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Post by insomniac on Feb 5, 2009 16:54:23 GMT -5
You take pride in ancestral achievements if you have great ancestors & their past glory inspires you to live it out in the present
That's the same as taking credit for someone else's work. Same as being proud of Eistein. Might as well call ourselves Einsteinites. Why do you need your ancestors to motivate you? Are you that sad of a human being that you dont find the power in individual advancement?
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Post by insomniac on Feb 5, 2009 16:56:27 GMT -5
one cannot or should not be proud of one's parents or children, pride should be rigorously restricted to the individuals' own achievements if you reason like this.
When you are proud of your children you really are proud of your achievement that you raised a good human being. It still comes back to self.
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Post by Alb_Korcar on Feb 5, 2009 16:57:52 GMT -5
Ore i pagjume lol po nga cvend i Shqiperise te kemi?
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Feb 5, 2009 16:58:00 GMT -5
That is the difference between us. I do not see why one of these must inevitably exclude the other? Can a person not be ambitious on a personal level, being proud of one's own achievements in life, and at the same time display a sense of pride in belonging to a unique nation?
And your paralell to Einstein is invalid. He is one person. If we speak in the context of nations, then we cannot speak of "taking credit", because in this body known as the nation, we partake as well, just by calling ourselves Albanians, speaking Albanian, preserving the traditions passed down to us by our parents, who in turn got it from their parents, and so forth.
PS Are you by any chance the reincarnation of PartialFractions, a former member in these boards?
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Post by meltdown711 on Feb 5, 2009 17:05:49 GMT -5
Tell me the difference between genetical and cultural Europeanness. This example shows how different you albanians are from other European people. A Greek would never say that he doesnt find his culture to be European. Not a single one. The same goes for every other European. You Albanians on the other hand have such people...thats what we can say right now, its a fact. And he refered to all albanians, not only the muslims. He talked representatively, not refered on himself only. Thats the great difference...and its suspicious. Really? I can honestly say from personal experience that maybe 1/4 of the Greeks I have met with don't define with Europeans in the western sense. And in fact many of these are among the most well educated Greeks I have met...
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Post by insomniac on Feb 5, 2009 17:09:11 GMT -5
a sense of pride in belonging to a unique nation?
But when there was no nation? being proud of a tribe?
These are outdated notions that will soon lose value in a globalized world. Im proud to be from Earth and the tradition that human beings left us. Therefore i call myself an Earthnite. Being an Earthnite, i hate Aliens and will fight them for as long as my homo sapiens ancestors tell me.
It's all the same to me, Donnie. When you see the world from my POV, you start appreciating other human beings more. It also makes you a more logical person.
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Post by kapetan on Feb 5, 2009 17:14:08 GMT -5
Pride in a nation is a stupid thing and people will realize that sooner or later. When you are proud Serbian or proud Albanian? What exactly is that? Pride of your ancestors achievements? Shouldn't you take pride in things you individually have done? Like working hard? studying hard? being a good person? If you are dying would you refuse help from somebody just because he is Albanian? Is a bad Serbian better than a good Albanian. Ask these questions to yourself people and you will realize gullible being proud of a nation is. Maybe you feel more like George Carlin and it shouldn't be "proud to be Irish" but "Happy to be Irish!" lolz
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Post by Alb_Korcar on Feb 5, 2009 17:19:49 GMT -5
INSOMNIAC WHAT PART OF ALBANIA R U FROM? LOL
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Feb 5, 2009 17:24:32 GMT -5
a sense of pride in belonging to a unique nation?But when there was no nation? being proud of a tribe? These are outdated notions that will soon lose value in a globalized world. Im proud to be from Earth and the tradition that human beings left us. Therefore i call myself an Earthnite. Being an Earthnite, i hate Aliens and will fight them for as long as my homo sapiens ancestors tell me. It's all the same to me, Donnie. When you see the world from my POV, you start appreciating other human beings more. It also makes you a more logical person. Well, everything hasn't existed since the dawn of time. Nations not existing throughout human history do not make my points less valid, because frankly, humans too did not exist throughout Earth's history ... and yet we're as real as the reptiles who descend from the old dinosaurs. And perhaps these are "outdated" notions in your mind, but some of us are a little "conservative" in lack of less "outdated" terms, in regards to issues like these. And why stop at Earthlings? Call yourself a Universarian so you don't offend the aliens either. But, while you do that, don't underestimate other people just because of their views. Me being proud of myself, my heritage and nation does not disable me from appreciating other human beings as well. But if you're asking me to think of other nations in the exact same way and with the same love as my own, I cannot. It's like asking me to love all humans with the same affection and amount as my own family members. Utopistic and unrealistic. But still doesn't deprive me of my ability to respect and appreciate other human beings ... or aliens for that matter.
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Post by insomniac on Feb 5, 2009 17:33:13 GMT -5
And why stop at Earthlings? Call yourself a Universarian so you don't offend the aliens either.
Exactly. Why stop at Universarian, why not be an individual?
It's like asking me to love all humans with the same affection and amount as my own family members. Utopistic and unrealistic
Im asking you to love human beings on the basis of good values not on the basis of their ethnicity or nation. That's all.
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Post by Kastorianos on Feb 5, 2009 17:35:11 GMT -5
yes no. They were living in the geographical region Asia. But that doesnt make them belonging to the asian culturearea. First of all they spoke an out and out European language...that was their mother tongue. My origins make me European and Im proud of it. And you shouldnt talk of prejudice... I dont understand why you take the Germans or the Scandinavians as europeanness standard. I believe we are European of course we are and we are not similar to Turks in no way, they are at best like us and that goes only for the ones that are living in those regions that were Greek peopled once. Have you ever seen Turks from Ankara oder deeper Anatolia, the original Turks? I cant see any similarity between them and my people. you are so hypocritical. let me puke wait a second. You didnt understand that, too. I wanted to tease highduke with that and nothing else. I know.
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Post by meltdown711 on Feb 5, 2009 17:37:11 GMT -5
Thats because of the Persian and Arab influence
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Feb 5, 2009 17:42:29 GMT -5
Kastorianos
You're a broken record with the same arguments. I give up on you.
Insomniac
Why not be an individual who does not restrict his sense of pride and love to himself, but extends it to include family and beyond?
Who says I base my love of people on their ethnicity? Again you're not paying attention. There are non-Albanians I love because of their personalities, and likewise, there are some Albanians whom I've met and disliked for certain reasons. But, for reasons made clear, I will in first response feel a closer kinship with an Albanian than I will with a New Zealander. I cannot change that, not even for political correctness' sake.
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Post by insomniac on Feb 5, 2009 17:45:19 GMT -5
But if you're asking me to think of other nations in the exact same way and with the same love as my own, I cannot.
Why not?
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Feb 5, 2009 17:48:55 GMT -5
Because that is how I feel, and unless you want me to lie for your sake that I have converted to your philosophy within minutes, I can safely say that this will not change. The reasons are probably multiple, and the same ones which made me the person I am; upbringing, environment, education etc. Long and complicated list which I don't have the energy to dwelve into and explain.
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Post by insomniac on Feb 5, 2009 18:01:46 GMT -5
I may not change you for now but I can influence you. We can't forever be mental slaves. We should start thinking logically and most important consistently.
But i know the reasons which you dont really have to explain. Because I reacted the same as you did. "What, that's my purpose in life.".
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Feb 5, 2009 18:05:01 GMT -5
And you're not the one who is the mental slave of some ideology?
For someone who claims to be a spokesperson of freedom, you surely restrict yourself alot. Why have one purpose in life? Why can't you work for yourself and at the same time for your people.
PS Goodnight!
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Post by insomniac on Feb 5, 2009 18:07:16 GMT -5
There is no such thing as "my people". I will continue to feel pride of my own achievements --- not of Skanderbegs, Achilles, Albania's, Hellenic or whatever notion you want to insert. That said, I also dont have to feel ashamed from those notions.
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highduke
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Post by highduke on Feb 5, 2009 18:52:05 GMT -5
This pizda Insomniac reaks of Kane. say something in alb, prove your alb
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Feb 5, 2009 20:54:45 GMT -5
I once said that Albanians appeared around 1100 ad in the Balkans ..since you cannot find any history on them before that.... right about the same time the Seljuk Turks came to be... I have been known to change my views on that from time to time... I know one thing for sure Rex is not a Seljuk. ;D you newgreeks are like fyroms a fake nation, Greeks are people that never mentioned before 1800 ad!, 70% of them camed after 1916 from Asia Minor and Syria and today claim ro be greek and even native...nah Before arrival of newgreeks in Greece...Albanians, Catalans and Slavs comanded Modern Greece. Seljuk Turks they at least have own culture and their history, but what is your history expect claim before 2000 years (stolen history of ancient greeks)
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