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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Aug 26, 2009 21:10:50 GMT -5
Haplogroup I DistributionHercegovinans - 63.8 Bosnians - 42.0 Bosnian Serbs - 40.7 Croats - 37.0 Serbs - 29.2 Haplogroup I (specifically I2a2) is the Serb haplogroup, not the Bosnian or Croatian one as has been claimed by Croats & Bosnians. This is why I say it's so… First of all Croats claiming a monopoly on it is bulls**t. Mainland Croats are less than 10% higher on it then "Serbians" (not Serbs) for a start, for whom I believe the figure is likely to be higher after factoring in minorities. It’s also found in quite high frequency in a lot of other European populations. Next, Hercegovina is not in a majority Croat. It is in majority Serbian and has been historically so. And if there was any bit of common sense its epicentre would be pinpointed to the Dinaric mountains through Montenegro, not just Hercegovina. Bosnians claiming a monopoly on it is similarly bulls**t since they are really about the same as Bosnian Serbs and clearly Hercegovina is presently identified as its epicentre where Bosniaks represent the smallest population frequency. Also, the present Bosnian borders did not include the Hercegovina region in its earliest days. This area was inhabited by Serbs & Croats. In any case the best way to look at this is actually to ask which ethnic group contains this gene the most? ...and if it could be calculated it would clearly be Serbs. Here’s how you could do it. First of all we would take the general Bosnian population minus Hercegovina and pull a figure for 42.0% of the population and assign it to Bosniaks. Do the same for 40.7% of the Bosnian Serb population. Next you could take the population of Hercegovina and for each ethnic group pull 63.8% of the population for a figure. Do the same for Croatia, Serbia & Montenegro. What you would end up with is a that a vast majority of haplogroup I carriers would be Serbs followed by Croats, Bosnians and then ethnic Montenegrins. I can’t find any specific tests on Montenegrin haplogroups but I seriously doubt anyone will be willing to guess that it’s going to be much different then Hercegovina and if anything you might even expect them to be higher carriers of haplogroup I. Maps below show Hercegovina & its ethnic distribution. Now, clearly this haplogroup is going to be in it’s majority through Hercegovina and Montenegro. Historically this is Serbian land. The Serbian identity here precedes any other present day ethnicity. Hum, Zahumlje, Zeta, Duklja, Raska - all Serbian land. This is where our history starts. Historically and presently it is in majority Serbs. This is our haplogroup.
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maki
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Post by maki on Aug 26, 2009 22:29:19 GMT -5
Don't you guys ever stop? YOUR SERB IF YOU FEEL SERB AND HAVE SERBIAN/BOSNIAN/MONT CITIZENSHIP.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Aug 27, 2009 1:49:24 GMT -5
Arsenije, what you post, is in alignment with in vivo observation. In Brcko the Hercegovinian muslim population was just huge in height, at about 70% of the population. (As a visit to Bingo supermarket easily indicates, where mostly muslims go). Now, Bosnian Serbs were huge at about 50-40% of the population. (As a visit to Maxi supermarket indicates, where mostly Serbs go) In Zlatibor (counting only locals), Uzice, the amount of huge population remained the same as the Bosnian serbs. However, in vojvodina, sumadija and in southern serbia it dropped to 30%. Thats why you will still see huge ppl in Novi Sad, Kragujevac, Nis, Leskovac bit not as frequently as in Brcko, Visegrad.
However, in Beograd, ppl are bigger than the rest of Serbia. Maybe the feeding/water or the big percentage of montenegrins would explain that.
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Post by srbobran on Aug 27, 2009 13:03:52 GMT -5
Pyrros, I think Serbs in general are a pretty tall people, but the ones living on the Dinaric Alps (ie. Montenegro, Kosovo, Herzegovina) particularly so.
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Aug 27, 2009 22:28:35 GMT -5
Pyross I’m not really following you all the way on that. I think what you are trying to do is associate the distribution of I2a2 with the slav Dinaric appearance. Whatever the case may be the earliest mention of Serbs and our earliest and most dominant history is in present day Montenegro & Hercegovina. Montenegrins themselves often carry on about being the original or super Serbs. The amount of times I've heard from them "mi smo bili prvi Srbi..." Most of present day Serbia wasn't even in the originally populated Serb lands. Outside of the original sphere I believe were more random slavs (eg Torlaks) that assimilated into the wider Serb identity. Similar thing happened with Croats and the Sokci. This of course doesn't make Srbijanci any less Serb. I mean what else would have they even wanted to be? Bulgarians? Bosnians? The difference isn’t really large anyway. In the end they've turned out better Serbs than a lot of Montenegrins. Personally I haven't ventured far into Serbia but I really don't make much of a physical distinction between Bosnian Serbs and Serbian Serbs other than maybe the Torlaks I’ve seen. But then there are heaps of FYROMians that have some of the Serb looks as well. Like you said there really isn't a single typical Serb & having that diversity and overlap is great. I really think this is true. Perhaps that genetic diversity is what has actually given us so many successful individuals. I just believe that the original Serbs were highly haplogroup I (be that "native" or wherever it came from)... It is most homogenous to earliest populated Serb areas and I'm sure we'd easily find that most Haplogroup I carriers are Serbs.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Aug 28, 2009 12:28:30 GMT -5
I just came across that one: any thoughts?
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Post by srbobran on Aug 28, 2009 12:54:49 GMT -5
Interesting. My best guess would be that it has something to do with either Roman or Hellenic presence on the Balkans because throughout Italy and the Balkans (even in Romania Greece, and Turkey) it seems to have a high concentration. However, that wouldn't exactly explain its presence (alebit a very limited one) in Russia and that same presence all the way in Portugal.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Aug 28, 2009 12:59:42 GMT -5
remember that portugeuese are eseentially alanians (same tribe as osetians).
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Post by srbobran on Aug 28, 2009 15:05:04 GMT -5
No, they're not.
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Post by Username on Aug 28, 2009 17:29:51 GMT -5
Lmao, you're claiming a haplogroup?
Were you dropped on your head as a baby or something? Comon', seriously.. lmao
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Aug 28, 2009 21:47:36 GMT -5
^ Haha well I've specifically on this forum pointed out that a single haplogroup does not represent a single ethnicity in present times. Anyway if you can actually disagree with my analogy of this haplogroup then go for it. And btw Bosnia is Serb. You have to be in a major state of denial to be able to read the charters of the Bosnian Kings and think that it represents anything other than Serbdom. Throw in a heap of external references & you have to be a fvcking idiot to think Bosnia was historically not a Serb land basically with some smaller alternative influence.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Aug 29, 2009 0:11:58 GMT -5
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlansPortuguese is actually spanish with an accent as they would be spoken by the citizens of modern Ossetia. PS Why are you so firm on things that you didnt even google for? PS2 Also, if the green in the map represents anything greek, then Crete should look like the darkest green, since there live ancient pure greeks.
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MiG
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Post by MiG on Aug 29, 2009 2:11:23 GMT -5
^ Dude what the fuck are you talking about? Portuguese is NOTHING like Spanish. Portuguese is more comparable to French than Spanish. I know a LOT of Spanish and Portuguese people, and your statement is pure bull.
BTW, he's right. The Portuguese can also be compared to the people of old Carthage, the Moors, or even the damn Berbers, that doesn't mean that it makes them so.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Aug 29, 2009 2:30:32 GMT -5
MIG, Did you click on the link?
i know portuguese ppl who claim that for spanish proper portuguese sound like "vlah"-peasant spanish, so?
To all western ppl, Portuguese/Brazilian is the ONLY language that can be mistaken for an eastern language. Portuguese, Spanish belong to ibero-romance family, whereas french to gallo-romance, so once again our friend MiG displays his huge amount of ... hastiness, when he is about to comment on ppl's posts who he does not like.
PS and please try to avoid the f**k word, at least in your first post. Your lack of manners is almost classic.
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MiG
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Post by MiG on Aug 29, 2009 3:03:39 GMT -5
^ Ladies and gents, this is called not knowing what the fuck you're talking about 101.
Now, you specifically said:
So I basically said you're an idiot for even trying to put forth such a statement.
Yes. It's an article, and a pretty useless one at that. (Considering what I called you out on, it has absolutely nothing to do with anything I've called you out on.
Now, to move on..
Oh, so you KNOW of Portuguese people who claim such things? Well, I've got about a dozen Spanish people and twice as much Portuguese people that will refute that claim. And guess what? They're fucking actually from there.
No, that's not true. Can you prove that? Is there any sort of a measure to test that theory. If not, then you should stop while you're ahead, because you're wasting my time, the people's time, and at the end of all that, your own time.
You obviously have no idea what the two languages sound like. Maybe you should listen to an entire soccer game of each in question, and then tell me they're similar.
First off, MiG is not your friend. Secondly, it's not the question whether I like you or not (You rather disgust me with your ignorance), its that you're wrong.
Please. Spare me your fucking semantics and take it like a man. You have no clue what Portuguese and Spanish share in common, or what they don't share in common.
The very underlying fact of the matter is this.. if you put a Portuguese person from Anywhere in Portugal, and a Spanish Person from anywhere in Spain; they would not be able to functionally communicate with one another.
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Post by fazlinho on Aug 29, 2009 3:20:35 GMT -5
^ Haha well I've specifically on this forum pointed out that a single haplogroup does not represent a single ethnicity in present times. Anyway if you can actually disagree with my analogy of this haplogroup then go for it. And btw Bosnia is Serb. You have to be in a major state of denial to be able to read the charters of the Bosnian Kings and think that it represents anything other than Serbdom. Throw in a heap of external references & you have to be a fvcking idiot to think Bosnia was historically not a Serb land basically with some smaller alternative influence. No you have to be a normal person to think that. You just have to be a Serb to think that the whole world is Serb.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Aug 29, 2009 3:59:07 GMT -5
MiG, i will not elaborate more than to note that according to: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_languageen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_languageen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_languagePortuguese is closer to Spanish than french. You only proved is that you are a hateful stupid b itch and nothing more. You jumped like a fart in this thread, cause you smelled you could address me directly? huh? Isnt that you, who said that we should avoid each other, messing in each other's threads, etc?? f ucking hypocritical s lut. not only do you fail to keep your own proposed deals, in addition you get owned almost 101% of the times. loser.
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Aug 29, 2009 11:15:05 GMT -5
^ Haha well I've specifically on this forum pointed out that a single haplogroup does not represent a single ethnicity in present times. Anyway if you can actually disagree with my analogy of this haplogroup then go for it. And btw Bosnia is Serb. You have to be in a major state of denial to be able to read the charters of the Bosnian Kings and think that it represents anything other than Serbdom. Throw in a heap of external references & you have to be a fvcking idiot to think Bosnia was historically not a Serb land basically with some smaller alternative influence. No you have to be a normal person to think that. You just have to be a Serb to think that the whole world is Serb. No, to think like that you can be someone more like the youngest PhD holder in the former Yugoslavia (namely Vojislav Seselj) or maybe some Bosnian Muslim Serb like Mesa Selimovic to think like that, or maybe just someone with half decent logic. Fazlino, the more you know of the medieval Balkans & the more you are able to put things into context the more you realise that you guys really are Poturice. Or alternatively we are all Bosnjani lol. You know what though, that is utter & complete bulls!t... Now Serbia has suffered. We've pretty much lost everything we can in the last 20 years & yet we are still far stronger than you. You had your time in the sun - centuries generating your ethnicity under your beloved Ottomans. Now you are never going to have that again.
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MiG
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Post by MiG on Aug 29, 2009 18:56:04 GMT -5
MiG, i will not elaborate more than to note that according to: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_languageen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_languageen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_languagePortuguese is closer to Spanish than french. You only proved is that you are a hateful stupid b itch and nothing more. You jumped like a fart in this thread, cause you smelled you could address me directly? huh? Isnt that you, who said that we should avoid each other, messing in each other's threads, etc?? f ucking hypocritical s lut. not only do you fail to keep your own proposed deals, in addition you get owned almost 101% of the times. loser. That proves nothing you fat cunt. Now STFU, since you don't know fuck all about anything. Haha! You're such a waste of oxygen! Getting owned 101% of the "times". Yeah sure buddy, in your wet dreams. Haha, you think you know it all, but in all reality you're nothing than an ass kisser who can't get enough brown on your nose. Fag.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Aug 29, 2009 22:14:10 GMT -5
People, alot of foreign tourists described Portugese as similar to sounding like slavic (i'm not saying that its slavic or whatever) or as a drunken frenchman.
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