Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on May 9, 2008 21:47:25 GMT -5
What about God asking Abraham to kill his son for Him?
I betcha it would have made for one uncomfortable relationship between father and son afterwards... I can see Abraham asking his son to go fishing with him..and his son replying...cautiously ...Thanks dad...but not today... not ever...
I believe it was a selfish act on God to test a father and his son...
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Post by yahadj on May 9, 2008 22:08:20 GMT -5
I bet you didn't get it. It was not meant to happen. It was a test of devotion. If the goal is eternal salvation what is the value of temporary life? God tested the strength of Abraham's faith regarding this life and afterlife... And as we all know he proved himself as one of the strongest belivers in Allah. His son Ishmael, too. He trusted his dad and Allah that nothing unjust would happen to him. Total submission to Allah and trust in his justice and mercy.
For Allah doesn't need humans to sacrify their children for him. He needs them to find the truth about the purpose of this life and the reality about the afterlife.
And that happens only by complete submitting to the will of God...
PEACE
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on May 10, 2008 0:58:05 GMT -5
Get serious Y.... everyone gets Abraham.... and the devotion thingy.... but you have to admit .... what was God thinking that day?
I guess you can say the same thing about the garden of Eden.... was it really an Eden..even tough it contained Satan...?
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Post by yahadj on May 10, 2008 9:18:08 GMT -5
Since God is putting the test, he would know the best. But I can see the hidden message, and it is that Allah wanted to prove Ibrahim that he is just, merciful and good. Allah wouldn't let him commit unjust things even for him. But with his obedience Ibrahim also proved his level of devotion- the highest a man can show. That made him a chosen person in the sight of Allah. Well, that is why Allah blessed this man as the first follower of monotheistic religion. That is why Allah blessed his progeny, as well. I don't doubt that after this incident Ibrahim never hesitated to follow any of the orders of Allah.
Two birds with one stone, eh?
PEACE
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Post by jerryspringer on May 10, 2008 9:29:02 GMT -5
God was a pervert. I'm glad he's dead. Satan is the future!
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Post by yahadj on May 10, 2008 9:34:00 GMT -5
Eden is not for sinners. But, there is no evidence that Satan was sinner until Adam and Eve came into the picture. They were all involved in a common sin after that. One by tempting others to sin and others by obeying him, thus disregarding the orders of Allah. In Qur'an it is mentioned that after Allah created Adam and Eve he asked all angels and Satan to bow in front of this superior creation. All angels did but Satan refused. Simply because he thought he was way superior than humans. He based it on the fact he was created from fire but humans from a "worthless" piece of mud. This was his major sin- questioning Allah for the superiority of his creation...
From this I understand that up to that moment Satan's superiority had never been challenged. It seems he had considered himself as the highest among creations including angels and nothing challenged his ego. But the creation of Adem and Eve changed that status quo. That led all of them out of the Paradise until the day of judgement.
PEACE
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Post by yahadj on May 10, 2008 9:36:26 GMT -5
God was a pervert. I'm glad he's dead. Satan is the future! No doubt your future is with the Satan... Everybody gets whatever they are longing for... PEACE
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Post by c0gnate on May 10, 2008 10:07:49 GMT -5
I long to see you in the morning light...
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Post by jerryspringer on May 10, 2008 10:25:30 GMT -5
Satan was not in debt to Allah. He doesn't have to serve him, or any of his creations. Moreover, it was Allah that tried to block us from knowledge; and it was Satan that showed us the way. Who to trust more: the guy who manipulated us from knowledge, or, the guy who manipulated us to embrace knowledge? I'll go with the latter. You can go with the big liar.
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Post by julius on May 10, 2008 12:20:18 GMT -5
God was smart, like a jew. He wanted to test Abraham.
To understand this u must know how jews educate their children.
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Post by yahadj on May 10, 2008 12:34:31 GMT -5
Satan was not in debt to Allah. He doesn't have to serve him, or any of his creations. Moreover, it was Allah that tried to block of from knowledge; and it was Satan that showed us the way. Who to trust more: the guy who manipulated us from knowledge, or, the guy who manipulated us to embrace knowledge? I'll go with the latter. You can go with the big liar. Wow. That is what I call real deviation. Who is Satan?- a creation of God. What is human - a creation of God. Who is the source of absolute knowledge - Almighty God. We can acquire as much knowledge as Allah allows us. He is source of light, knowldge and intelligence... Satan can only lie and deviate... Then, who is to be served? The Almighty Creator or a limited creation whose existance depend on God? All creations were created from nothing... Dude I didn't know you were Satanist... Poor soul. You like fire? PEACE
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Post by jerryspringer on May 10, 2008 19:06:29 GMT -5
If Satan is not superior to us, then he is not to be feared. If he is superior than us, then he was right. In either case, what of these makes him evil? In the Old Testament he's described as some sort of traitor, not as evil.
Does Allah love Satan?
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Post by yahadj on May 11, 2008 4:08:42 GMT -5
Satan is not superior than us because his arrogancy and inability to fight it. Adam and Eve, despite of their ability to sin, were able to repent and ask for forgiveness from God. But Satan didn't. Pride was his weakness. The half of humanity is as bad as Satan. That half is collaborating with the Satan. Thus they will both go to Hell and will be punished accordingly. The remaining half of the human race is superior to Satan. That half will go to heaven.
Satan is traitor, I agree. And his efforts are directed for the catalysis of differentiation of bad from good. He is the enemy of good and friend of the bad.
Whether God loves Satan or not I don't know. But he is angry with him and he will go to Hell. That is where he belongs. Since he was made of fire, that may not hurt him as much as it would humans... Only Allah knows. And that is out of my scope of interest. I can't care less about Satan's fate...
PEACE
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Post by jerryspringer on May 11, 2008 5:17:49 GMT -5
It's amazing that you can possess over these statistics. I still wonder how that makes Satan evil. I never heard of Satan committing an evil act. Can you name one? He lured us to knowledge, whereas God tried to keep us away from knowledge. Who is the evil one?
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Post by yahadj on May 11, 2008 5:33:28 GMT -5
It's amazing that you can possess over these statistics. I still wonder how that makes Satan evil. I never heard of Satan committing an evil act. Can you name one? He lured us to knowledge, whereas God tried to keep us away from knowledge. Who is the evil one? All bad deeds commited by humans is inspired by Satan. Satan has a pledge to devaite us from the right path by making us commit crimes. Don't be silly. Is it only you who doesn't know that Satan is your enemy. What kind of friend is he to you if he tries to take you to Hell??? And how did you come to conclusion that God tried to keep you away from knowldge and Satan did the opposite? It is Allah who let's you have some knowldge. Nothing good comes from the Satan. Only deviation from the truth... Oh I know. You judge God by the teachings of your Christian Church. Well, I am sorry for you but my belief is not based on that. Because unfortunatelly Churches stopped preaching the good religion of Jesus Christ long time ago. Only deviated people can prohibit seeking knowledge. In West the knowldge came after people abondened Christianity. In east the opposite. We have lost the leadership on science once our belief in Islam got weaker. For Allah wants us to seek for knowldge because knowledge can only make us realize His Greatness and bring us closer to him. PEACE
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Post by jerryspringer on May 11, 2008 7:12:10 GMT -5
It is Allah who decides whether I go to Hell or not; therefore, I can't hold Satan accountable for that. If his intentions are to get me to Hell, then that may be a bad thing. I will know when I get there.
You mean he is not there, already?
He ordered Adam and Eve not to eat the special aple. When they did, he punished them; along with Satan.
You say that you don't know whether Allah loves Satan or not. I understand that. But we both know that Satan is a creation of Allah; and we both realize that Allah doesn't need you to defend him. So when you insult a part of his creation, you insult his capability of creating. He may find that upsetting, so my suggestion to you is to shut that big mouth of yours and let Allah decide what's for next. Your conclusion that Satan is our enemy is based on your human interpretation--but I'm not to follow your human interpretation, but the words of Allah.
If we go back to the facts: Satan made something that Allah did not agree with. Satan took the consequences, as did we. That doesn't make Satan evil, nor does it make him our enemy. You have not been given a mandate to judge Satan. Only Allah can judge him and only he knows what position is to be taken on Satan.
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Post by yahadj on May 11, 2008 8:22:44 GMT -5
Yes. Allah decides who will go to Paradise and who to Hell. But that is based on your deeds. If you believed in him in the right way and you did good deeds, then you go to Paradise. Those who didn't do any of these go to Hell. Since Allah gave you a free will to choose your path it is you who determines his fate with the permission of God. During this process it is Satan who constantly tries to deviate you from the Good. If you obey him then you are deviated and your destination is Hell. From this you can clearly understand that Satan is your enemy.
I wouldn't know where is he right now. Is he going in between the Hell and Earth, either. But we were told that after the sin they commited Allah send him and Adam and Havva to Earth to stay there till the day of Judgment. Satan is mentioned in singular form in the Heaven but later on Allah mentions Satan in plural form and Jins, too. Is there a Satan for each of us, I don't know. But I know he is constantly bugging us. Also we are told that there are two angels for each of us keeping track and record of our deeds. Those are small details and not that important as long as you realize that Allah almighty is aware of your every single move and will judge you fairly based on that.
I don't have a special interest in insulting any creation. It is Allah SWT who mentioned Satan as our enemy. I take God's word as reference. I don't have to make up new enemies. I simply follow Allah's recommendations. ----------------------------------------- "Surah Bakara(2:36): But Satan caused them to deflect therefrom and expelled them from the (happy) state in which they were; and We said: Fall down, one of you a foe unto the other! There shall be for you on earth a habitation and provision for a time."
"Surah An-Nisa(4:38): And (also) those who spend their wealth in order to be seen of men, and believe not in Allah nor the Last Day. Whoso taketh Satan for a comrade, a bad comrade hath he."
"4:60 Hast thou not seen those who pretend that they believe in that which is revealed unto thee and that which was revealed before thee, how they would go for judgment (in their disputes) to false deities when they have been ordered to abjure them? Satan would mislead them far astray."
"5:91 Satan seeketh only to cast among you enmity and hatred by means of strong drink and games of chance, and to turn you from remembrance of Allah and from (His) worship. Will ye then have done?"
"7:22 Thus did he lead them on with guile. And when they tasted of the tree their shame was manifest to them and they began to hide (by heaping) on themselves some of the leaves of the Garden. And their Lord called them, (saying): Did I not forbid you from that tree and tell you: Lo! Satan is an open enemy to you?"
"7:27 O Children of Adam! Let not Satan seduce you as he caused your (first) parents to go forth from the Garden and tore off from them their robe (of innocence) that be might manifest their shame to them. Lo! he seeth you, he and his tribe, from whence ye see him not. Lo! We have made the devils protecting friends for those who believe not." --------------------------------------------------
If you like Satan, I wonder based on what? On your own human interpretation? What good Satan did to you to make you fond of him?
Anyway, since Allah gave you the freedom of choice you are free to choose bad things, too. But don't forget you will be hold accountable for that...
PEACE
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Post by jerryspringer on May 11, 2008 8:30:05 GMT -5
If Allah mentions Satan as our enemy, then that is still not enough to say that Satan is evil. And even if he were evil, that still doesn't mean that he can't turn good, again. I will never be free until all entities are made good and guaranteed a place in Heaven. What good is it for me to be in Heaven, knowing that my brothers and sisters feel the hardship in Hell? I still won't be happy--and Heaven promises happiness. Therefore, I want all to be in Heaven--Satan included. I disagree with the notion of one life, one chance. Allah should give each entity the time it needs to turn good, so that we can all enjoy Heaven. Also, I want animals with a limited consciousness (such as cats and dogs) to be permitted to Heaven. Or if not Heaven, then something similar to Heaven.
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Post by jerryspringer on May 11, 2008 8:31:38 GMT -5
Is it a sin to love Satan?
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Post by yahadj on May 11, 2008 9:37:36 GMT -5
If Allah mentions Satan as our enemy, then that is still not enough to say that Satan is evil. And even if he were evil, that still doesn't mean that he can't turn good, again. I will never be free until all entities are made good and guaranteed a place in Heaven. What good is it for me to be in Heaven, knowing that my brothers and sisters feel the hardship in Hell? I still won't be happy--and Heaven promises happiness. Therefore, I want all to be in Heaven--Satan included. I disagree with the notion of one life, one chance. Allah should give each entity the time it needs to turn good, so that we can all enjoy Heaven. Also, I want animals with a limited consciousness (such as cats and dogs) to be permitted to Heaven. Or if not Heaven, then something similar to Heaven. It is not hard to see the evil in Satan. Simple logic. If your brother and your family goes to Hell that is because they have listened and obeyed Satan. You want to blame God for that? Silly boy... BTW it is not you who creates the rules. Your likes or dislikes won't change anything. You are supposed to follow them or you go to Hell. Anyway you want to go there and you may. Allah gives everybody that they aim for. You aim Hell, I aim Heaven. But it is only Allah who decides. Both of us we may not end where we have hoped. I am OK with that. The intention and goodness of the cause is important... "Is it a sin to love Satan?" Well, yaha.. PEACE
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