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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Nov 22, 2007 14:34:53 GMT -5
The name issue between Greece and R.M. (FYROM) exists and that is that Greece believes that the name Macedonia can not be used by a population that is slavophone and can not be connected in any shape or form to ancient Hellenistic Macedonians (neither in territory they live which was ancient Hellenistic Peonia, neither in language, nor in culture nor in religion) and that the only people who can be connected to these old people would have to be ones who have most similarities with them and that is Greek province of Macedonia (same language, Greek identity and territory).
R.M is a a new creation with nationalities that appeared in 1945 after Marshal Tito (ruler of a new communist Yugoslavia) declared new nationalities such as Montenegrins, (slavophone) Muslims and (slavophone) Macedonians. Serbian Scientist Jovan Cvijic was clear (~ 100 years ago) that todays slavophone Macedonians mainly viewed themselves as Slavs.
R.M. is a new creation as it is its nationality and as such they are far removed from direct connection from any old Macedonia and as a result should be viewed as 'New Macedonia' or 'Neo Macedonia' as that's what they effectively are. They are a new nationality that calls itself Macedonian. The term 'New Macedonian' or 'Neo Macedonian' effectively separates them from old Macedonians which should alleviate any worries Greece has and should also satisfy R.M. as it allows them to keep the name Macedonia (although in a modified and more accurate form).
New Macedonia / Neo Macedonia Newmacedonian / Neomacedonian
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Nov 22, 2007 14:37:48 GMT -5
Some historical maps as far as how the name came and was spread. Paleo-Balkans (practically prehistoric Balkans) --Old Macedonians in todays Greek Macedonia --Frigians and Peonians in todays R.M. Old Hellenistic Macedonia (blue) spreads into Thesaly and Thrace. Roman Macedonia (covers many greek regions north of Athens) www.eliznik.org.uk/EastEurope/History/balkans-map/7b-ad.htmFirst Bulgar state in the BalkansBulgars 680 - The Bulgars, a Turkic tribe from the east, having been forced from their kingdom around the Black Sea, formed the First State of Bulgaria, as rulers of the Slavs. Their kingdom covered the Danube plain to the north (modern Romania) and south (modern Bulgaria). Later the state of Bulgaria was extended further south into Thrace and Macedonia." -Byzantine Macedonia (remains Greek) -Todays R.M. controlled by Bulgars (as well as much of north balkans) -Ottoman Macedonia (Szaloniki Vilajet) covers todays Greek Macedonia -Todays R.M. divided between 3 Vilajets (Monastir, Szaloniki and Szandzak) greek province of Macedonia and R.M.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Nov 22, 2007 15:44:30 GMT -5
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Nov 22, 2007 19:56:42 GMT -5
I my opinion only New Macedonia might be a name that R.M. might accept as it is most logical choice, small addition of the word New that denotes separation from old Macedonia (which at that point can also be called simply Macedonia without anyone confusing it for New Macedonia). Again, it has a chance of being accepted by the government in Skopje which is not the case with other names such as; Titoist Rep. of Macedonia, Rep. of Vardarska Macedonia, Rep. of Makeslavia, Rep. of Vardarslavia, Slavic Rep. of Macedonia, Rep. of Skopija, Rep. of Centroslavia, Former Yugoslav Rep. of Macedonia which are also too long to be pronounced and thus not catchy and therefore will not stand the test of time. There is really several logical choices here (as I believe that the name of a Balkan country has to have a simple and memorable name and not a long technical one this masses will not absorb) such as 1- Peonia or New Peonia2- New Macedonia or Neo Macedonia3- Skopia/2: Scopia(2: Latin scripted languages) (Slavic: Skopija) but only option 2 (New Macedonia) seems to have a chance as being accepted by both Athens and Skopje and that is why I keep insisting on that one. there are distant chances of 3 being accepted and perhaps number one but number 2 is most probable as a compromise to be accepted by all. ps: name should be based on a name of a region (modern or ancient name) with or without the word "New" in front of such name. Other sources for the name could be biggest city, river, mountain etc. Vardar does not sound attractive nor easily pronounced, neither does any other city name outside of Skopje or rather Skopia/Scopia (named after ancient city of Skopi thus with ancient roots). Again, New Macedonia sounds easiest to digest for everyone. Still Peonia/New Peonia and Skopia are there as options. ps2: one could use bellow link as a source of inspiration of the possible names for R.M. as it contained many modern and older maps of this particular geographical region faq.macedonia.org/maps/index.frame.html
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Post by radovic on Nov 23, 2007 11:53:16 GMT -5
If they are going to use the word Macedonia name then they should acknowledged that their nation is an artifical creation made by Tito. tito is the true father of their nation so I suggest they call themselves Titostan or Titoist Republic of Macedonia.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Nov 23, 2007 12:43:50 GMT -5
Radovic I do not see your suggestion as a feasible one as neither will they accept such name and second calling itself Titoist implies (as far as I am concerned) following Titoist socialist policies which define far more what Titoist means then a mere fact that Tito invented/accepted them as a new nationality. You have basically stated that they are a new nation created by someone (just as most nations have been created usually after some struggle) and I fail to see how calling them ' New Macedonia' fails to address that. Terms Titoism and Titoist en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titoism
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Post by Arxileas on Nov 23, 2007 17:31:53 GMT -5
Their name should be Republic of Vardaska...Or Republic of Central Bulkan...NO M Or Macedonian any where these people do not have any right to that name. Just because they were refering them selfs by that name for Geographical reasons doesn't give the right to use that name.
They were briefly referred as the region of Yugoslavia, Vardaska for a short period once.
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Post by greek1234 on Nov 23, 2007 19:50:21 GMT -5
I believe the Republic of Skopjia would be the best choice. New Macedonia makes it sound like a seperest Greek state or an ex Greek Republic. The actual word Macedonia and the history which comes with it has the biggest meaning.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Nov 25, 2007 21:09:31 GMT -5
"I believe the Republic of Skopjia would be the best choice. New Macedonia makes it sound like a seperest Greek state or an ex Greek Republic. The actual word Macedonia and the history which comes with it has the biggest meaning."
X 2!. Granting them a name like new macedonia still leaves the door open for them to claim ancient macedonia....a big no no for me.
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Post by Arxileas on Nov 25, 2007 21:42:32 GMT -5
"Granting them a name like new macedonia still leaves the door open for them to claim ancient macedonia....a big no no for me. I couldn't agree more, I strongly oppose any naming that includes "Macedonia" any where.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Nov 26, 2007 1:34:29 GMT -5
I personally think that term Skopia is most warranted (also many states are named after their capitals and this name has long historical regions within the region) BUT I think that the term New Macedonia might be most acceptable to BOTH sides.
Skopia is most warranted as I can not find any other name that could complement them in a more accurate manner (after all this is the center of their state, biggest city there that is the gravitational center of the entire country in many ways).
Countries having the same name as their their capital cities are numerous (some examples are Luxembourg, Tunisia, Kuwait, Djibouti, Panama and Mexico).
So it appears most here gravitate towards Skopia (which might with time also become more acceptable for the other party if New Macedonia is not acceptable for Greece). It appears that these two names will be the only tow in play long term speaking before compromise is forged. There should not be many name variations as that only clouds the whole issue even more and the solution is needed, not more confusion.
Republic of Skopia versus Republic of New Macedonia
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Post by Novi Pazar on Nov 26, 2007 6:47:48 GMT -5
"I couldn't agree more, I strongly oppose any naming that includes "Macedonia" any where."
I'm in the same opinion, i'm embrassed that they call themselves as such but l do get angry that these people do know consciously what they really are and know who they really relate to (bulgars and serbs).
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Post by Novi Pazar on Nov 26, 2007 7:02:09 GMT -5
"I personally think that term Skopia is most warranted (also many states are named after their capitals and this name has long historical regions within the region) BUT I think that the term New Macedonia might be most acceptable to BOTH sides."
Aadmin, l understand your concept; it wouldn't be a problem for someone with knowledge to be able to distinguish between macedonia and new macedonia, however, most people don't know history and would assume logically that macedonia then is the same as todays new macedonia.
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Nov 27, 2007 14:17:35 GMT -5
I think they should call themselves Peonia (cause in their teritory lived the Peonians). Its accepted the Peonians were Thracians, so they can name it Thrace. If the historic justice should prevail, they should call it New Bulgaria, Second Bulgaria, West Bulgaria ot Kuber Bulgaria (cause the Bulgars of Kuber settled there).
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Post by Arxileas on Nov 28, 2007 0:47:06 GMT -5
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Nov 28, 2007 4:50:24 GMT -5
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Nov 28, 2007 4:53:57 GMT -5
"I couldn't agree more, I strongly oppose any naming that includes "Macedonia" any where." I'm in the same opinion, i'm embrassed that they call themselves as such but l do get angry that these people do know consciously what they really are and know who they really relate to ( bulgars and serbs). Bulgarians. The Bulgars were the founders of nowadays Bulgaria and one of the defing people that formed nowadays Bulgarians (heirs of Thracians, Slavs and Bulgars).
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Post by Arxileas on Nov 28, 2007 8:30:22 GMT -5
You better believe it, one of the members there at the forum which he is also posting "link is provided on my previous post" He is a Serb living in Skopjia. Have a look at the rest of his articles his id name is Vasiliye. This FYROM will not exist if they don't get their heads in the right place soon.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Nov 28, 2007 21:40:33 GMT -5
"Have a look at the rest of his articles his id name is Vasiliye."
I've read some of his stuff, he comes up with interesting arguments.
"The one who with intent to mock shall publicly expose to ridicule the Macedonian people and the nationalities, shall be punished with prison from three months to three years."
pffft.....no democracy here, this is so dumb!.
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Post by kartadolofonos on Dec 1, 2007 20:11:33 GMT -5
Name compromise: No FYROM and No Greek Term of Macedonia9). [glow=red,2,300]Compromise Names:[/glow] Republica Vardardardanija Vardarslavija Republica or Republica Vardanija, Republica Vardarthuania Republica VardaritaniaRepublica Vardarsylvania Republica VardarizonaRepublica Vardarsiana, Vardarslavdardania RepublicaRepublica Vardarsylvania,Republica Vardardardanija Republica Vardaritania,Vardarslavdardania Republica, Republica Vardarizona, Republica Vardarthuania are my favorite names for FYROM !!! Fyrom must stop his Propaganda against Greece It is Forbitten to use Macedonian name symbol flag or any character of Ancient Macedonia . The Republic of Macedonia." Immediately, they announced that the portions of the Macedonian region within Greece, Bulgaria and Albania were under foreign "occupation," printing the famous "White Tower" of Thessaloniki in Greece on their monetary notes; named the city of Thessaloniki (which they call "Solun") as their nation's "capital" under Greek occupation; printed schoolbooks and started teaching their children that Macedonia outside their current borders is under foreign occupation; depicted the "Sun of Vergina," discovered during excavations of King Philip's tomb in the late 1970's, as the symbol for their "national" flag; and, among myriad other usurpations, pronounced Alexander the Great their historical ancestor. Ancient Macedonia is belongs to Greece.!!! .... and stop in FYROM teaching false history in schools about territorial claims against Greece... This claims is ridiculous !!!!
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