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Post by depletedreasons on Jun 5, 2008 4:35:19 GMT -5
Khans Honnish dynasty also changed the Turanian-Idelian calendar a little. The year Sember they ordered to call again the year Sychkan, the year Ugez by year Uger, a bull (in the Hunno-Bulgarian 'uger' means "bull" and "happy" ), the year Balyk by year Leu, a dragon, the year Und again by year Djelky, the year Kerpe by year Bichen, monkey, the year Teke again by year Koy. Khan Kurbat ordered Sychkan to be called again the Sember year, the year Uger by the Shegor - Syer year, the year Barys by the Burè year, the year Djelky by the Muren year, the year Koy by the year Teke. However the Bulgar people, as writes Kul Gali, preserved the calendar in this form: 1. Tychkan, 2. Ugez - Syer, 3. Barys, 4. Tavyshkam, 5. Balyk, 6. Djilan, 7. Djelky, 8. Koy, 9. Kerpe, 10. Tavyk, 11. Et, 12. Tajgas. www.s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/10_History/Djagfar_Tarihi/Volume2/DjagfarTarihiV2P8En.htm
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Rhezus
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Post by Rhezus on Jun 5, 2008 5:01:11 GMT -5
Novi means before year 681AD, before the Roman and the hellenistic period. The ancient ppl of Aimon Haemus. The ancient Thracians were a group of Indo-European tribes who spoke the extinct Thracian language - a scarcely attested branch of the Indo-European language family. Those peoples inhabited the Eastern, Central and Southern part of the Balkan peninsula, as well as the adjacent parts of Eastern Europe.
Thracians inhabited the ancient provinces of: Thrace, Moesia, Dacia, Scythia Minor, Bithynia, Mysia, Macedonia, Pannonia, and other regions on the Balkans and Anatolia. This area extends over most of the Balkans region, and the Getae north of the Danube as far as beyond the Bug. The branch of science that studies the ancient Thracians and Thrace is called Thracology.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thracians
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Rhezus
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Post by Rhezus on Jun 5, 2008 5:38:28 GMT -5
That calendar was also known as the Turanian-Idelian, which toghether with the speech, clearly points that Bulgars belonged to the turkic group of ppl. I've red some previous posts that Edlund and Besarab now try to impliment a new "instrument".. saying there's no prove bulgars believed in Tengri (or Tangra in slavic). I'm not surprized by the many theories made by certain Bulgarians - purpose: hiding the turkic connection.. So read here what's said about Tengri: " The author of this manuscript, unknown in Bulgaria until recently and kept in the greatest French and English libraries, is the famous Arab scholar El-Balhi (cir. 850). Here is what he says: It is interesting that all peoples have their own names for the Creator. The Arabs call Him Allah in the singular, and the other deities they call Illah; the Persians call Him Hormuz, Ized, Yazdan. In Zaratustra he is called Hormuz, but I have also heard the names Khod- Eht and Khod-Boreht, which means He-Himself. The Indians and the people of Sind (Pakistan) call him s**ta Vabit and Mahadeva. The Turkic people say Bir Tengri*, which means, There is one God." www.veda.harekrsna.cz/connections/Vedic-Bulgaria.php
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Post by Edlund on Jun 5, 2008 5:54:23 GMT -5
Khans Honnish dynasty also changed the Turanian-Idelian calendar a little. The year Sember they ordered to call again the year Sychkan, the year Ugez by year Uger, a bull (in the Hunno-Bulgarian 'uger' means "bull" and "happy" ), the year Balyk by year Leu, a dragon, the year Und again by year Djelky, the year Kerpe by year Bichen, monkey, the year Teke again by year Koy. Khan Kurbat ordered Sychkan to be called again the Sember year, the year Uger by the Shegor - Syer year, the year Barys by the Burè year, the year Djelky by the Muren year, the year Koy by the year Teke. However the Bulgar people, as writes Kul Gali, preserved the calendar in this form: 1. Tychkan, 2. Ugez - Syer, 3. Barys, 4. Tavyshkam, 5. Balyk, 6. Djilan, 7. Djelky, 8. Koy, 9. Kerpe, 10. Tavyk, 11. Et, 12. Tajgas. www.s155239215.onlinehome.us/turkic/10_History/Djagfar_Tarihi/Volume2/DjagfarTarihiV2P8En.htmThis is pure fantasy. I have no idea where those guys got this from. No quotation of sources. The 12 names have nothing to do with the names from the "Imennik".
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Post by Edlund on Jun 5, 2008 5:59:32 GMT -5
That calendar was also known as the Turanian-Idelian, which clearly points (toghether with their speech) that Bulgars belonged to the turkic group of ppl. That calendar has nothing to do with Bulgarians. Why didn't you post the whole quotation, ãîìíüî? This is what it says: The author of this manuscript, unknown in Bulgaria until recently and kept in the greatest French and English libraries, is the famous Arab scholar El-Balhi (cir. 850). Here is what he says: It is interesting that all peoples have their own names for the Creator. The Arabs call Him Allah in the singular, and the other deities they call Illah; the Persians call Him Hormuz, Ized, Yazdan. In Zaratustra he is called Hormuz, but I have also heard the names Khod- Eht and Khod-Boreht, which means He-Himself. The Indians and the people of Sind (Pakistan) call him s**ta Vabit and Mahadeva. The Turkic people say Bir Tengri, which means, There is one God. The Christians of Syria say Laha Raba Kuadussa. The Jews say in their Jewish language: Elohim Adonai or Ehie Asher Ehie. Elohim means god in their language. I heard the Bulgarians call the Creator with the name Edfu and when I asked them how they call their idol, they answered Fa. I also asked the Copts what is their name for the Creator. They answered Ahad Shanak. (M. Tahir, Le livre de la creation de el-Balhi. Paris, 1899, v. IV, p. 56).The author Petar Dobrev is known for false quotations and falsifications, so I generally don't believe him until I see the source. I've searched for this source, but was unable to find it. Anyway, if it's true, thån this author El-Balhi from 9th century clearly makes a distinctions between Turkic people and Bulgarians. À òè ñè àáñîëþòåí áîêëóê è ñëåäâàùèÿ òàêúâ ïîñòèíã ùå òè ãî òðèÿ.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 5, 2008 6:32:34 GMT -5
"Novi means before year 681AD, before the Roman and the hellenistic period. The ancient ppl of Aimon Haemus."
Thankyou Rhezus.
"Khans Honnish dynasty also changed the Turanian-Idelian calendar a little. The year Sember they ordered to call again the year Sychkan, the year Ugez by year Uger, a bull (in the Hunno-Bulgarian 'uger' means "bull" and "happy" ), the year Balyk by year Leu, a dragon, the year Und again by year Djelky, the year Kerpe by year Bichen, monkey, the year Teke again by year Koy."
Spirit what l'm saying to my good friends here is not to offend, l'm just saying what it is.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 5, 2008 6:47:06 GMT -5
This only took me one minute to find on the internet. The Slavs The Slavs spoke an Indo-European language, suggesting they were Aryan. They were polytheists, with shamans and belief in sacrificing creatures as gifts to the gods. The Slavs expanded in various directions from the plains north of the Black Sea. Moving northward, they followed rivers, passed through forests and mixed with Finns and Baltic peoples. From the 540s to the 580s they moved south into the Balkans - a part of Constantinople's empire - as far south as central Greece, and they approached Adrianople. Constantinople's Byzantine emperor, Maurice, who ruled from 582 to 602 and spent many years warring against them, wrote: The History of the Balkan Peninsula, by Ferdinand Schevill, 1922, p. 75. They have abundance of cattle and grain, chiefly millet and rye, but rulers they cannot bear and they live side by side in disunion. [note] Slavs in the Balkans have been also been described as "scores of dissociated tribes," living in villages, herding, farming and sharing as within a family. They fished, kept bees, made pottery and weaved baskets. Merchants from Constantinople and Thessalonica came and sold them jewelry, silks and spices and gave contact with Byzantine culture, including Christianity. Following the defeat of the Avars by Emperor Heraclius in the 620s, many Slavs broke free of Avar control. Some Slavs came under the authority of Avars, and some voluntarily or involuntarily joined the mounted Avar forces as infantry. Some Slavs moved farther west than others, to become known as Slovenes, Slovaks, Croats and Serbs. The Slavs mixed with people indigenous to the Balkans, except for those indigenous peoples who had fled to coastal and other areas hoping for imperial protection. Heraclius did what he could to protect these refugees and to win back control over the Balkans. He recovered Greece from Slavic control, but he felt compelled to grant Croats and Serbs settlement rights in the Balkan northwest, hoping they would guard the area from other incursions. The Creation of Bulgaria The Bulgars have been described as a Turkic people, speaking a language said to be related to that of the Huns, Khazars and Avars. They were a herding people rather than farmers - as were the people of Mongolia. The Bulgars had worked and fought their way westward from Asia, raiding for plunder in Constantinople's empire in the Balkans, during the rule of Justinian I, and then retreating. The Bulgars are described as having been under Avar domination. A man named Kubrat, Kuvrat or Kurt, meaning "Wolf," rose to prominence among the Avars and Bulgars. He had a Bulgar mother and an Avar father - males of a dominant people often taking women from among those they dominate. Kubrat grew up as a hostage in Byzantium. Between the years 630 and 635, in the Ukraine (north of Constantinople's empire), Kubrat, freed from captivity, organized a federation consisting of Avars and Bulgars - Onoguria. Within a few decades, Onoguria divided and some of the people from there moved together southward across the Danube River into the Byzantine Empire in the Balkans. According to a Byzantine chronicler this was the year 679. Constantinople was annoyed but busy warring against Muslim Arabs. The Bulgar invaders were under a military leader, or khan, and they behaved as conquerors had before them. They were uninterested in farming and made themselves lord and master over Slav farmers they came upon, exploiting peasant labor - a plunder with continuity. During the rule of the Byzantine Emperor Constantine V (741- 775) the Arab danger had abated, and Constantine felt free to attack the Bulgarians, but by now the Bulgarians had consolidated their power and were able to withstand his attacks. The warring lasted into the 800s, with Emperor Nicephorus against the khan named Krum. In 811, Khan Krum outwitted the Byzantines and trapped them in closed valleys, killing nearly all of them, including Emperor Nicephorus. Krum made a drinking cup of Nicephorus' skull - an object of pride during feasting with his captains. Krum harassed Thrace and laid siege to Constantinople in 813. People climbed their city's walls for a view of those they considered exotic barbarians. A description of the attackers survives. Krum offered sacrifices after the custom of his nation by slaughtering men [human sacrifice!] and cattle before the Golden Gate . He then washed his feet in the sea and performed his ablutions, after which he besprinkled the people crowding around to do him honor. Returning to his camp he passed through the array of his concubines who worshiped and glorified their lord.
Krum's appeals to his gods was to no avail. His army was unable to penetrate Constantinople's walls, and he had no fleet of ships to block Constantinople's contacts by sea. He returned to Thrace, whence he had come.
More Cultural Diffusion
As early as the 500s and 600s, Christianity had been spreading slowly and in bits and pieces from Byzantium to the Slavs in the Balkans, and by the 800s it was spreading to the Bulgars, despite their having considered Byzantium decadent. But the Bulgars also recognized Constantinople as advanced in civilization - as having writing, books and learning.
Living more than 200 years side by side with the Slavs, and intermarrying with them, the Bulgar's difference from the Slavs diminished (which may happen eventually between the Palestinians and Israelis). The Slavs had been more culturally advanced, and it was their alphabet and language that the Bulgars adopted. Bulgaria was organized and united to the degree that it became the first Slavic state on the Balkan peninsula worthy of being called a state.
The Bulgarian khan, Boris, adopted Christianity and opened Bulgaria to influences from Constantinople. And he sent one of his sons, Simeon, to be educated by the Byzantines. Simeon the Great and the Magyars
Simeon ruled Bulgaria from 893 to 927. He wanted to help his people advance culturally, and he helped in translating numerous books into the language of the Slavs. He also continued the tradition of his forefathers in opposing Constantinople as a power. Simeon held the title of emperor - tsar in his Slavic language. He wished to destroy that power in order to enhance the power and grandeur of his kingdom, and he was at war with Constantinople through most of his reign. Four times within eleven years Simeon advanced to Constantinople and attacked its walls, without success. To defend itself against Simeon, Constantinople, beginning in 917, supported a migrating Asiatic tribe, the Magyars, who had moved into Pannonia from Asia almost two decades earlier. Constantinople gave them gold and precious robes to encourage them to attack the Bulgarians from the rear. Constantinople urged Serbs to rebel against Simeon, and in 918 some did. For several years the Magyars raided Bulgaria in force. Simeon conquered Serbs outside of Bulgaria, or ravaged their lands, and he drove the Magyars from the Black Sea westward to the Hungarian plain where the Avars and Huns had successively settled before them.
www.fsmitha.com/h3/h05bulg.htm
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Rhezus
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Post by Rhezus on Jun 5, 2008 7:18:50 GMT -5
You're welcome. Nice article, I find it quite credible.
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Post by besarab on Jun 5, 2008 8:04:59 GMT -5
nova liubov-nov kusmet ;D
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Rhezus
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Post by Rhezus on Jun 5, 2008 8:46:56 GMT -5
Bozaarab... ;D Novi Pazar e otdavna v tozi forum, no javno ti ne si v chas mnogo. No nali drugo njama kakvo da kazesh sega i... A za men momicheta kolko shtesh, vaprosa e dali ti si vizdal zena skoro?!.. Neshto kat te gledam ti na muze maj nalitash..
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Post by Edlund on Jun 5, 2008 8:52:57 GMT -5
This only took me one minute to find on the internet. Great. Now you can masturbate on it.
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Post by depletedreasons on Jun 5, 2008 9:23:02 GMT -5
An inscription in Turkic runes from Sarkel (The Khazar Fortress meaning White Fortress in Turkish), apparently of Bolgar manufacture www.kroraina.com/pb_lang/suppl5.html"The Khazars originated from the distant East, from the border areas of China. In the seventh century, they were swept by the Great Migrations to the mouth of the River Volga and the shores of the Caspian Sea. Here the Khazars conquered Onogur and Bulgar-Turkic tribes who spoke another Turkic dialect. In the seventh and eighth centuries, this new empire halted Arab expansionism, established contact with Byzantium, and became a decisive force between the Caspian Sea and the River Don up to the middle of the tenth century. Land cultivation, animal husbandry and handicrafts flourished in the empire. Merchants traded not only with Byzantium, but also with the Arab-Persian world and the distant East. The kagans did not prohibit the activities of Christian and Moslem missionaries. Both religions maintained places or worship and schools on Khazar land. Out of political considerations, however, the kagans and their retinues embraced a third great monotheist religion, Judaism. This was to avoid pressure on them from the Byzantine Empire and the various Arab emirates. The peoples of the Khazar Khanate had a more advanced way of life than those of the Central Asian Turkic tribes, whose chief occupation was nomadic animal husbandry. The level of its agriculture and handicrafts industry matched contemporary European standards. In terms of commercial development it even exceeded them. However, the empire was a loosely organized entity, with the fluctuating numbers of subjugated peoples rather than fixed boundaries determining its size. The Magyar tribal alliance constituted one such subjugated people."- György Balázs, The Magyars. Budapest: Corvina, 1989 khazaria.tripod.com/
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Post by depletedreasons on Jun 5, 2008 9:26:20 GMT -5
7th century, Bulgar-Turkic. Height - 10.3 cm. From "The Pereschepin Horde" - Poltava, Ukraine. There were eleven of these in the horde. Hammered bowl with complex, welded foot. Bowl is decorated in relief hammered from the face inward. The ball in the middle of the foot is hollow and contains a bell. The bell would ring as the goblet was lifted. It is believed that this was not just to entertain but to drive away evil spirits. Currently at the State Hermitage Museum in Leningrad/St. Petersburg. Description from the Russian version of the Hermitage page.www.redkaganate.org/household/goblet_7c.shtml
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Post by besarab on Jun 5, 2008 10:39:11 GMT -5
A za men momicheta kolko shtesh, da -chuval sum i drugi pedalcheta da se hvaliat che imat mnogo jeni ;D
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Rhezus
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Post by Rhezus on Jun 5, 2008 12:44:14 GMT -5
Razbiram, ti imash problem s zenite.. tova mi stana savsem jasno. A za men nishto ne znaesh. Ne otklonjavai tazi taka vazna tema za teb sega, ami mlukni ako njama kvo da kazesh.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 6, 2008 1:22:34 GMT -5
"Nice article, I find it quite credible."
I'm not sure whether its 100% credible but hopefully it gives some indication.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Jun 6, 2008 1:23:39 GMT -5
"Great. Now you can masturbate on it."
lol - your a funny guy.
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Rhezus
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Post by Rhezus on Jun 6, 2008 7:19:52 GMT -5
Well, it's neutral and objective. I remember what I was learned in history classes in BG - as young boy. Glorifying stories.. So the indications are good.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Jun 6, 2008 7:52:32 GMT -5
Rhezus, even if the calendar had months, named with turkic words, that doesnt mean the bulgars were turkic. the calendar could ve been borrowed by the bulgars on their route from middle east through central asia to europe. How can we explain names like Asparuch, which means white rider in Persan? All I wanna say there is deffinately no centainty what ethnicity the Bulgars were.
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Rhezus
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Post by Rhezus on Jun 7, 2008 6:10:59 GMT -5
Haha... It was borrowed, indeed - from the Chinese.. but the words were written, in turkic by the bulgars. Did they borrowed that speech too?! You are as much confused and ashamed as most of BG historians. To hide or change true origing is imposible. There are always sources who reveal it. Read some names only of Dulo family tree to get the picture: Ayar, Bozok Chak-Chak, Koramdjes, Zuhra, Kermek, Azan Tukta, Suvar, Tat Utyag, Karadjam, Bunek Kanbikha, Dilyarekh, Zuhra Bug, Uruz Aslan, Krum Arya Aslan, Sabansh, Enravot.
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