians like your family who established in Peleponesse, it is reason why you dont understand War because always you were slaves and never sensation spill of blood, nomad slave. My dear PrijeshDardanian, you failed in every single word you wrote. Did you take the time off i was recommending you the other day? P.S. What war are you talking about? WWI? WWII? cause in both you were either absent or just watching. in time when your ancestros were living like slaves (out from Greece), you know very well what i am talking.
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
20%
Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Jul 16, 2008 9:39:42 GMT -5
"you know very well what i am talking." no i dont know. I cant become Minor Asian just because an illiterate albie dreams so. And even if i was, what would be the difference? Your chams allied with the germans, so we kicked their ugly homosexual butts (i mean that) out of greece. simple. Proud my Grandpa fought for Zervas Things are much more complicated than your little tender albanian mind can digest.
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libofsha
Amicus
socially inept village idiot who is having a meltdown daily
Posts: 611
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Post by libofsha on Jul 16, 2008 10:37:40 GMT -5
daaaaaaaaaamn! PrijesDardanian is singlehandidly destroying these fools!! Dardana claims i am from Minor Asia, so i think Dardanian has destroyed his own mental health. lol YOU are from minor asia...and also confused, i thought being greek was bad enough, but you want to be a serb as well?
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Post by fannoli on Jul 16, 2008 12:37:02 GMT -5
^ Libofsha let him be he sees himself as a German when he looks in the mirror. This guy is confused. I feel bad for the Serbs. There are enough mixed dark-looking Serbs, whats one more Pyrros right?
He dreams of a world dominated by curry Indians, Russians and Chinamen. Where to start to list how many problems all this countries have. Russians have a former KGB communist in power where freedom of speech is surpressed. How many dead journalists dead so far under 'mysterious circumstances"? Then the RUssian secret service staged killing of their own people blamed under the much powerless Chechens. It will be a long time before Russia gets back on their feet. This is not anymore a bipolar world. Thats for sure.
Indians becoming world power is like saying Africans will become world power. Most of India is just dirt poor. Just because cheap labour is being transferred there by the Western companies does not mean anything. It means Indians will be used as telemarketers and work for low wages for Western companies. China[similar to India] is probably the only potential candidate. But China success is also linked to their relations with the West.
In conclusion Western hegemony is here to stay for a very very long time. The only way it can be destroyed if the West divides among itself. At this moment that does not seem very realistic.
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Post by kapetan on Jul 16, 2008 15:19:41 GMT -5
....once again, what's wrong with being "dark"?
Is this a Nazi forum?
Plenty of "dark" Albanians and Serbs to go around both. Same with the rest of us.
And?
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Post by Novus Dis on Jul 16, 2008 20:04:33 GMT -5
Plenty of "dark" Albanians and Serbs to go around both. Same with the rest of us. So what are you? A Croat? "Say Hungarian Reports."
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jul 16, 2008 21:40:06 GMT -5
I see the ALbs are posting propaganda articles etc....l'm not even going to bother replying, l will keep adding more historical quotes about kosovo. What made me laugh was prijes's post that showed a map at the time of Dushan's empire, a region called the principality of Albania Anyway, here's another kosovo quote: The Albanian villages are much better, much richer than the Serbian ones. The Serbs, even the rich ones, don't build fine houses in villages where there are Albanians. If a Serb has a two-story house he refrains from painting it so that it shan't look better than the Albanian houses. Leon Trotsky The Balkan Wars Pathfinder Press 1995
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