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Post by ilirdardani on Apr 1, 2008 19:11:33 GMT -5
Albanians being expelled from Belgrade in 1912
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Post by vinjak on Apr 1, 2008 20:05:38 GMT -5
Surrendered/captured troops from the first Balkan war.
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Post by Duke John on Apr 1, 2008 23:01:15 GMT -5
Surrendered/captured troops from the first Balkan war. o yea? would you like to tell us more about this?
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Post by Sh1 Shonić on Apr 2, 2008 4:17:21 GMT -5
Surrendered/captured troops from the first Balkan war. o yea? would you like to tell us more about this? No problem. You have lost (we won). ;D
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Post by Pejoni on Apr 2, 2008 4:29:14 GMT -5
o yea? would you like to tell us more about this? No problem. You have lost (we won). ;D Is that so, winning gives you the right to expell the other ethnicity... I dont recall Serbia won the last war? Should we do the same?
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Post by Sh1 Shonić on Apr 2, 2008 4:36:08 GMT -5
No problem. You have lost (we won). ;D Is that so, winning gives you the right to expell the other ethnicity... I dont recall Serbia won the last war? Should we do the same? It says Albanian (soliders). Was not given if they are from Serbia or Albania. And where do you see a word expelled (except from the topic name)? Those are war prisoners. Do you see where they were taken?
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Post by ilirdardani on Apr 2, 2008 6:55:27 GMT -5
It doesn't have to be given. Close to a hundred thousand (or more) Albanian lived in Beograd before those wars and before they were expelled. (either to turkey or kosovo, some even to albania)
Same thing happened all over Serbia, including Nis, which had lots of 90% Albanian majority villages, that were entirely expelled. (ethnic cleansing)
I'll just give you info on the village that my father is from, Svirc (close to Medvegja), on which during the 1950s and 1960s, there were around 5000 Albanians living there and in the late 1960s, almost every family was expelled, including my grandfather with his family (brothers, sisters, etc), and to this day only about a 100 people remain there. We have the paperwork that we own the land, and we have graves there, so at least we didn't lose ties to it. (unlike the people from Nis and Beograd)
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Post by Sh1 Shonić on Apr 2, 2008 7:33:52 GMT -5
It doesn't have to be given. Close to a hundred thousand (or more) Albanian lived in Beograd before those wars and before they were expelled. (either to turkey or kosovo, some even to albania) Same thing happened all over Serbia, including Nis, which had lots of 90% Albanian majority villages, that were entirely expelled. (ethnic cleansing) Do you have any source for that. Could you share it with us?
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Apr 2, 2008 9:38:51 GMT -5
Vin is right; the picture is that of Albanian volunteers who were captured during the fightings in 1912. In their midst you also have Azem Galica, who later on escaped and returned to Kosova, ca 1915.
God knows the horrors experienced by those brave souls in Belgrade.
As for Albanians in Belgrade; this city had all kind of minorities during the 19th century and earlier. The emerging of the Serbian state cleansed all non-Serbian elements, and Albanians were affected as well. The region where we comprised a compact and sizeable number was however the region between Nis and Kosova. In the late 1870s, some 60,000-100,000 Albanians were ruthlessly expelled. Most of them settled in the plains of Eastern Kosova and were known as muhaxhir (refugees).
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Post by ilirdardani on Apr 2, 2008 13:32:33 GMT -5
Or Muhagjeret. (we called the Bugujevci family (big one) by that name in Fushe Kosova)
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Apr 2, 2008 13:50:47 GMT -5
Po. Mjaft familje në Fushën e Kosovës (pra, Kosova lindore, jo vetëm Fushë Kosova pranë Prishtinës) janë familje "muhaxhere" me prejardhje nga njerëz që u detyruan të ikin nga vendi që sot quhet "Serbi jugore", si p.sh. familjet Bogujevci, Bunjaku, Nishliu etj.
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Post by osmano on Apr 2, 2008 14:36:25 GMT -5
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Apr 2, 2008 14:44:38 GMT -5
Thanks fo posting the article Alija. It speaks for itself.
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Post by vinjak on Apr 2, 2008 17:09:21 GMT -5
I dont really know if it speaks for itself while there is no doubt paramillitarys ran amok in Kosovo and many where killed/butchered by them the article I think is a huge exageration and a propaganda piece. you only have to look who wrote the article,hungary that basicaly says it all. And there is no proof whatsoever just a headline "SAY HUNGARIAN REPORTS"
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Apr 2, 2008 17:19:14 GMT -5
Vin
The same reports were made by various contemporary correspondents; Danish, English, Austrian and American newspapers all reported the same thing. Perhaps the Austrians, it can be argued, had a bias, but the same cannot be said about the others. Even Serbs, like Dimitrije Tucovic,described the horrors committed by the Serbian army! Infact, the above article doesn't do justice to what occured, as it doesn't cover all the crimes that were perpetrated.
And it wasn't just "paramilitaries" running amok. It was amazing how the Serbian military leaders, during the retreat through the Albanian mountains 1915, succeeded in maintaining discipline amidst its soldiers out of fear of provoking the Albanians (the Serbian army was very exhausted and thus exposed & vulnerable to any organized attack).
P:s Did not touch your post. Just accidentally pessed "modify".
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Post by vinjak on Apr 2, 2008 17:51:01 GMT -5
The same reports were made by various contemporary correspondents; Danish, English, Austrian and American newspapers all reported the same thing
Ok but did they do there reports from Hungarian claims ?
Even Serbs, like Dimitrije Tucovic,described the horrors committed by the Serbian army!
There is no doubt whatsoever that atrocitys of the gravest kind occured and I am not trying whatsoever to hide/deny/argue against what we all know is the truth, my only concern is the extent that biased reporting led the charge to misrepresent the actual truth as we both agree that the Austrians had an agenda to exagerate.
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Apr 3, 2008 8:26:06 GMT -5
They oftenly had their own correspondents present. One journalist from the Danish newspaper Riget was for instance present at the time, and despite having pro-Serb bias, he reported the very same thing as the above article. Even the Serbs themselves acknowledged what had occured, such as Tomic or Tucovic and others.
Yet they weren't the only ones to conclude the same thing. As I said, even Serbs acknowledged the horrors. Tomic, a former secretary of Nikola Pasic, described how everything was devestated between Peja and Prizren (where he travelled). Tucovic reported that tens of thousands of Albanians had been massacred. Serbian officers and soldiers openly bragged about their deeds. There is nothing "exaggerated" in that Hungarian report, since there was a wide consensus among the international correspondents when it came to the nature of the Serbian operations 1912-13.
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Post by julius on Apr 3, 2008 17:49:10 GMT -5
Jo po perpiqu te mos i urresh pastaj plehrat.
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Post by ILIRI I MADH on Apr 4, 2008 1:15:24 GMT -5
I dont really know if it speaks for itself while there is no doubt paramillitarys ran amok in Kosovo and many where killed/butchered by them the article I think is a huge exageration and a propaganda piece. you only have to look who wrote the article,hungary that basicaly says it all. And there is no proof whatsoever just a headline "SAY HUNGARIAN REPORTS" Hmm i think it says NEW YORK TIMES there!
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Apr 4, 2008 12:31:35 GMT -5
Hungarian report way better than any serbian report .....
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