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Post by radovic on Nov 28, 2008 22:38:00 GMT -5
Can you give some citations from Hasani so I can have some context behind the statement? Such as why exactly does he believe them to be of Serbian origin? In light of the fact that so many Albanians in yugoslavia were handed Yugoslav names(Ivanaj --> Ivanovic), how in the world did these Slavic people escape notice and somehow become Albanianized? I know very well how 'Balkan scholarship' is created and politically influenced. Any proof of this, this is the first time I've ehard of this.
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Post by radovic on Nov 28, 2008 22:46:30 GMT -5
No we don't have a tradition of Grabni, & Albanians don't have the tradition of Djurdjevdan... Also, the girls in my signature aren't Gorani's (they're Serbs) & I don't see the connection with the topic... I think you must have thought they are a separate posting of Gorani's. LOL shot in the foot. You don't have grabni, but all gorani's do, including those in dragash, kosova, and the mountaineers of montenegro. The whole eastern world has may 1st holiday, including Albania, but the rest of the world calls it 'int'l worker's day' some call it easter as this holiday changes and others call it what you say.. lolol As for those girls, they are the most serbicized Albanians I've ever seen.They should have their blood checked to make sure. Grabni/International workers day has nothing to do with culture. It is a holiday started by leftist unions in Chicago. It has nothing to do with culture, and since you called it grabni and not may day Arsenije assumed you were talking of some cultural festivity/day like the Slava is. By your logic the chinese must be Albanians as they celebrate May Day.
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Post by radovic on Nov 28, 2008 22:53:15 GMT -5
Can you give some citations from Hasani so I can have some context behind the statement? Such as why exactly does he believe them to be of Serbian origin? In light of the fact that so many Albanians in yugoslavia were handed Yugoslav names(Ivanaj --> Ivanovic), how in the world did these Slavic people escape notice and somehow become Albanianized? I know very well how 'Balkan scholarship' is created and politically influenced. Hasani has contributed to such claims on the rastko.org.yu website. Not only that but during the 90s when Arkan would campaign to get the votes of Kosovo Serbs he would always come to Gora where he would hold some public event with Hasani.
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Post by raynon on Nov 28, 2008 23:03:09 GMT -5
WTF are you talking about? Those girls in your pic all have the high Albanian forehead and cheekbones. Also there are genetic studies of Albanian highlanders...in the north, east and west...and those studies proved that Albanians/goranis in the eastern mountains have the same alleles with the Albanians of western Malsori Albanians. And they're not even from the same religious groups. So, do you serbs have a tradition of "GRABNI"? lol Post these genetic studies you speak off? The Mountains of Giants. A Racial and Cultural Study of the North Albanian Ghegs by Carleton S. Coon Over 20 years ago, Coon went to the highlands of northern Albania to collect material for a detailed decription of the Dinaric racial type, in an attempt to explain its origin. To this end he took full measurements and observations on almost 1100 Highland Gheg males, equally divided between the 10 mountain tribes, and with as even subtribal and village representation as possible. A report was completed in 1932, but could not then be published. The present report, started in 1946, is a thorough recasting and modernizing of the original. Mountains of Giants is outstanding on two counts: First, Coon has skillfully woven pertinent features of the recent culture, such as technology, marriage customs and feuding complex into the historical background and the environment of the Mountain Ghegs to explain why they form a closed genetic population. This same closely woven fabric also reveals that within Mountain Gheg territory there are local enclaves of people living in isolated valleys, marrying within restricted channels and sustaining themselves on the local products of differing soils. In this way, Mountain Ghegs are shown to be isolated from the rest of the world, and in large part from each other. The second outstanding feature of Mountains of Giants is Coon's careful analysis of his measurements and indices in terms of the impact of environmental and other factors upon them. Of these factors, age-changes, dental occlusion, nutrition, and cradling have helped form the Gheg phenotype. Thus for example, facial dimensions and nasal convexity increase with age; bite and dental wear act together to change facial morphology; the largest-bodied Ghegs live in the limestone, the smallest- bodied ones in the largely sandstone areas; and the flattened occiput so characteristic of Dinarics is due largely to cradle-board pressure. Thus as Coon states (p. 100) "The typical Dinaric has been shown to be partly the product of age and artifice. His gaunt face and hawklike nose come to him usually in middle age; his broad, occipitally flattened head is largely the result of cradling. His lean body is to a large extent that of a man who has worked hard and eaten little." Stripped of these non- genetic features, Mountain Ghegs would appear to be "... of the same basic genetic stock, disseminated widely in the Iron Age, from which most northern and western European peoples came" (p. 100). Coon is my first source, there are int'l genetic studies completed and it's coming next.
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Post by radovic on Nov 28, 2008 23:06:39 GMT -5
Post these genetic studies you speak off? The Mountains of Giants. A Racial and Cultural Study of the North Albanian Ghegs by Carleton S. Coon Over 20 years ago, Coon went to the highlands of northern Albania to collect material for a detailed decription of the Dinaric racial type, in an attempt to explain its origin. To this end he took full measurements and observations on almost 1100 Highland Gheg males, equally divided between the 10 mountain tribes, and with as even subtribal and village representation as possible. A report was completed in 1932, but could not then be published. The present report, started in 1946, is a thorough recasting and modernizing of the original. Mountains of Giants is outstanding on two counts: First, Coon has skillfully woven pertinent features of the recent culture, such as technology, marriage customs and feuding complex into the historical background and the environment of the Mountain Ghegs to explain why they form a closed genetic population. This same closely woven fabric also reveals that within Mountain Gheg territory there are local enclaves of people living in isolated valleys, marrying within restricted channels and sustaining themselves on the local products of differing soils. In this way, Mountain Ghegs are shown to be isolated from the rest of the world, and in large part from each other. The second outstanding feature of Mountains of Giants is Coon's careful analysis of his measurements and indices in terms of the impact of environmental and other factors upon them. Of these factors, age-changes, dental occlusion, nutrition, and cradling have helped form the Gheg phenotype. Thus for example, facial dimensions and nasal convexity increase with age; bite and dental wear act together to change facial morphology; the largest-bodied Ghegs live in the limestone, the smallest- bodied ones in the largely sandstone areas; and the flattened occiput so characteristic of Dinarics is due largely to cradle-board pressure. Thus as Coon states (p. 100) "The typical Dinaric has been shown to be partly the product of age and artifice. His gaunt face and hawklike nose come to him usually in middle age; his broad, occipitally flattened head is largely the result of cradling. His lean body is to a large extent that of a man who has worked hard and eaten little." Stripped of these non- genetic features, Mountain Ghegs would appear to be "... of the same basic genetic stock, disseminated widely in the Iron Age, from which most northern and western European peoples came" (p. 100). Coon is my first source, there are int'l genetic studies completed and it's coming next. This deals with Ghegs. Not Gorani. The Gorani are a distinct population from the Albanians and Slavs in Kosovo. This report doesn't deal with the Gorani at all. Not only that but Coons views have fallen into disfavour within the anthropogolic community. You are basically engaging in the same kind of crap highduke does.
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Post by raynon on Nov 29, 2008 1:18:15 GMT -5
[ This deals with Ghegs. Not Gorani. The Gorani are a distinct population from the Albanians and Slavs in Kosovo. . What are you, a jackazz or something? WTF you think Gorani means or even Ghegs? Ghegs are the northern mountaineers, wtf does gorani mean? All it states is that the genetic variations between all the mountain Ghegs are extremely low, not even 2%. It means that gorani are genetically the same as Gheg Albanian mountaineers, you doofus russian gypsy. He took mitochondrial samples from 1100 Highland Gheg males equally divided between the 10 mountain tribes, and with as even subtribal and village representation as possible. Highland Ghegs are goranis too...they are part of this sample he took and he proved alone that Goranis and ghegs are from the same genetic stock of Mountain Giants, you dumbas. And if you have proof that this study alone was disproved, post it here. I did the job of posting proof of gorani and gheg genetic connections, you say this study was disproved, post those results. And, don't be posting some bulls**t belgrade propaganda study done by your rankovic or cubrilovic genocidal freaks.
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Post by radovic on Nov 29, 2008 23:33:01 GMT -5
[ This deals with Ghegs. Not Gorani. The Gorani are a distinct population from the Albanians and Slavs in Kosovo. . What are you, a jackazz or something? WTF you think Gorani means or even Ghegs? Ghegs are the northern mountaineers, wtf does gorani mean? All it states is that the genetic variations between all the mountain Ghegs are extremely low, not even 2%. It means that gorani are genetically the same as Gheg Albanian mountaineers, you doofus russian gypsy. He took mitochondrial samples from 1100 Highland Gheg males equally divided between the 10 mountain tribes, and with as even subtribal and village representation as possible. Highland Ghegs are goranis too...they are part of this sample he took and he proved alone that Goranis and ghegs are from the same genetic stock of Mountain Giants, you dumbas. And if you have proof that this study alone was disproved, post it here. I did the job of posting proof of gorani and gheg genetic connections, you say this study was disproved, post those results. And, don't be posting some bulls**t belgrade propaganda study done by your rankovic or cubrilovic genocidal freaks. Highland doesn't mean Gorani. Highland refers to anyone living in a highland area. Hence anyone in norhtern Albania. They should have specifically mentioned which area of moubntainous northern Albania.
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Post by raynon on Nov 30, 2008 0:02:19 GMT -5
[ Highland doesn't mean Gorani. Highland refers to anyone living in a highland area. Hence anyone in norhtern Albania. They should have specifically mentioned which area of moubntainous northern Albania. Look, we'll go in circles about this, Goran is the highlands, which include ppl who call themselves such name. If you have any links disproving Coon's work specifically with the 1100 Albanian highlanders, pls. post it here. Otherwise, consider yourself on the losing end on this topic.
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Post by radovic on Nov 30, 2008 12:47:36 GMT -5
[ Highland doesn't mean Gorani. Highland refers to anyone living in a highland area. Hence anyone in norhtern Albania. They should have specifically mentioned which area of moubntainous northern Albania. Look, we'll go in circles about this, Goran is the highlands, which include ppl who call themselves such name. If you have any links disproving Coon's work specifically with the 1100 Albanian highlanders, pls. post it here. Otherwise, consider yourself on the losing end on this topic. If you have anything dealing specificlaly with the Gorani, not just the Albanian highlands in general -- i.e. the north, then post it. What you have done is like claiming a study into genetic of the Timok region ignoring Vlachs in the Timok region.
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Post by raynon on Nov 30, 2008 15:06:51 GMT -5
If you have any links disproving Coon's results, that all Albanian Mountaineers genetic studies have proven that these people were connected to bones of males lviing in from 1800 BC have less than 2 % variation, which makes the Albanians mountaineers the oldest group found in Europe, and that less than 2 % variation between tribes of Ghegs from east to west,
pls post them here. You have not done your job. Saying Coon's work was discredited is not enough and if you want to find Coon's work on who these 1100 Mountain Ghegs are, you look it up and post those results which point out the arrival of Gorani's which have a higher rate of variation between other Ghegs in Western Albania.
Now, don't tell us you can find links to 'eu sources in wiki' proving Cedo in serbia wrong on eu farm subsidies but you can't find any studies proving Coon's studies wrong on the low genetic variations between Gheg Albanians and Gorani men. Get moving, or you will be considered a slacker who either doesn't know how to research or doesn't want to. No one will do your work for you.
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Post by radovic on Dec 1, 2008 11:39:20 GMT -5
If you have any links disproving Coon's results, that all Albanian Mountaineers genetic studies have proven that these people were connected to bones of males lviing in from 1800 BC have less than 2 % variation, which makes the Albanians mountaineers the oldest group found in Europe, and that less than 2 % variation between tribes of Ghegs from east to west, pls post them here. You have not done your job. Saying Coon's work was discredited is not enough and if you want to find Coon's work on who these 1100 Mountain Ghegs are, you look it up and post those results which point out the arrival of Gorani's which have a higher rate of variation between other Ghegs in Western Albania. Now, don't tell us you can find links to 'eu sources in wiki' proving Cedo in serbia wrong on eu farm subsidies but you can't find any studies proving Coon's studies wrong on the low genetic variations between Gheg Albanians and Gorani men. Get moving, or you will be considered a slacker who either doesn't know how to research or doesn't want to. No one will do your work for you. As I stated before. Their is nothing to imply this study ever specifically studied the Gorani. There ahsn't been any genetic study of the Gorani specifically, nopw ahs their been? Given that I'm not a geneticist or anthropologist, like Coon, there's no point in me doin g research for something I am not trained to do.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Dec 1, 2008 21:47:43 GMT -5
I agree with Rado that the Gorani speak old serbian, known as Torlakian. I see the Gorani related to the Bosniaks because whoever is either a serb or croat that is of islamic faith is a Bosniak.
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Post by raynon on Dec 1, 2008 23:25:34 GMT -5
rad, get the links or you're the loser in this ...you just can't say shit and expect all to believe you..u loza
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Post by benzino on Dec 3, 2008 5:27:42 GMT -5
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Post by Novi Pazar on Dec 3, 2008 5:52:13 GMT -5
^ They are pure Bosniaks, partly been assimilated into Albanians by pressure!.
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Post by benzino on Dec 3, 2008 6:40:52 GMT -5
"by pressure" ...when? Rankovic time? Milosevic time? Or last 10 Years?
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tyson
Amicus
Posts: 1,256
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Post by tyson on Dec 3, 2008 8:48:45 GMT -5
^^ by ottoman favouratism to muslims, and making life for christians unbearable.
like i said before culturally, the gorani are akin with albanians.
ethnically, the gorani are akin with macedonian christian slavs, and maybe partly to albanians from intermarriages.
also they are slavic speaking peoples, speaking a dialect close to slavic macedonian .
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Dec 3, 2008 16:52:11 GMT -5
Benzino...in the last video are albanians....dont forget Dragas municipality is with 65% albanians, 35% Gorans.loo like i said Gorans should have relation with Montegrins, and montengrins themself have albanian roots. look here more about last video: girls are with albanian flag:
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Dec 3, 2008 16:56:42 GMT -5
^^ by ottoman favouratism to muslims, and making life for christians unbearable. like i said before culturally, the gorani are akin with albanians. ethnically, the gorani are akin with macedonian christian slavs, and maybe partly to albanians from intermarriages. also they are slavic speaking peoples, speaking a dialect close to slavic macedonian . you confuzed with Torbesh...they culturally, dialect and racially are close with Bulgarians but Gorans are diffirent.
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tyson
Amicus
Posts: 1,256
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Post by tyson on Dec 3, 2008 19:21:33 GMT -5
^^ i'm well aware of what torbesh are and what gorani are. they are both racially close to macodenian christian slavs. the difference is culture,..... gorani are culturally more similar to albanians, and torbesh are culturally more similar to macedonian christian slavs
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