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Post by engers on Jun 30, 2009 2:58:58 GMT -5
New book; The Battle of Kosovo 1389: An Albanian Epic by Anna di Lellio with translations by Robert Elsie (Author) The Battle of Kosovo of 1389 holds enormous significance in the formation of modern Balkan nation states, especially among South Slav and Serbian nationalist circles. What has given this single battle such resonance, even more than six centuries later, and what does it reveal about the complex tangle of identity in the contemporary Balkans? Robert Elsie's beautiful new translation brings a little-known Albanian epic account of the battle between the Ottoman Sultan Murat I and a coalition of Balkan forces brilliantly to life. The fantastic tale of Murat's campaign in Kosovo and his assassination by the Albanian knight Millosh Kopiliq is more often presented from the Serb perspective, which extols particularly the valor of the Serbian knight Milos Obilic. By proposing an alternative narrative, 'The Battle of Kosovo 1389' offers a more nuanced understanding of this powerful myth of nationalism and belonging. Anna Di Lellio's sensitive commentary explores the significance of this epic poem and of the battle more generally in post-war Kosovo in reinforcing a collective identity that emphasizes resistance against foreign oppression and identifies strongly with a European, predominantly Christian culture. 'The Battle of Kosovo 1389' is an important addition to our understanding of the past, present and future of this complex Balkan nation as well as the broader issues of national memory and identity. www.amazon.co.uk/Battle-Kosovo-1389-Albanian-Epic/dp/1848850948
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donnie
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Post by donnie on Jun 30, 2009 3:05:03 GMT -5
Interesting book.
I think what sets this battle apart from others is the assasination of the Sultan. Even though it didn't win the battle for the Christians, such a feat was still heroic. Otherwise, there are many who consider Marica to have been far more devastating to the medieval Serbs than Kosova.
Not to mention the total exaggeration of the battle's importance by Serbian historiography.
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Post by EriTopSheqeri on Jun 30, 2009 5:11:12 GMT -5
Hehehe Anna di Lellio...the most despised Italian by the servs...she writes plenty of articles in both Italian and English
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Lib-Fier
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Post by Lib-Fier on Jun 30, 2009 8:56:58 GMT -5
ohhh Snap! the dude that killed the sultan was an albo?
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Jun 30, 2009 11:53:56 GMT -5
ohhh Snap! the dude that killed the sultan was an albo? yep .... and bcs of that one act of sultan being gutted .... you have Islam pushed on all people that took part in that battle ...(the Hungarians took their dead and went home) ... albs and bosnians took the hit .....Serbian Vuk brankovic drank coffee with ottomans watching Alb blood being spilled History will Correct itself and eventually show none of todays serbs took part in that they can make all the fairy tale videos on youtube they want it wont help their fake history
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Post by srbobran on Jun 30, 2009 13:04:29 GMT -5
Prove it.
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Post by leshte on Jun 30, 2009 13:42:41 GMT -5
We don't need to. The woman who's writing the book needs to.
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Post by srbobran on Jun 30, 2009 14:05:04 GMT -5
LOL.Here I thought this was gonna be historical (my bad, I should have read this more carefully) but she's bringing up Albanian epic poetry and myth. Well in that case, Serbian epic poetry and myth should be regarded as true as well. I had the thought that this book was actually going to prove something but instead its just a translation of some poems.
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sojourner01
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Post by sojourner01 on Jun 30, 2009 14:37:59 GMT -5
I would like to recommend my YouTube video, for those yet to watch it,'Serbian Nationalism and the Kosovo Myth', on my channel @ www.youtube.com/mynextstopkraljevoI'm a recent History graduate of the University of Derby, England, class of 2008. I excelled in the study of cultural identities, in particular identity in the former Yugoslavia. My video summarizes the Kosovo Myth's relevance 1389 to c. 1920, taking an impartial academic approach without passing comment or judgement. I hope the video adds to your existing knowledge, and adds to this forum.
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Jun 30, 2009 20:02:13 GMT -5
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Post by engers on Jul 1, 2009 1:49:54 GMT -5
‘Beteja e Kosovës’ ngujohet në Beograd Në Prishtinë u promovua libri “The Battle of Kosovo 1389 – an Albanian epic”, i përgatitur nga Ana Di Lelio. Kopjet e librit nuk kanë arritur ende në Prishtinë pasi që qëndrojnë të ngujuara në Beograd. Nga Alfred Beka më 30.06.2009 në ora 18:30 “N’Fushë Kosovë Murati i parë, kamturqisht rrin fitimtarë. Prej Drenice del një djalë, fluturon mbi kalë të bardhë, mespërmes i bjen ushtrisë, shkon e i falet naltmadhnisë. Tungjatjeta naltmadhni, jam një arbër vendali, shpata jote nuk u theka, hovi yt prapë s’u ktheka, kurrë ma mirë ti s’ke dhanë provë sesa sot në Fushë Kosovë. Jam ardhë pa vonue ta puth dorën me t’nerue. Zgjatët mbreti i jep kamën, ngrihet djali i ban gjamën, mik pa thirrë ki ardh prej Azie n’Dardani, me na marrë magjet e miellit, me na zanë hiset e diellit, gjithë ushtrinë e paq me shnet, kjo Arbni ka bijt e vet, ta vej kryet maje kapices, jam Miroshi prej Drenicës, mbret e krajl shpesh gabohen, t’bijtë e Arbnit nuk poshtohen”. Kështu, sipas kësaj kënge epike, vargjet e së cilës i recitoi aktori dhe politikani Lirak Çelaj, i ka thënë Millosh Kopiliqi Sulltan Muratit pak para se ta vriste. Kjo është njëra prej tetë këngëve epike që janë përfshirë në librin “The Battle of Kosovo 1389 – an Albanian epic” (Beteja e Kosovës 1389 – një epikë shqiptare), i cili u promovua të hënën mbrëma në kafe-librarinë Dit’ e Nat’ në Prishtinë, edhe pse asnjë libër nuk ndodhej në tavolinë. Ana Di Lelio, autore e librit, tregoi arsyen pse nuk ndodhej asnjë libër. Ajo tha se botuesi i ka dërguar librat me Fedex në Beograd dhe Beogradi i ka bllokuar. Ajo shprehu bindjen se ky bllokim të jetë i përkohshëm dhe tha se do ta kemi shumë shpejt librin. Më pas ajo shpjegoi se si është përgatitur ky libër si dhe i falënderoi bashkëpunëtorët që e kanë ndihmuar. “Libri “The Battle of Kosovo 1389 – an Albanian epic” është koleksion i tetë këngëve në shqip për Betejën e Kosovës. Përkthimi në anglisht është nga Robert Elsie dhe ka një ese timen si parathënie. Me këtë libër unë nuk mendoj të propozoj një lloj historie të vërtetë të Betejës së Kosovës. Unë dëshiroj të diskutoj disa fakte për Betejën e Kosovës që janë pak a shumë të panjohura” tha Di Lelio. Ajo theksoi se është e vërtetë që Princ Llazari dhe Sulltan Murati janë vrarë atje. Sipas saj, gjithashtu është e vërtetë se shqiptarët kanë luftuar në Fushë Kosovë kundër ushtrisë otomane para 620 viteve. “Dokumentet e ndryshme zbulojnë këto fakte si dhe që Sulltan Murati është vrarë nga ushtari i krishterë Kobila, Kopiliq ose Kobiloviq. Askush nuk e di sigurisht kombësinë e Kopiliqit nëse ishte shqiptar ose serb ose hungarez. Sipas Noel Malcolm ai ishte hungarez. Për mua është më e rëndësishme për të kuptuar pse shqiptarët besojnë se Kopiliq ishte shqiptar ndërsa serbët besojnë që Obiliq ishte serb. Emri Obiliq është shpikur nga historianët nacionalistë serbë në shekullin e tetëmbëdhjetë”, shtoi Di Lelio. Ajo tha gjithashtu se këto rrëfime janë shumë të rëndësishme për të krijuar hapësirë për debat rreth përvojave të ndryshme të historisë shqiptare, e cila, siç u shpreh ajo, është shumë e pasur dhe komplekse. www.gazetaexpress.com/index.php/artikujt/lexo/10511/C6/C21/
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bato2
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Post by bato2 on Jul 1, 2009 4:26:39 GMT -5
very interesting indeed Look this painting dedicated to the battle of Kosovo by Uros Predic look the shield down to the left.Is a Albanian seal of double headed black eagle in a red shield
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Lib-Fier
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Post by Lib-Fier on Jul 1, 2009 4:32:15 GMT -5
it sure is! i think that this combined with what the author of the book is saying are conclusive proofs that albanians played a central role in the battle of kosovo and serbs just tagged along, henceforth this battle shall be known as the albanian battle of Kosovo...with some serb observers.
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Post by ilirdardani on Jul 1, 2009 6:37:30 GMT -5
^ Exactly, but the Serbs have been successful in changing history, books etc, lying about their past and basically destroying our history as much as they can. Remember there were hundreds of thousands of Albanians in Serbia all the way up to Belgrade, yet if you ask a Serb, he'll tell you that all Albanians immigrated to Kosovo from Albania. (which is the other way around, massive movement from Serbia, Kosovo to Albania, Turkey, etc)
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Post by SKORIC on Jul 1, 2009 10:27:34 GMT -5
hehe you guys are classics
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Jul 3, 2009 5:01:11 GMT -5
Është historiani serb Dragutin Kostic, i cili në publikimin francez "Revue Internationale des etudes balkaniques" 1935, I, faqe 232-254 , e pranon se emri Millosh nuk haset para shekullit 13-të tek familjet prominente (princërish) serb.
Sipas F. Mikloshicit ( Etym Worterb. ..) emri "kopil" nuk i përket sllavishtes, por e jep me origjine iliro-shqiptare, që do të thotë "i menqur". Cuditrisht Kostici , edhe pse serb, edhe ai ia atribon emrin e parë të heroit , pra emrin "Millosh" origjinën iliro-shqiptare. Tjetër, historiani kroat Duje Rendic-Miosevic i evidenton shumë qartë disa fjalë të vjetra kroate që kanë origjinë ilire: Licca,Pleto(Illirisht = Liccavus, Pletor, dhe shumë të tjera fjalësh (shih D.Rendk-Miocevic : "Prilog proucavanju nase ranosredovjecne onomastike", Starohervatska prosvjeta, ser.III.1949,1.faqe 9-21).
Mendohet, sipas Kosticit serb, se emri Millosh , që është prezent me të madhe tek serbet pas shek. të 14-të, është huazuar nga shqipja, sepse nuk gjendet në asnjë dokument serb para shekullit të 13-të, duke e argumentuar me sufiksat e shqipes "osh" dhe "ush" duke iu bashkangjitur mbiemrave (adjevtiveve) : mir-mirosh;bardh-bardhosh; kuq-kuqalosh; vogel - voglush. Keta sufiksa hasen edhe tek emrat, si: Belush,Tanush,Mirush, etj. Êshtë e qartë se Kostici i referohet edhe hostorianit të njohur Elezovic.
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Post by shkodrani on Jul 4, 2009 15:35:51 GMT -5
Është historiani serb Dragutin Kostic, i cili në publikimin francez "Revue Internationale des etudes balkaniques" 1935, I, faqe 232-254 , e pranon se emri Millosh nuk haset para shekullit 13-të tek familjet prominente (princërish) serb. Sipas F. Mikloshicit ( Etym Worterb. ..) emri "kopil" nuk i përket sllavishtes, por e jep me origjine iliro-shqiptare, që do të thotë "i menqur". Cuditrisht Kostici , edhe pse serb, edhe ai ia atribon emrin e parë të heroit , pra emrin "Millosh" origjinën iliro-shqiptare. Tjetër, historiani kroat Duje Rendic-Miosevic i evidenton shumë qartë disa fjalë të vjetra kroate që kanë origjinë ilire: Licca,Pleto(Illirisht = Liccavus, Pletor, dhe shumë të tjera fjalësh (shih D.Rendk-Miocevic : "Prilog proucavanju nase ranosredovjecne onomastike", Starohervatska prosvjeta, ser.III.1949,1.faqe 9-21). Mendohet, sipas Kosticit serb, se emri Millosh , që është prezent me të madhe tek serbet pas shek. të 14-të, është huazuar nga shqipja, sepse nuk gjendet në asnjë dokument serb para shekullit të 13-të, duke e argumentuar me sufiksat e shqipes "osh" dhe "ush" duke iu bashkangjitur mbiemrave (adjevtiveve) : mir-mirosh;bardh-bardhosh; kuq-kuqalosh; vogel - voglush. Keta sufiksa hasen edhe tek emrat, si: Belush,Tanush,Mirush, etj. Êshtë e qartë se Kostici i referohet edhe hostorianit të njohur Elezovic. Kopil mund te jet shqip Pidh Nane (Zog Kurve) ose Rumanisht Fmi Qart se ai emen asht ose Shqiptar ose Vllah
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rex362
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Post by rex362 on Jul 4, 2009 17:09:02 GMT -5
kopil esht turqe ....or more like slang in turkish ,but the whole balkans has borrowed it ..... Kopil=bastard child the turks nicknamed him kopil and all other albs and slavs involved ...the serbs just assumed it was his name when all it is in fact is an insult to him by turks and that it also rhymes with his real name Obili on top of that. Turkish word play/insult at same time--> Milosh Obili Kopili kopil/kopilovic ....the serbian fools at mythmaking again just by using Kopil-anything for our Albanian hero is appalling and more proof of serbian make believe in action ..and just simply caught with their pants down at rewriting history...again.. Kopil is an insult ...why would serbs use this ? --they use bcs when making lies upon lies you are bound to fumble somewhere. -Milosh Obili in alb ...._ -milos kopili in turkish to slander him bcs of his deed -milo kopilovic by the myth makers bcs they are confused ...................................................... after the gutting of sultan by Obili ...the top ottoman man made vow that all that took part in battle would become the bastard(kopils) children of the ottomans and would be Islamized as punishment.... so this one incident changed the religious face of Balkans.. hence Albanians and Bosnians are basically the only Muslims in Balkans and therefore the ones that took part in Battle of Kosova And imo or common sense if the Sultan was not murdered by Obili.Albanians and some slavs would not be Muslims today .
and forget the claim that conversion was a way to not pay taxes and all that other jargon bcs it only landed that way . ..just simply think ...500 years of ottoman empire ,if they wanted Muslims they would of Islamisized all slavs and greeks and even the rocks on the road if they wanted to... their business was empire not religion. I understand that being Muslim during that time did have advantages but again that just fell that way .....my great grandfather was once stated as saying "at least it helped our seed in not getting our woman raped by turks .... thats what I call real survivalists btw... the word Arnaut is also derogitory case closed ...History correcting itself in action by a simple village person named Rex
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Post by captainalbania on May 27, 2010 20:19:33 GMT -5
^ Actually Rex, the word Obilic is a Serbian invention of the 19th century. His name was (according to who's myth you use), either Milosh Kopilic or Milot Kopili.
Albanian origin of this guy seems quite obvious since the name Milosh is considered to be derived from Albanian Milot (as no other slavs use it, only Serbs). His surname is Kopili which in modern Albanian means bastard child, but in old Albanian probably would have meant child, as it does in Romanian today.
Perhaps he is why the Serbian name Milosh has entered into popular use, obviously their version of the Albanian name Milot.
I don't see this necessarily as a black and white issue. "Milosh" would have been in the service of the Seriban king at the time. Whether or not he was Albanian is irrelevant because at that time he was celebrated as a hero by both sides.
The only reason we are even arguing this is because as of 1912 we have had an ongoing "beef" with Serbs which continues to this day.
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Post by terroreign on Feb 2, 2011 20:13:29 GMT -5
very interesting indeed Look this painting dedicated to the battle of Kosovo by Uros Predic look the shield down to the left.Is a Albanian seal of double headed black eagle in a red shield ] lol you're such a bubble-head. That eagle is the coat of arms of the Orlovici dynasty, the Serb Kastrioti didn't exist yet back then Kakvi su ponizeni ova gamad ciganska, kenja mi se njihovog teskog zabluda
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