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Post by Prevalis on Oct 22, 2007 9:55:37 GMT -5
Montenegrins are Slavs but their origins are unclear. Some say they originate from White Serbia (or Bojka) or from White Croatia, the regions where Serbs and Croats descend from, so that is why many believe that Montenegrins descend from Serbs and/or Croats.
There is another, a more probable, theory that says the Montenegrins descend from Polabian Slavs, Obodrites and Veleti. The Montenegrins were the first Slavs to migrate to the Balkans. They migrated in the 6th century to the Roman province of Prevalis (today's Montenegro) and assimilated with the native Illyrians.
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Post by terroreign on Oct 22, 2007 18:45:35 GMT -5
I do believe in the third theory as do many Montes, because of the fact that the croats migrated into the balkans from an area in poland and serbs from an area in germany (sorbs)
while the slavs who came to MNE were said to migrate into the balkans from an area on the baltic sea, where many matching toponyms are found.
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Post by radovic on Oct 24, 2007 11:14:39 GMT -5
I do believe in the third theory as do many Montes, because of the fact that the croats migrated into the balkans from an area in poland and serbs from an area in germany (sorbs) while the slavs who came to MNE were said to migrate into the balkans from an area on the baltic sea, where many matching toponyms are found. Actually. There's some evidence to suggest that Sorbs moved to Germany from the area on the Baltic sea. A name sometimes used for Sorbs is Wends and at one time the Baltic sea was called the Wend Sea.
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Post by terroreign on Oct 24, 2007 12:09:46 GMT -5
well theres much more evidence suggesting sorbs came from a region in the caucausus
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Post by radovic on Oct 24, 2007 12:20:01 GMT -5
well theres much more evidence suggesting sorbs came from a region in the caucausus Never heard of it. And since it's coming from you, i don't believe it. may be your talking of the region north of the Caucausus, not in the Caucausus.
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Post by terroreign on Oct 24, 2007 12:27:11 GMT -5
around present day georgia, that is the caucausus...they were known in ancient greek historical texts as "serboi"
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Post by radovic on Oct 24, 2007 12:38:42 GMT -5
around present day georgia, that is the caucausus...they were known in ancient greek historical texts as "serboi" B.S. Serboi were found in southern russia in the region just north of the Caucuausus. Not in Georgia. Reading into the theories the only person who claimed we were from the Caucausus is Dr. Dominik Mandiæ a Croat who claimed Serbs were of Alarodian decent. The Serboi tribe was never in the Caucausus as you claim, other Sarmatian tribes were.
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Post by terroreign on Oct 24, 2007 12:43:35 GMT -5
ancient greek texts cite these people as "serboi", if you dont want to recognize it, fine by me
btw, georgia spans from the caucausus to just the north of the caucasus, look at a map
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Post by radovic on Oct 24, 2007 12:47:08 GMT -5
ancient greek texts cite these people as "serboi", if you dont want to recognize it, fine by me btw, georgia spans from the caucausus to just the north of the caucasus, look at a map \ Your an idiot. You look at a map, the caucausus goes into Russia and all of Georgia falls into Caucuasus. Serboi were not present in Georgia.
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Post by terroreign on Oct 24, 2007 13:03:12 GMT -5
From where do you get your information that the serboi weren't present in Georgia? or in the caucausus?
The texts state that the serboi were on the black sea around the north caucasus, this is georgia my friend
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Post by radovic on Oct 24, 2007 13:09:58 GMT -5
see the pink at the tip of georgia? thats where the serbs come from they were probably some kind of sarmatian/caucasian hybrid mix with maybe a mix of iranian ;D B.S. The Serbs were not present in Georgia. Your make another absurd claims. The Serbs were north of the Caucausus mountains. Furthermore. Your map implies serbs are related to Abkhaz. the Abkhaz are turkic not persian peoples. Furthermore even Dominik Mandic who claimed Aloradian origin for Serbs said we were nto in Georgia but in Dagestan. Furthermore. I do not support his or your historical revisionism. We were not found in the Caucuasus. We were in the north of the Caucausus, and if the Serboi were in the caucuausus they would be to the extreme north in the Stravopol region.
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Post by terroreign on Oct 24, 2007 16:22:10 GMT -5
No, they were cited on the black sea in present day georgia, by the greeks
i dont know what the croats said...
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Post by radovic on Oct 25, 2007 9:49:07 GMT -5
No, they were cited on the black sea in present day georgia, by the greeks i dont know what the croats said... Any link. Most sources I've read say southern russia what is north of the Caucausus. Abkhazia- the region you listed is in the Caucuausus. If the Serboi were in the caucausus it would be in the extreme north where the Stravopol region is.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Nov 3, 2007 17:35:04 GMT -5
Origins of Montenegrins is the topic at hand.
I see people arguing about supposed Slavic origins of Montenegrins as a result of the fact that certain words found in Montenegro can be traced to todays Poland for example.
Words are exactly just that, WORDS, nothing more nothing less. They can not be the only reason for claiming that a given human population can be traced from some region. All such analysis can say is a possible origin of the original CARRIERS of such language (Slavic in this particular case) into a particular area (todays Montenegro in this case). The case appears that these original Carriers would have been from the region where todays western Slavs reside (same goes for Croats and Serbs in regards to where the original slavized sarmatian Serbs and sarmatian Croats originated from).
Now the question (left unanswered) is where Montenegrins are from and not where the language they use is from.
To make the answer simpler the answer is not Slavic.
According to cultural anthropology, physical anthropology and genetics the answer is that we are speaking about slavized native Balkan population just as it appears to be the case with most of the so called 'south Slavs' (in effect slavized Balkanians or Balkanian slavophones).
Simplified picture of how did todays Montenegrins come about
1-Local Hellenistic Illyrians 2-Romanized (after romans arrived) 3-Vlachs (up to early middle ages) 4-Slavized (by the 11-13 century)
rest is known
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Post by srbobran on Nov 4, 2007 11:27:50 GMT -5
I agree. Just like Serbs and Croats, the Montenegrins area result of the Slavic assimilation of indigenous populations.
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Demonel
Amicus
I am Jack's regained insanity.
Posts: 833
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Post by Demonel on Nov 4, 2007 12:12:41 GMT -5
I don't get this "Hellenistic Illyrians" isn't Hellenism the culture spread by Alexander the Great? As far as I know he went to the East and not to the West.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Nov 4, 2007 14:46:38 GMT -5
this hellenistic influence predates Alexander thus should not be equaled with him in any manner. Stabo states that southern Illyrians, Macedonians and Epirotes are close kin in terms of language (archaic homeric like greek) and overall culture. Regarding these hellenistic Illyrians... O elementima politickog organiziranja ilirskih zajednica linkTranslated in English: On elements of political organization of illyrian communities link
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Post by crnogoracilir on Jun 12, 2011 7:47:35 GMT -5
I think that the Montenegrins are from Illyrian Origin because why they called themselves before the Slavs Dokleati and after the Slavs.After the Battle of Kosovo some Serbs came in to Montenegro and then more and more so today Montenegro has many Slavs/Serbs.But real Montenegrins are Illyrians.
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Post by crnogoracilir on Aug 9, 2011 16:41:27 GMT -5
Illyrians as Dorians Carleton S. Coon found a connection between the Illyrians and the Dorians based on his anthropological analyses of the Montenegrin population and the Sfakian population in Crete. Coon discovered that Montenegro is a highly concentrated Illyrian racial zone and that the Sfakians are directly descended from Doric tribes that invaded Crete from the direction of Macedonia and Illyria. Moreover, he discovered that Montenegrins and Sfakians shared many similarities in stature, appearance, language, national costume, belligerent tendencies, tribal orders, and vendettas.
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Post by uz on Aug 9, 2011 16:47:21 GMT -5
I think that the Montenegrins are from Illyrian Origin because why they called themselves before the Slavs Dokleati and after the Slavs.After the Battle of Kosovo some Serbs came in to Montenegro and then more and more so today Montenegro has many Slavs/Serbs.But real Montenegrins are Illyrians. Illyria was pretty much all of Yugoslavia, why just the montenegrins?
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