ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Oct 28, 2009 9:06:10 GMT -5
the boslims as arsenije calls them are much more dillusional than i thought. i guess its only natural considering the turkish influence and their steady social decline since the fall of the ottoman empire. ioan made a good point, and it is something that has always upset me. out of all of the balkan peoples, we serbs allowed ourselves to be split more than anything. as iona said. bulgaria was able to regain most of their muslims and make the pomaks an insignificant minority. the romanians remained christian, along with the greeks. but only the serbs and the siptars allowed themselves to be divided, with the latter obviously fighting for unity. there has to be something wrong with our mentality that needs to be tweeked....just my two cents... Gavrilo, the Pomaks are not that insignificat: there are 200-300 000 of them. Also the Turks in Bulgaria are almost 10 percent. So there are minorities and they are mainly muslim. Also we couldnt regain alot of the muslim population: lots of them moved to Turkey, including alot of Pomaks. The Pomaks in Greece I ve heard identify as Turks unfortunately.
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Oct 28, 2009 9:12:37 GMT -5
Ioan, yes it's terrible. Divide & conqure with Islam they did. It's with the Turks that these names first appear. There is a consistent phenomenon - wherever you have pockets of Muslim slavs they made up new ethnic names for them - Pomaks, Gorani, Torbesh & Bosniaks. Most Muslims in Serbia & Montenegro identify as Bosniaks lol. All these groups also consistently claim Thracian/Illyrian heritage which makes a farce of their ethnicity really. As if they happened to be Illyrians/Thracians who missed out on slavicisation like the rest but then decided to take up the Turks offer. I can't handle them. You're lucky in Bulgaria there are not too many Pomaks so they don't have the opportunity to be as dissruptive. arsenije, I ve also wondered why and how only the muslim Balkanians miraculously are preslavic populace. First, if there is ilirian/thracian blood in the muslim slavs, there is the same amount in the other orthodox/catholic slavs on the Bolkans. Second, there was no difference between a, say, a Pomak and a Bulgarian, before the arrival of the Turks... So we are the same, just the religion is different.
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Oct 28, 2009 9:18:28 GMT -5
Ioan, yes it's terrible. Divide & conqure with Islam they did. It's with the Turks that these names first appear. There is a consistent phenomenon - wherever you have pockets of Muslim slavs they made up new ethnic names for them - Pomaks, Gorani, Torbesh & Bosniaks. Most Muslims in Serbia & Montenegro identify as Bosniaks lol. All these groups also consistently claim Thracian/Illyrian heritage which makes a farce of their ethnicity really. As if they happened to be Illyrians/Thracians who missed out on slavicisation like the rest but then decided to take up the Turks offer. I can't handle them. You're lucky in Bulgaria there are not too many Pomaks so they don't have the opportunity to be as dissruptive. arsenije, I ve also wondered why and how only the muslim Balkanians miraculously are preslavic populace. First, if there is ilirian/thracian blood in the muslim slavs, there is the same amount in the other orthodox/catholic slavs on the Bolkans. Second, there was no difference between a, say, a Pomak and a Bulgarian, before the arrival of the Turks... So we are the same, just the religion is different. Yeps exactly. It's particularly preposterous that a Pomak could think they're anything other than of Bulgarian origin.
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Oct 28, 2009 9:25:09 GMT -5
Yes, but isnt it the same for the muslim Bosnians? Arent they also just islamised Serbs and Croats?
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Oct 28, 2009 9:43:05 GMT -5
Yes, but isnt it the same for the muslim Bosnians? Arent they also just islamised Serbs and Croats? Ioan, I believe for the most part they are. The only hard part is quantifying it. That's the never ending debate here. Bosnia from its earliest days was identified as having a Serbian and or Croat population/presence. Honestly, I think that there was a small amount of slavs who identified neither as Serbs or Croats but rather with their state as Bosnians. I say small because a) Bosnia is a territory named after a river (ie not an ethnic name) & b) it was a small territory that continued to expand over Serb & Croat land. Later the only people who identified with this state were Muslims. Have a look at the topic I just posted in the Bosnia forum on the demographic history of Bosnia. There is constant reference to Serbs & Croats. Why even have this reference if people thought they were ethnic Bosnians. Bosnia was undoubtedly mixed between Serbs & Croats. Very few would have ethnically identified with this state untill they started converting to Islam & took the ethnic name Bosniaks. The fact that Muslims in both Montenegro & Serbia identified as Bosniaks from the earliest times just reinforces that this ethnic designation is entirely correlated with Islam.
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Post by peccafly on Oct 28, 2009 18:04:29 GMT -5
ioan:
theres no need to be different to form a federation. germany is a federation but the most of its components are overwhelmingly german. serbia & rs are populated mainly by serbs but have some different history so they can form a federation. is it also possible to make vojvodina an separate component within the federation ?
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Post by Novi Pazar on Oct 28, 2009 21:59:39 GMT -5
Ioan, there may not be many pomaks but there is plenty of Turks in Bulgaria, approx 1million. Some here believe that Bulgaria's Turks are infact Turkicised Bulgars?
I don't like saying this Ioan, but these Turks in Bulgaria may one day be a problem, what makes it worse is that turkey is your neighbour with 70million people.
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Post by tito on Oct 28, 2009 23:03:41 GMT -5
OT: Is it true that Bulgaria has lost around one million people since it joined EU in 2007?
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Oct 28, 2009 23:48:08 GMT -5
no, but we lost alot since the fall of communism due to immigration.
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Post by tito on Oct 29, 2009 0:15:43 GMT -5
no, but we lost alot since the fall of communism due to immigration. Is there any immigration of Bulgarians from Serbia? Bulgaria must be more attractive to them now that it has joined EU?
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ioan
Amicus
Posts: 4,162
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Post by ioan on Oct 29, 2009 2:11:40 GMT -5
I do not think that there is a big immigration of Bulgarians from Serbia. Although we are an EU member for 2 years, the standart of life in Bulgaria and in Serbia is not that different.
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Post by ravnagorka on Apr 9, 2010 1:18:03 GMT -5
sad & depressed tito no Serbs have migrated to bulgaria, you've been rotting in your fanatical muslim puppet state of bosnia. I'm sure your unemployed, not able to invest in anything & sarajevo has gone backwards by 400 years since its muslim takeover 1995, actual quote from bbc. Continue to rot in your fanatical muslim state while I get to travel to a cosmopolitan european country SERBIA. Serbs look beautiful, stunning, educated & you know your in europe whereas bosnia looks like a primative backward joke.
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Post by karl79 on Jun 4, 2010 9:16:20 GMT -5
Good luck in Africa. Kick theme all. Slavs must show who they are Most of us are with You. All the best from Poland !!!!!
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Post by terroreign on Feb 2, 2011 21:09:07 GMT -5
A Serbia-Republika Srpska-Montenegro economic union would be ideal
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Post by Novus Dis on Feb 25, 2011 15:06:20 GMT -5
RS has proven that it's willing to defend it's citizens. Serbia has proven that it's not willing. RS should annex Serbia. Citizens of Serbia shouldn't be allowed to vote or run for office.
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Post by eaglesson on Feb 25, 2011 22:13:59 GMT -5
If Serbs support ethnic Albania i say all albanians support your cause of Independent Republika Srpska.
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Post by la3ar on Feb 25, 2011 22:26:02 GMT -5
Unfortunatly for you, Albanians have zero say on the fate of Rep .Srpska.
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Post by terroreign on Jun 9, 2012 22:03:14 GMT -5
Proposed "Serbian Federation" One language, one currency, one constitution.
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Post by Croatian Vanguard on Jun 10, 2012 8:53:02 GMT -5
I see nothing wrong with it. All three ethnic groups would have to come up with an equitable distribution of land. The only downside is that the rest of it would probably be 'federated' with Croatia which means we get 2 million Muslims.
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Post by uz on Jun 10, 2012 12:31:41 GMT -5
Proposed "Serbian Federation" One language, one currency, one constitution. I think this is inevitable, but it will be a long process - the West will make sure of that.
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