Post by leshte on May 31, 2009 1:44:57 GMT -5
First of all the I wanna point out that in Albania people as obsessed with religious issues as Melty are rare, very rare. Even my 88 year old grandfather doesn't talk about religion this much. Second I wanna point out some reasons I think attribute to better relations with Turkey than with Greece.
1. We border Greece and not Turkey, (hence better relations with Turkey, we have better relations with most of the countries we do not border than with our neighbours.)
2. We have no minority issues with Turkey, and they have no migration issues with us.
3. We have no historical land disputes with Turkey, some circles from both Greece and Albania think we have unsolved issues.
5. Turkey often helps us just to upset Greece, out of spite.
6. Turkey ( at least with the military bases in Albania; although now I think they're under the US) wants to be near the other side of the border with Greece as a threat to them or maybe out of spite.
7. With all the alliance between the Slavs and the Greeks, ( having in mind the relationship between Turkey and Greece) Turkey saw us as the only counterweight against this alliance.
8. Turkey does not want Greece to dominate the Balkans when it comes to policy. We are the excuse Turkey uses to stop this domination.
9. Turkey believes that the fact that majority in Albania are nominally Muslims is a no brainer to have a better relationship with. ( Having lived in Albania for 18 years, I can tell that for the average Albanians religion comes last; do not use Melty as the litmus test when it comes to Albanians and religion).
10. Nowadays some high generals, mayors, etc. in Turkey are descendants of those Albanians that where expelled from Greece and Serbia under the excuse that if you were a Muslim you were a Turk. Maybe they still hold a grudge against Greece and Serbia. ( Mayor of Izmir for example was from the capital of Kosova-Prishtina).
11. The trade we have with Turkey I think is bigger than that we have with Greece.
12. We go to Turkey on vacation visa free, 500 dollars a week its really cheap, at least that's how much it used to be. Vacation money coming from Albania and not from Greece is a very minor reason. There's thousands and thousands of Albanians that go on vacation in Turkey.
13. In the last 150-200 there has been a lot of distrust for both Turkey and Greece. However in the last 20 years and during communism, there has been military provocations coming from Greece. Since we do not border with Turkey there are no such provocations.
14.Turkey did not allow Russian ships to pass through is waterways to make it to the Adriatic during the Kosova war.
15 Turkey was among the first to recognize Kosova.
16.Turkey is lobbying for more recognitions.
17. There is no neighbourly jealousy with the Turks since we do not border them.
18. Some of the first books in Turkey such as encyclopedias, some of the first soccer teams in Turkey ( I believe either Fehnerbace or Gallatasary), some of the really good architectural masterpieces were done by Albanians and they recognize that, unlike the Greeks who deny the contribution of those with Albanian origin to the Greek revolution. Unlike Greeks they recognize our contribution, however little to their society. Greeks deny that, even though they know it.
19. We back their EU aspirations, I guess Greece doesn't.
Ok all those points are only valid, for the most part, for the last 20 years. Before that for 40 years we had no contact with them. In the period after WWI onwards the attitude towards the Turks and Turkey was a very negative one. Don't believe any muslim fairy tale from anyone. I have my history source right here with me, through my Muslim grandfather. And until 3 years ago I had my 105 year old great grandmother who could talk about the Turks, the Greeks, the slavs, the Italians, the Germans and the French around the Pogradec-Korca region. What each of them did and to which house they did it to.
Also I believe, and I apologize If I'm mistaken, Turkey has not made donations for mosques. Donations coming from Turkey have either been military donations, or donations to build hospitals.
However as I said earlier I think the future is bright. I believe we should have the best relations possible with our neighbours, since being neighbours means feeling the impact of each other on our daily life, and its better to be friends than enemies. And if we cant be friends at least we should do our best to be neutral to each other. Everyone in our region can benefit and progress from better relations. It means peace and stability, and I believe in a climate of peace and stability we can all flourish. I believe with the fall of communism the future is much much brighter for the region.
1. We border Greece and not Turkey, (hence better relations with Turkey, we have better relations with most of the countries we do not border than with our neighbours.)
2. We have no minority issues with Turkey, and they have no migration issues with us.
3. We have no historical land disputes with Turkey, some circles from both Greece and Albania think we have unsolved issues.
5. Turkey often helps us just to upset Greece, out of spite.
6. Turkey ( at least with the military bases in Albania; although now I think they're under the US) wants to be near the other side of the border with Greece as a threat to them or maybe out of spite.
7. With all the alliance between the Slavs and the Greeks, ( having in mind the relationship between Turkey and Greece) Turkey saw us as the only counterweight against this alliance.
8. Turkey does not want Greece to dominate the Balkans when it comes to policy. We are the excuse Turkey uses to stop this domination.
9. Turkey believes that the fact that majority in Albania are nominally Muslims is a no brainer to have a better relationship with. ( Having lived in Albania for 18 years, I can tell that for the average Albanians religion comes last; do not use Melty as the litmus test when it comes to Albanians and religion).
10. Nowadays some high generals, mayors, etc. in Turkey are descendants of those Albanians that where expelled from Greece and Serbia under the excuse that if you were a Muslim you were a Turk. Maybe they still hold a grudge against Greece and Serbia. ( Mayor of Izmir for example was from the capital of Kosova-Prishtina).
11. The trade we have with Turkey I think is bigger than that we have with Greece.
12. We go to Turkey on vacation visa free, 500 dollars a week its really cheap, at least that's how much it used to be. Vacation money coming from Albania and not from Greece is a very minor reason. There's thousands and thousands of Albanians that go on vacation in Turkey.
13. In the last 150-200 there has been a lot of distrust for both Turkey and Greece. However in the last 20 years and during communism, there has been military provocations coming from Greece. Since we do not border with Turkey there are no such provocations.
14.Turkey did not allow Russian ships to pass through is waterways to make it to the Adriatic during the Kosova war.
15 Turkey was among the first to recognize Kosova.
16.Turkey is lobbying for more recognitions.
17. There is no neighbourly jealousy with the Turks since we do not border them.
18. Some of the first books in Turkey such as encyclopedias, some of the first soccer teams in Turkey ( I believe either Fehnerbace or Gallatasary), some of the really good architectural masterpieces were done by Albanians and they recognize that, unlike the Greeks who deny the contribution of those with Albanian origin to the Greek revolution. Unlike Greeks they recognize our contribution, however little to their society. Greeks deny that, even though they know it.
19. We back their EU aspirations, I guess Greece doesn't.
Ok all those points are only valid, for the most part, for the last 20 years. Before that for 40 years we had no contact with them. In the period after WWI onwards the attitude towards the Turks and Turkey was a very negative one. Don't believe any muslim fairy tale from anyone. I have my history source right here with me, through my Muslim grandfather. And until 3 years ago I had my 105 year old great grandmother who could talk about the Turks, the Greeks, the slavs, the Italians, the Germans and the French around the Pogradec-Korca region. What each of them did and to which house they did it to.
Also I believe, and I apologize If I'm mistaken, Turkey has not made donations for mosques. Donations coming from Turkey have either been military donations, or donations to build hospitals.
However as I said earlier I think the future is bright. I believe we should have the best relations possible with our neighbours, since being neighbours means feeling the impact of each other on our daily life, and its better to be friends than enemies. And if we cant be friends at least we should do our best to be neutral to each other. Everyone in our region can benefit and progress from better relations. It means peace and stability, and I believe in a climate of peace and stability we can all flourish. I believe with the fall of communism the future is much much brighter for the region.