Post by ioan on May 28, 2008 4:16:32 GMT -5
The Baltic languages are a group of related languages belonging to the Indo-European language family and spoken mainly in areas extending east and southeast of the Baltic Sea in Northern Europe. The language group is sometimes divided into two sub-groups: Western Baltic, containing only extinct languages, and Eastern Baltic, containing both extinct and the two living languages in the group: Lithuanian (including both Standard Lithuanian and Samogitian) and Latvian (including both literary Latvian and Latgalian). While related, the Lithuanian, the Latvian, and particularly the Old Prussian vocabularies differ substantially from each other and are not mutually intelligible. The now extinct Old Prussian language has been considered the most archaic of the Baltic languages. Lithuanian and Latvian are two the most archaic and least changed of all the living Indo-European languages.
According to some scientists, the Baltic languages show closest relationship with the Slavic languages. Opinions vary, however, as to whether this relation is a result of a common ancestry or merely of geographic proximity.
So:
2.3. Thracian and Baltic
There are many Thraco-Baltic lexical parallels with similarities both in the stems and in the suffixes which impress greatly [See Thracisch-dakische Studien. I. Teil: Die thrakisch- und dakisch-baltischen Sprachbeziehungen. Balkansko ezikoznanie, XIII, 2, Sofia, 1969]. Here are some examples:
(VN - village name; PN - personal name; PlN - place name; RN - river name; FM - family name) Thracian Baltic
VN Batkúnion Lith. VN Batkunai
VN Clasus Latv. PlN Kalsi, Kals-strauts
VN Kpsela Lith. VN Kupliai
from kupslis 'a hillock'
VN Rumbo-dona Old-Pruss. PlN Rumbow (a ford),
Latv. ruba 'river rapids'
VN Sárt Lith. RN Sat
from satas 'bright-red'
VN Scretisca Lith. VN Skrtik
VN Strambai Old-Pruss. strambo 'a stubble-field'
Latv. VN Strobas
PN Sautes Old-Latv. FN Sautte
Latv. sautis 'a lazy man'
PN Skilas Lith. PN Skyl
PN Spark Old-Pruss. PN Sparke
midne 'a village' Latv. mtne 'a place of stay'
zibythides 'the noble Thracians' Lith. ibùt'a light; something shining'
VN Zburulus Lith. iburs'a light'
2.4. Thracian, Baltic and Slavic
It is not a surprise that there are some Slavic analogies to the Thraco-Baltic parallels. Baltic and Slavic and closely related and are sometimes grouped together in a Balto-Slavic group. Here are some parallels:
– the Thracian PN Brinkazis, Brinkainos, the Slavic PN Brzek, Brzeko (Polish), Brekoja (Bulg.) and the Lith. VN (from FN) Brinkikiai.
– the Thracian PN Kerss, Kersos, the Old-Pruss. PN Kerse, Kerso (from kéras 'on white and black spots'), and the Slavic PN rch (Czech) (from the Old-Slavic *rch), the Bulgarian Chernjo (from cheren 'black').
– the Thracian VN Kurpisos, the Lith. VN Kurpai, Kurpikai, etc., and the Bulgarian VN Krpec (from the Old-Slavic *krp-), the Russian korpat 'to dig up', the Ukrainian korpati 'to dig, to rummage'.
– the Thracian tribe name Trausoi is identical to the Old-Latv. FN Trousz from the Latv. traus 'friable', similar to the Lith. trauus 'friable, fragile' and the Old-Russian PN Truha, Trush, the Old-Russian tronh 'lazy, sad'.
– the first element in the Thracian VN Tarpo-dizos and the Lith. tárpas 'an interstice, an interspace' and the Church-Slavic trap, the Bulgarian trap 'a ditch, a pit' (from the Old-Slavic *trp).
members.tripod.com/~Groznijat/thrac/thrac_9.html
I was thinking:
If the Thracian language was related to Baltic (some describe it as south Baltic language) and Baltic is related to Slavic (sometimes reffered to as Balto-Slavic), we can suppose that Thracian was related to Slavic.
Also: In 570, Antonius Placentius said that in the valleys of Mount Sinai there was a monastery in which the monks spoke Greek, Latin, Syriac, Egyptian and Bessian.
The origin of the monasteries is explained in a mediaeval hagiography written by Simeon Metaphrastes, in Vita Sancti Theodosii Coenobiarchae in which he wrote that Saint Theodorius founded on the shore of the Dead Sea a monastery with four churches, in each being spoken a different language, among which Bessan was found.
So at least in 570 the Bessian was spoken (Bessy are Thracian tribe).
Could this means that when Slavs arrive in the Bolkans they found the Thracians speaking south Baltic language, related to Slavic? If thats the case could this mix produce the Bulgarian language (it has Slavic lexis, closely connected with Thracian lexis, BUT also it has grammer that is part of the Balkan language union and according to some comes from Thracians).
If we suppose that not all Thracians were Romanized and Hellenized, and some spoke that south Baltic related to Slavic language, could this mean the Thracian influence on our language (and culture) was greater than we thought before?
I dont wanna start a war, or say we are not desedants of Slavs and Bulgars (I think we deffinately are).
All I wanna say: could we consider the Slavic in us also as Thracian, if both languages were as close as Baltic is, to Slavic?
According to some scientists, the Baltic languages show closest relationship with the Slavic languages. Opinions vary, however, as to whether this relation is a result of a common ancestry or merely of geographic proximity.
So:
2.3. Thracian and Baltic
There are many Thraco-Baltic lexical parallels with similarities both in the stems and in the suffixes which impress greatly [See Thracisch-dakische Studien. I. Teil: Die thrakisch- und dakisch-baltischen Sprachbeziehungen. Balkansko ezikoznanie, XIII, 2, Sofia, 1969]. Here are some examples:
(VN - village name; PN - personal name; PlN - place name; RN - river name; FM - family name) Thracian Baltic
VN Batkúnion Lith. VN Batkunai
VN Clasus Latv. PlN Kalsi, Kals-strauts
VN Kpsela Lith. VN Kupliai
from kupslis 'a hillock'
VN Rumbo-dona Old-Pruss. PlN Rumbow (a ford),
Latv. ruba 'river rapids'
VN Sárt Lith. RN Sat
from satas 'bright-red'
VN Scretisca Lith. VN Skrtik
VN Strambai Old-Pruss. strambo 'a stubble-field'
Latv. VN Strobas
PN Sautes Old-Latv. FN Sautte
Latv. sautis 'a lazy man'
PN Skilas Lith. PN Skyl
PN Spark Old-Pruss. PN Sparke
midne 'a village' Latv. mtne 'a place of stay'
zibythides 'the noble Thracians' Lith. ibùt'a light; something shining'
VN Zburulus Lith. iburs'a light'
2.4. Thracian, Baltic and Slavic
It is not a surprise that there are some Slavic analogies to the Thraco-Baltic parallels. Baltic and Slavic and closely related and are sometimes grouped together in a Balto-Slavic group. Here are some parallels:
– the Thracian PN Brinkazis, Brinkainos, the Slavic PN Brzek, Brzeko (Polish), Brekoja (Bulg.) and the Lith. VN (from FN) Brinkikiai.
– the Thracian PN Kerss, Kersos, the Old-Pruss. PN Kerse, Kerso (from kéras 'on white and black spots'), and the Slavic PN rch (Czech) (from the Old-Slavic *rch), the Bulgarian Chernjo (from cheren 'black').
– the Thracian VN Kurpisos, the Lith. VN Kurpai, Kurpikai, etc., and the Bulgarian VN Krpec (from the Old-Slavic *krp-), the Russian korpat 'to dig up', the Ukrainian korpati 'to dig, to rummage'.
– the Thracian tribe name Trausoi is identical to the Old-Latv. FN Trousz from the Latv. traus 'friable', similar to the Lith. trauus 'friable, fragile' and the Old-Russian PN Truha, Trush, the Old-Russian tronh 'lazy, sad'.
– the first element in the Thracian VN Tarpo-dizos and the Lith. tárpas 'an interstice, an interspace' and the Church-Slavic trap, the Bulgarian trap 'a ditch, a pit' (from the Old-Slavic *trp).
members.tripod.com/~Groznijat/thrac/thrac_9.html
I was thinking:
If the Thracian language was related to Baltic (some describe it as south Baltic language) and Baltic is related to Slavic (sometimes reffered to as Balto-Slavic), we can suppose that Thracian was related to Slavic.
Also: In 570, Antonius Placentius said that in the valleys of Mount Sinai there was a monastery in which the monks spoke Greek, Latin, Syriac, Egyptian and Bessian.
The origin of the monasteries is explained in a mediaeval hagiography written by Simeon Metaphrastes, in Vita Sancti Theodosii Coenobiarchae in which he wrote that Saint Theodorius founded on the shore of the Dead Sea a monastery with four churches, in each being spoken a different language, among which Bessan was found.
So at least in 570 the Bessian was spoken (Bessy are Thracian tribe).
Could this means that when Slavs arrive in the Bolkans they found the Thracians speaking south Baltic language, related to Slavic? If thats the case could this mix produce the Bulgarian language (it has Slavic lexis, closely connected with Thracian lexis, BUT also it has grammer that is part of the Balkan language union and according to some comes from Thracians).
If we suppose that not all Thracians were Romanized and Hellenized, and some spoke that south Baltic related to Slavic language, could this mean the Thracian influence on our language (and culture) was greater than we thought before?
I dont wanna start a war, or say we are not desedants of Slavs and Bulgars (I think we deffinately are).
All I wanna say: could we consider the Slavic in us also as Thracian, if both languages were as close as Baltic is, to Slavic?