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Post by ccccnjegoscccc on Sept 28, 2008 3:48:58 GMT -5
Malesors are Albanians. And Albanians dont know what they are............so its confusing.
Either way, they dont mean much to Montenegro.
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Post by srbobran on Sept 28, 2008 11:39:55 GMT -5
Albanians took control over these territories in the 14th century and started sending the Slavs packing.
The 14th century is when Serbian rule in Epirus was totally solidified. You didn't send anyone packing, especially when we had people like Thomas II Preljubović - Albanoktonos to keep your tribes in check.
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Post by meltdown711 on Sept 28, 2008 14:51:08 GMT -5
(Sorry, I was wrong about the first statement.) And his rule was primarily in Ioannina, he had little control outside of it. In fact in order to have som semblence of authority, he granted Albanian chieftains official positions in areas they controlled, such as Gjirokaster in southern Albania. Albanians dominated and continually plundered various areas outside of Ioannina but simply did not have the means to take the very well fortified city.
PS: Thomas married off his daughter to the Albanian Peter Liosha in order to get him into an alliance
And Albanian tribes were not put into check until the Ottoman arrived on the scene. Thomas' campaigns were only for a short number of years in contrast to the century long Albanian control over territories that everntually became southern Albania.
And Pogradec was never under Thomas' control, so I dont see why you bothered to bring him up. The center of his control was the Arta region, which he did defend successfully,but the other areas, such as what is now southern Albania were firmly under Albanian control and waves of non-Albanians continued to flee the area at this time and entered into Arta and Ioannina. These people didnt return until the Ottoman arrived.
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Post by srbobran on Sept 28, 2008 15:15:00 GMT -5
Albanians didn't rule jack. Epirus was ruled by Greeks, Serbs, and Bulgarians and Albanians were generally unimportant in their affairs, was there ever an Albanian state before 1912? No. There you go.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Sept 28, 2008 18:45:30 GMT -5
You have to mention highdukes name just to deflect the reality. The Bulgars settled in North West Bulgaria and made abode their capitial in 681, now known as Pliska. The Serbs already named all the mountains, towns and rivers in your Albania. The Bulgars arrived in Albania during the time samuil.
Anyway what does golobarde mean?
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Post by meltdown711 on Sept 28, 2008 21:43:16 GMT -5
Your an idiot. The area of Gjirokaster was ruled by various Albanian chieftain families, along with other territories in the south, namely by men such as Peter Liosha, John 'The Sword' Bua and Muzaka families, in the northern part there were such clans as the Dukagjins in the area of Shkoder, Kastriots in the area of Diber and Mati(the area around Kruja today).I suggest you check up with men such as John V.A. Fine's The Late Medieval Balkans, since your such a dunce on the topic.
On the issue of Albanian significance in Epirus, Fine writes:
"Theodore [of Epirus] worked diligently to assure himself of the loyalty and support of various Albanian chieftains." (112)
Albanians also became a major focus of the Nicean empire:
"By winning the alliegence of Golem, the Albanian chieftain who held the mountain fortress of Kroja, Vatatzes broke the ice. Soon various Albanian tribal leaders brought their tribes into the camp."
Because of this: "Having lost its Macedonian and some of its Albanian holdings, Epirus lost much of its potentia manpower and was thus much weaker militarily." (158)
The later Despot of Epirus, Micheal "bearing promises and gifts, traveled around the mountains of Albania to regain the support of chieftains."(160)
A century later it was the destruction caused by Albanian tribes that severely weakened the Despotate of Epirus and secured its death after the defeat at the Battle of the Acheloos where Albanians ended killing the Despote Nicephoros. In the aftermath Albanians became the central ethnicity in the region, forcing much of the landed population into the region of Arta and then into Ioannina. The main issue confronting the rulers of Ioaninna was just how to stop the Albanians. Something that wasnt answered until the Ottoman arrived.
When I get back to campus Ill give you some citations from Nicol's Despotate of Epiros.
Your the one who copies and pastes his quotes blindly.... everytime you bring up a quote or a comment, its always some how related to what Highduke once said. You dont have the brains to argue otherwise.
Oh and can you bring me some placename data from the time of 681? The Byzantines lost control of their northern territories in the 5-7th century and did not regain them until the 9th and 10th. This period is a time of immense darkness in Byzantine history since there are very very few surviving sources. Its not until the 11th century that we get some more light outside of archeological evidence.
And I neither know what Golobardo means, nor care to. Like I said, Albania, unlike Greece, has yet to erase the slavic placenames in her land. Something that will come with time
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Post by Novi Pazar on Sept 28, 2008 22:45:17 GMT -5
"Oh and can you bring me some placename data from the time of 681?" According to D.Mikov in Les etapes d'une unite nationale, Sofia, 1915, p.7: The history of the Bulgarian state in the Balkans begins with the arrival of a group of Bulgarians, under the leadership of Khan Asparuch, in the region around Varna, they numbered approximately fifty thousand. At the Pliska, or Pliskova, near the modern village of Abode, their first capital came into being, covering a large fortified area of twenty-three square kilometers. "And I neither know what Golobardo means, nor care to" I know what in means in Serbian.....bare hill
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Post by meltdown711 on Sept 28, 2008 22:53:16 GMT -5
I dont care about Bulgaria... thats not the topic
Ugly name. Albanians will associate it with something else in the future and the Slavic imprint will be dissolved.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Sept 28, 2008 22:56:36 GMT -5
"I dont care about Bulgaria... thats not the topic"
I'm just trying to tell you that serbs and later Jovan Vladimir were the principal inhabitants of your Albania....it was before the Bulgars came.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Sept 28, 2008 22:58:22 GMT -5
"Ugly name. Albanians will associate it with something else in the future and the Slavic imprint will be dissolved."
Well keep supporting Mr Topi and you'll get what your dreaming....hey you can call it shqitarbardo, might sound better.
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Post by meltdown711 on Sept 28, 2008 23:03:14 GMT -5
Really? in fact Tirana follows with Te Rena. Meaning people who settled from the mountains, or "fell"(literally as it is said in Alb). Vlora and Durres were Greek settlements, something quite known... Especially as Epidamnos/Dyrrachion/um, was a very important city in the start of the Pelopennesian war and later Ceasar-Pomepian war.
Shkumbini... well, I can find an Albanian word related to Shkumbin, shkum meaning foam...
The cities of Pogradec and Berat(originally Belograd) were founded under the Bulgarian Empire. Both cities received their names under Simeon...
Neither case is true. It doesnt say anything about Serbs living anywhere. Until any major study comes about saying Serbs were in fact so, there is no reason for me to believe any such stupidity.
You have no argument, only suppositions based on a need for you to disprove the notion that Albs are Illyrians for the Kosova case. Its pathetic, weak and biased. Debate with me when you have half a brain to think for yourself. Thats the most indirect quote ever and to reach a supposition as high as yours from it... its just dumb.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Sept 28, 2008 23:20:03 GMT -5
"in fact Tirana follows with Te Rena"
Look how its spelt differently.
However Belograd = White city (Belgrade).
You know what toski, l have a uncle living in kosovo from the town of Borova, coincidently there is a Borova in Albania as well.....who knows hey.
"The cities of Pogradec and Berat(originally Belograd) were founded under the Bulgarian Empire."
The bulgars came through Albania much later (9th century), however serbs during the 6th century were partially getting transferred off to asia minor from the valley of vardar, hence the town Gordoservion they founded there.
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Post by meltdown711 on Sept 28, 2008 23:24:13 GMT -5
Locals dont call Tirana as such, thats from the southern Tosk dialect imposed under Hoxha. ;)On top of that, when a compound word becomes nomenclature, it doesnt necessarily maintain the same properties. Tirana was founded 400 years ago... whats more, the founder was Albanian. lol Wow, you couldnt be more deft. Again, the two cities were founded by the Bulgarian Emperor, this is an attested historical fact. They were founded in the 9th century over existing settlements and were used as forts. It was under the Ottoman Empire that they became cities. And Gordoservion was heavily made up of Serbs from the Pelopennese and Macedonia. Between the 6-9th century, Slavic people held control of most of the Pelopenesus and is principally the reason why there is such a lack in Byzantine coinage in that area during this period. I know, unfortunately Slavs settled in many low land areas during the 9-13th century. The placenames were retained even though the population wasnt. It will have to be changed, as I said. Borova is in the south, near Korca(Goritsa), another Bulgarian founded settlement. Oh and btw, cool to see that your uncle is from the Republic of Kosova. Is he a citizen or has he left?
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Post by Novi Pazar on Sept 29, 2008 6:50:00 GMT -5
"Wow, you couldnt be more deft. Again, the two cities were founded by the Bulgarian Emperor, this is an attested historical fact. They were founded in the 9th century over existing settlements and were used as forts. It was under the Ottoman Empire that they became cities."
"Borova is in the south, near Korca(Goritsa), another Bulgarian founded settlement"
lol, so my uncles town in north Kosovo was named by Bulgars. There are many more slavic serbian named cities even in nth Albania.
Toski, l'm a kosovo serb. I'll say it again, l still have family there mostly in the north. We are sort of scattered between nth kosovo, novi pazar and vranje. Kosovo isn't a country yet, Toski.
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Post by Duke John on Sept 29, 2008 8:33:24 GMT -5
"Wow, you couldnt be more deft. Again, the two cities were founded by the Bulgarian Emperor, this is an attested historical fact. They were founded in the 9th century over existing settlements and were used as forts. It was under the Ottoman Empire that they became cities." "Borova is in the south, near Korca(Goritsa), another Bulgarian founded settlement" lol, so my uncles town in north Kosovo was named by Bulgars. There are many more slavic serbian named cities even in nth Albania. Toski, l'm a kosovo serb. I'll say it again, l still have family there mostly in the north. We are sort of scattered between nth kosovo, novi pazar and vranje. Kosovo isn't a country yet, Toski. I know this post of yours was dirrected to Toskali but anyways you are not even a native Kosova serb, if i remember right your mother side is not from Kosova and i would not be suprised if your fathers side is also dosljaci, i see you make big noise here about Kosova, when was the last time you were in Kosova? you really need to go there and see buy your self wether it is a country or not but im 100% sure that you will be disapointed, maybe its time for you to go visit the Balkans and update your imaginary Balkans to Balkan reality!.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Sept 29, 2008 18:42:09 GMT -5
^ yes my mothers family migrated to kosovo from montenegro, but my fathers family is native to kosovo.
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Post by albaniaaaan on Oct 1, 2008 7:48:49 GMT -5
I find the admin's comments that everyone must be Greek (Hellene, pardon me) hilarious. On another thread they mention certain characteristics of Montegrins and he says they must be Spartan....from 2500 years ago, when a look at Malesoret right next door and their traditions can easily explain the clan, blood feuds, chastity, killing over honor, guns etc.
As you should know, modern Greece was formed based on ORTHODOXY, not blood lines. If you were Orthodox you stayed, if not you were sent to Turkey and exchanged with a 'Greek' (which could be an Orthodox Kurd for all we know) so give it a break.
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Post by albaniaaaan on Oct 1, 2008 7:51:29 GMT -5
>>>There are many more slavic serbian named cities even in nth Albania.
yeah, Slavs came in hordes and overrun the native population, at least for a while. Do you want the name Kosovo? You can have it.
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