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Post by Kassandros on May 15, 2009 14:41:20 GMT -5
Toskali its about your brothers, the Turks... from a Turkish newspaper.. today! www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=175307my favorite part.. "..Let's go back to Ýzmir again. This city once had the largest non-Muslim population in Turkey. Greeks, Jews and Armenians were more populous than Turks. Today, however, you can not find any of these non-Turkish groups. They have all vanished. And guess what happened to their properties…This may explain why modern Turkish people do not like non-Muslims. Because the latter represent a past that modern Turks do not want to face. They have adopted the lifestyles of these non-Muslims to a great extent, but they do not want to see them around. But why they do not like Muslims either, then? Maybe Muslims remind them that they are not authentic. They remind them where they are coming from. The roots that they have denied… Theirs is a very difficult identity crisis to deal with."Thank God a Turk said it because everytime a Greek say these stuff... Toskali feels angry..
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Post by ErmirI on May 15, 2009 15:11:55 GMT -5
Don't put me on same level with the Turkish boy. I am an Albanian patriot, not a disillusioned Turkish lover. I am half cham half korcar. My family has background from all 4 religions (my cam dad 3/4 muslim 1/4 orthodox, my Korcare mom 1/2 orthodox, 1/4 catholic, 1/4 bektashi). No one is religious in my family and I myself have been baptized as a Catholic 7 years ago. I despise modern Turks as much as some Greeks like Arxileas. I have two Greek friends on Facebook and more in other forums. They behave as modern European citizens, not like the Turkorthos here.
Modern Turk society is only going back to the ottoman metality. 2 of my school friends just came back from Turkey and they didn't have good experiences everytime they brought up Skenderbeu and Nene Tereza. Screw the ottoman mofos.
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Post by Kastorianos on May 15, 2009 16:19:55 GMT -5
Where are you from Epirus Ermir?
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Post by ngadhnjyesi on May 15, 2009 16:53:04 GMT -5
Why are people who have lost their marbles allowed to moderate these forums?
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Post by todhrimencuri on May 15, 2009 19:10:47 GMT -5
I dont give a s**t as to why they dont like Muslims. Let them. I praise what Turkey did to them. Albs and Turks will forever be brothers. if you go to Tirana and ask the average Alb how they feel about Turqia, youll get the same response. And Nene Tereza was a s**t. And Ermir, two Albs have had a bad experience in Turkey? I bet their were Christians. Muslim Albs vacation in Turkey all the time. In fact, its one of the most choice spots for tourism for Albs (not just for Muslim, but generally all Albs, except for Catholics maybe ). I know about 35 people who have traveled there in the past 5 years and loved it. I have family members who went to Istanbul regularly because they loved the environment. In fact, for many Albs, Istanbul is like a second home. ;D www.forumishqiptar.com/showthread.php?t=105557
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Post by todhrimencuri on May 15, 2009 19:16:15 GMT -5
Albania: The Last Ottoman Outpost in the Balkanswww.todayszaman.com/tz-web/detaylar.do?load=detay&link=152757Being a Turk here gives you some privileges. In every part of the country; people show us great respect when they learn that we come from Turkey. They do not show the same respect to other nationalities.Albania is a Muslim country. And some of you need to grasp this fact. ;D
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on May 15, 2009 20:59:32 GMT -5
Amen..At least some Albs speak the truth.. Melty has the balls to say it like it really is while the others are looking for an identity they never had or ever will have.
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Post by monsterofsouli on May 15, 2009 22:50:26 GMT -5
Korcar is the man. I don't want him to leave.
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Post by ngadhnjyesi on May 16, 2009 0:35:44 GMT -5
Korcar is the man. I don't want him to leave. Wrong thread Motra. Kudos to Melty for standing up for all the TurchiAlbanesi. I think your nick should be "Yatagan" instead
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Post by Kastorianos on May 16, 2009 2:36:57 GMT -5
Theodorakis is just provoking...needs some attention and excitement....we know this game already.... it gets boring, dont you have anything new for us Theodore?
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Post by todhrimencuri on May 16, 2009 2:47:44 GMT -5
Who says Im trying to provoke? I didnt post a single thing up there that I do not mean with all my heart. If you guys want to play the "name"-game go ahead. Im not the only Alb born to a Muslim descended family with a "European" Christian name. Its an unfortunate common occurrence in Albania. Look up Ana Hoxha.
Canaris, your partly right. Its mostly the fault of Communist era "Historiography", which redefined history as they saw it. The sad thing is many Albanians do not want to look at reality. Just recently I was having a discussion about Cerciz Topulli with another Alb, and he used the commi era film "Liberty or Death" as a source for his life. Its sad and pathetic. What is worse, if anyone comes along and contradicts these perceptions, they are shunned, attacked, insulted and degraded. By telling Albs that the "Pelasgo" theories were BS, I immediately saw my mother called a slut, with threats of her rape being thrown at me, the threat of the rape of a sister which I dont have infront of my eyes.
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Post by shejtani on May 16, 2009 3:03:11 GMT -5
We could say exactly the same thing about Thesaloniki ... Greeks were not the majority of the population, but now they are because Turks and a lot of Bulgarians/ Slavic Macedonians and Jexs left it.
The thing is that Greece and Turkey agreed on that ... Turks and Greeks agreed, but Bulgarians/Slavic Macedonians, Albanians, Armenians, Jews had nothing to do with that ...
And if you want to speak about the architecture etc ... yes Berat and Gjirokastër are considered as typically ottoman town (speaking about architecture) ... and Ottoman architecture has a lot of influences: Greek, Arab, Persian, Asian ...
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Post by todhrimencuri on May 16, 2009 3:03:52 GMT -5
Oh and I just wanted to add, the author is wrong. My cousin traveled around Izmir and told me that she ran into a number of Albanian speaking villages around the area. Many still have strong memories of Albania (the earliest ones were from southern Albania, the later ones from Kosova and Macedonia). One of the mayors of the city came from this group (Ahmet Prishtina)
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Post by todhrimencuri on May 16, 2009 5:10:54 GMT -5
Korcar is the man. I don't want him to leave. Wrong thread Motra. Kudos to Melty for standing up for all the TurchiAlbanesi. I think your nick should be "Yatagan" instead Thank you brother! Check below my avatar. ;D
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Post by Kastorianos on May 16, 2009 6:22:01 GMT -5
what a bunch of defiant hypocrites...
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Post by epiroti on May 16, 2009 11:38:47 GMT -5
Toskali, it would probably be a good idea if you opened a thread explaining your views on albo-turkish relations and on the reasoning behind your feelings. There are too many assumptions being made by almost everyone in here. You're about to become a history graduate, so you definetly will have many good points. And if logic takes us to the conclusion that we owe the turks gratitude to the extent you speak of, than let it be so, and fvck the opinion of others. However, I'm personally feeling sick of this 'muslim brothers' b.s. - not because I am afraid we won't be accepted by many of our neighbours, but to the contrary, basing alliances on religion to me sounds like speaking to a bunch of pakistani tribesmen. Anyway, that's if you can be bothered to write out your views.
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Post by Kassandros on May 16, 2009 11:52:08 GMT -5
shejtani "We could say exactly the same thing about Thesaloniki ... Greeks were not the majority of the population, but now they are because Turks and a lot of Bulgarians/ Slavic Macedonians and Jexs left it." ------------------------------------------------------- ... Greeks were not the majority in Thessaloniki? When? The only time Greeks were not the majority in the city was in 1821 when the Greek revolution started in South Greece and Turks started killing every Greek they found in the streets. Most of Greeks fled in the around villages and when things calmed down in 1823.. they came back. illyria.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=makedoniamacedonia&action=display&thread=2499The Greek population of Thessaloniki is there for the last 2,300 continoues years... Dont have an opinion if you dont know history.. seat down and listen. You gonna learn something.
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Post by todhrimencuri on May 16, 2009 14:19:08 GMT -5
Toskali, it would probably be a good idea if you opened a thread explaining your views on albo-turkish relations and on the reasoning behind your feelings. There are too many assumptions being made by almost everyone in here. You're about to become a history graduate, so you definetly will have many good points. And if logic takes us to the conclusion that we owe the turks gratitude to the extent you speak of, than let it be so, and fvck the opinion of others. However, I'm personally feeling sick of this 'muslim brothers' b.s. - not because I am afraid we won't be accepted by many of our neighbours, but to the contrary, basing alliances on religion to me sounds like speaking to a bunch of pakistani tribesmen. Anyway, that's if you can be bothered to write out your views. Im not going to excuse my self by devoting a topic as if personal feelings need somehow to be explained, even though I do respect you, Epirote. Im an Atheist so obviously the whole Islam issue doesnt work well for me either, especially since I have never once in my life been inside a mosque (though I have been in a teqe). If I post this islamic crap its mostly to provide "another side" of the reality many others here are throwing out. Why do I feel the way I do though, I dunno, I just do. I mean asnji here nuk kam digju nji Turk duke shar shqiptaret sic i shan Ermali Turqet. Per kundrasi, kur i them qe jam Shqiptare, ato gjithmone me japin doren me qef. Ato e kan njohur pavarsine e Kosoven, na kan ndimuar kunder Greqine. Ne pergjithsi, vetem te mira kan bere. Por ama, un besoj se tani, Shqiptaret "pro-perendirore" kan frike se si do duken po te jen miq/vllezer me nji popul muslimane. Prandaj, nga qe duan te largohen, e shajn pa arsyrje kur ato kan 100x me shume te mira per Shqiptarin dhe Shqiptaret sesa Nene Tereza dhe imaxhin e saj. Tani ne fakt kjo miqsi ka nji ane fetare. Dihet kjo. Por un them se kjo eshte realitet per Shqiperine. Ne fund te fundit, jemi nji popul muslimane. I have a story that happened a years days ago. My dad was driving with near near the highway around our home, and, truth be told, we were speeding. A cop pulled us over. The god asked for my dad's ID, looked at his name and then asked him "Are you Greek?", my dad at that point got a little worried since he thought the cop was of that ethnic background and what would happen if he told him he was Alb. Nevertheless, he responded "No, Im Albania." At that point the cop smiled, revealed he was Turkish and said " well in that case then go on ahead." The cop shook my dads hand, and mine, went in his cop car, drove off and we left as well. I think it was around that period I started to realize what ethnic kinship is.
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on May 16, 2009 15:15:28 GMT -5
What a bunch of baloney.... I have helped Turks,Albanians and Bulgarians... I have never felt a 'kinship' with any of them... just felt closer to them being from the same geographical area and that I along with them came to the new land....
I have always helped Albanians more than anyone else... simply felt something there because of YOU guys here...
Melty..you are young... you have a lot to learn and I don't mean school stuff...
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Post by epiroti on May 16, 2009 15:29:21 GMT -5
Thanks for being sincere, and tellings the real motives why your beliefs are how they are, i.e. based on personal experience. I respect that fact that you didn't try to rationalise feelings with pseudo-logic and debates on the level of our nation's history.
This is a forum of nearly-zero importance, so you don't really have to be diplomatic with your answers, nor construct perfect arguments. Prandj besoi se ti je tue prdor fejn pr te nevrkosr nje grup te vecant lexuesish (ndyshime ne shkrim thjesht qe mos te na kuptojn ca parazita).
I agree with you that Albanians in Albania - those who have travelled around - like the Turks more than, say, our southern neighbours or other europeans. This obviously based on the way that they treat us when we visit their country, and for their political stance on important Albanian national issues. (sidenote to the greeks reading this: it is only for these reasons we like the turks, there's no muslim brotherhood motive, nor ottoman nostalgia, or whatever else your ego likes to insert here; if anything, there's a belief that they held us back from cultural development in the middle ages).
And the above are not motives to be disregarded. I just thought that you were basing your opinions on other reasons or historical facts.
The qe feja eshte nje pjese e ekuacionit qe nuk mohoet. E drejte, por jan ata qe na duan per arsye te fese, kurse ne i respektojm dhe i duam si rezultat te gjerave te lart-permendura. Lind pyetja: sikur ata te dinin se sa fetar/mysliman jemi ne, a do te na respektonin aq shume?! Dicka tjeter: une mendoj se ata kane opinion te larte per ne sepse kujtojn se kemi qene aleat "shpirteror" me ata ne kohen otomane (this is my assumption), kur e verteta eshte se te qenit mercenar ishte dicka qe perputhej me shume faktor socio-ekonomike te popullit tone. Sikur ata ta dinin qe ne s'kemi asnje nostalgji per ate perandorine e tyre, a do na donin njesoj? E dine ata qe Skenderbeu eshte nje figure kombetare qe ndoshta ngjall ndjenja me te forta se fjalet 'jezus, zote, etj' (te pakten per njerezit e shkolluar)?
I was about to write down some thoughts on how european we Albanians are (apart from the geographical meaning), but I fear it would open a long debate for which I don't have time. But I am of the opinion you are rushing when you write that we are not european (in culture). Mund te jemi pak mbrapa ne organizimin politik, por kjo nuk eshte gje kur konsideron kushtet qe e kane kushtezuar kete situate - ndarje territorjale, izolim komunist i pakrahasuar, shtypje kulturore nga turqit, etj. In essence, our culture has a great amount of virtues that european writers are in love with, and of which I am personally very proud of. The KLA fought a 'cleaner' war than their adversaries. No suicide bombers like the arabs use. Religious tolerance. The Albanian government has been very fair to our neighbours (yes, it has tolerated far more than it should have to the greek demands, but what do you expect from Berisha and Nano theifs). So when you "polish off the dust" from our culture, we are more european than middle-eastern. So what if Berat has ottoman architecture, and that the albanian language has some turkish words in it?! We must prioritise when categorising our culture.
Anyway, my point was that one should not rush into saying that we aren't europeans, because of religion, or whatever other reason. Even though my thoughts above weren't structured in the best possible way.
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