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Post by fazlinho on Jun 11, 2009 5:52:00 GMT -5
Doesn't surprise me at all. There's also Sremski Front, where they conscripted teenagers and young men from rich & educated families, giving them nothing more than a rusty rifle to go up against experienced, well-equipped German soldiers. Most would die. It was all calculated I think. In order for communists to rule effectively, they had to eliminate all threats (educated, rich, upper-class people were threats; Serbs, who ruled the Yugoslav Kingdom, were a threat). The change in power was drastic after WW2 (the communists who gained it were mostly uneducated peasants). As much as I don't believe at all the number to be this high (80000, c'mon...) I have to agree that most of the post WW2 ruling class was indeed made up of peasants who gained power under the pretext of fighting "the old system".
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Post by bob1389 on Jun 11, 2009 6:21:09 GMT -5
As much as I don't believe at all the number to be this high (80000, c'mon...) lol. The irony is killing me here.
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Post by Novus Dis on Jun 11, 2009 6:49:25 GMT -5
250,000 seems like a low number, considering how many died under other Commie governments and the fact that the narcissist known as Tito ruled almost unchallenged for 35 years. I remember that the Americans thought that around 2,000,000 Vietnamese citizens and around 750,000 Vietnamese soldiers died during the war when the end result was over 4,000,000 Vietnamese civilians and over 1,200,000 Vietnamese soldiers.
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Post by SKORIC on Jun 11, 2009 7:22:23 GMT -5
As much as I don't believe at all the number to be this high (80000, c'mon...) lol. The irony is killing me here. haha yeh
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Post by soko on Jun 11, 2009 9:41:25 GMT -5
^ Lol. What an idiot? He's trying to say Serbs pay their respects to this man in alrge umbers every day. Too bad the facts don't back up his claim. Onlu 20,000 people visit the site. More then a quarter of these visit the site on Dan Mladosti. Of the other 15,000 most [2/3] come during the 45 days it is open during the summer <-- majority of which are foreign tourists {when I was their during the summer it was an American tour group, the old frail Slovenian and a group of Slovaks, only about 30% of people were form ex-YU}. That means on the average day [i.e. 210 or so days it is open outside the summer season when foreigners visit him and when it isn't dan mladosti], as he claims, only something aorund 25 people come to Tito's grave. But what do you expect from the idiot who claimed Yugoslavia had a low unemplyoment rate under Tito. He just stated what he experienced when he was there, and unemployment was low during Tito if we compare it with today. So the idiot is right, but how should I know, I am only a humble balija with a 65 point IQ..
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Post by soko on Jun 11, 2009 9:55:02 GMT -5
The only bad things that happened during the commies where the "purges", and when people abused their power, like if someone who was in the Partizan's during the war for his own personal gain killed someone after the war and then later said that that guy was a Cetnik/Ustasa/etc. Also giving an ethnic group the name of a religion due to some peoples inferiority complexes wasn't such a good move. As for Tito, even if I have a great deal of respect for him, I'm not a fan of the personality cult around Tito..
What was done to random Hungarians and Germans was a crime, but the killing of the "elite" refereed to those who were rich before, not out of their own work, biznis people, clergy..etc...
Apart from that, during that era more "intellectuals" were produced, engineers, physicians, etc...Uni was free...
And the KPJ from the war was mostly made up of Urban people, not of "peasents"... There was free health-care, schooling, you had security..
Anyways, every system has its flaws, and its abuse of power. But if you compare how the Balkans had it under Socialism, and if you look at how it is now, then the clear winner, at least for those who are not "tycoons" is socialism.
Well, most of you hate socialism, now you don't have any aspects of it left in the former Yugoslavia, enjoy...
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Post by Novus Dis on Jun 11, 2009 10:12:34 GMT -5
Yugoslavia was the best under it's king. Too bad he was a coward and fled.
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Post by radovic on Jun 11, 2009 10:14:52 GMT -5
^ Yes education was so great that Yugoslav republics tended to have the lowest number of post-secondary educated students and the average students spends 7 years completing a 4 year program. <-- This still applies to 5 of the 6.
Healthcare. All financed because of debt. It would of gone to hell had the state continued and was starting too go to hell when the debt was due.
Tito's Yugoslavia was notihng more then a Potemkin village built on a mountain of debt. It's successors are all essentially Potemkin failures build on larger piles of debt.
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Post by Ja Ona i Pivo on Jun 11, 2009 10:36:38 GMT -5
now that we are "debt free" why is it not better than before?
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Post by radovic on Jun 11, 2009 10:42:51 GMT -5
now that we are "debt free" why is it not better than before? You obviously can't read. No one said we are debt free. So long as those pursuing neo-liberal policies and listening to IMF diktats are in power no one will be debt free.
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Post by Novus Dis on Jun 11, 2009 11:37:59 GMT -5
Even Slovenia (which reports debt as revenue) has gone downhill. The only states which will come out on top are those that will lower/reduce taxes and regulations while enforcing a strong Protectionist trade policy.
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Post by Ja Ona i Pivo on Jun 11, 2009 13:02:15 GMT -5
now that we are "debt free" why is it not better than before? You obviously can't read. No one said we are debt free. So long as those pursuing neo-liberal policies and listening to IMF diktats are in power no one will be debt free. I was being ironic, didnt ment to write that to you.
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MiG
Amicus
Republika
Posts: 4,793
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Post by MiG on Jun 11, 2009 13:25:04 GMT -5
EIther way, Yugoslavia would have been a lot better off as a Democratic nation, with a Multi-Party System. A Confederacy or a Federal Government would have been a lot better, as everyone would voice their opinion, and aid from the west would have been constant. There are so many things that could have happened, but didn't; and because of that, we are paying for it today, and tomorrow.
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Post by Ja Ona i Pivo on Jun 11, 2009 13:34:18 GMT -5
^ I agree
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Post by Novus Dis on Jun 11, 2009 15:12:43 GMT -5
Yeah, it should be a Democracy... so guys like Tudjman and Izetbegovic can get elected. Great idea.
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Trazi Vise
Amicus
Today's "church" has NOTHING to do with religion.
Posts: 3,126
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Post by Trazi Vise on Jun 11, 2009 18:26:21 GMT -5
I had no idea they did the same to this extent in Serbia proper. Interesting, I learnt something new today. This post is for my great grandfathers who also died after the second war.
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MiG
Amicus
Republika
Posts: 4,793
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Post by MiG on Jun 12, 2009 0:03:59 GMT -5
Yeah, it should be a Democracy... so guys like Tudjman and Izetbegovic can get elected. Great idea. Err, dude, what do you propose? A Monarchy?
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Post by Novus Dis on Jun 12, 2009 4:38:56 GMT -5
Err, dude, what do you propose? A Monarchy? Yugoslavia was the best under it's king. Too bad he was a coward and fled.
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Post by SKORIC on Jun 12, 2009 4:48:13 GMT -5
^ He was king for 2 weeks before WW2 lol so it wasnt the best under him. You're probably thinking of his father?
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MiG
Amicus
Republika
Posts: 4,793
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Post by MiG on Jun 12, 2009 13:52:08 GMT -5
Under the King ehh.. so the Croats would strive more and more for self-determination and autonomy (Cvetkovic-Macek Sprazum), and eventually, a drive for independence. You're right actually, not a bad idea.
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