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Post by MurlaniHotit on Dec 13, 2009 18:36:55 GMT -5
Funny, we have a Greek telling Northern Albanians about their origins and who they "really" are and we have a Montenegrin telling Southern Albanians about their origins and who they "really" are. It really is amusing.
My Greek friend, you're either dyslexic or trying to provoke. In case you didn't understand, let me say it really clearly for you. Many Montenegrins, (not all, but many) had an Albanian origin and openly admitted it in the past (some even as recently as the 1980's, until the rise of Serbian nationalism when the word Albanian denoted being a subhuman creature). I was just trying to tell Admin not to throw stones if you live in a glass house (if you need this analogy explained too, let me know).
In any case, it doesn't change the reality on the ground, which is that Albanians are in the Balkans, have been for millenia, and will be for millenia to come. We're stronger and more united now than we ever have been, and we are moving forward. So stop with the BS propaganda that 60% of Southern Albania is Greek inhabited.
If this were true, how could anyone hide it? The statement in itself is do ridiculous it's stupid. Don't you think someone else would have noticed other than Bollano? Wouldn't there be international organizations around the world decrying the "terrible" Albanians for what they have been doing to their "Greek minority" for the past 100 years. There would be some noise about secession or oppression, but there isn't.
Wake up and look at reality people. You may not like reality, but deal with it.
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on Dec 13, 2009 18:46:31 GMT -5
Fair enough... at least you know how to debate.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Dec 13, 2009 20:03:01 GMT -5
Wtf do u know about us Southies? I have been to Montenegro's Albanian areas and I have families from Shkodra... they differ from us "southies" in the vaguest sense. U Greeks need to speak for urselves. We Tosk Albanians can speak for ourselves. Keep in mind that it was we Tosks who would rape ur population during the Ottoman Empire. Vrioni and all the Beys and Pashas u fought against were Tosks, most of the mercenaries in Morea were Tosks. 90% of Ottoman generals of Albanian origin were Tosks, the vast majority of deputies and mercenaries were Tosks as well. Hell, a Tosk Albanian even organized massacres of Armenians and another Tosk Albanian from Janina kiked the ass of Greeks in Asia Minor during the 1919 war. 90% of all Albanians who have killed Greeks, raped your women, burned down your villages, etc. etc.... have come from us Tosks... so tell me... where is the "kinship"? Hell we Tosks even destroyed the Byzantine-Serb army at the battle of Vjosa under Bua Shpata (as in the same name that Spiromilo adopted "Buas") What with these rats tell us who we are? People who have never even touched the border of Albania telling Albanians what they are connected to. When it comes to our old hobby we didn't look if a tourkalvanos was tosk or gek... in Dervenakia... the guys begged saying "jam skodran...jam kristian..."... but our grandfathers didn't mind... they weren't racists...they didn't think if someone was christian or muslim... just to get more points on their " kill a tourkalvanos" game... PS.How's Narta? Does it snow there? Forget Narta. Its in the past. Its a ghost town today. Once a year villagers gather there for a ever shrinking Easter festival that once gathered thousands of people from dozens of nearby villages... today they can barely gather 300 people for it... probably less in the future. Once they used to put lights everywhere and celebration would go on all night... today their choroi have to endure dust in their face.Our northern brothers who move into these places couldnt care less about their celebrations or old customs... they will fade. One less collection of kaurs on Albanian territory. Ever shrinking, shrinking and dying. Crumbling houses, a polluted nearby lake... Yes, it snows in Narta during winter. Its very pretty if you go by the old monastery... How does your favorite song go? Rain falls on the slums, rain falls on my heart? Well a Nartiot should say: "Snow falls on empty slums, snow doesnt fall on anyones heart... since none are there for it".
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Post by monsterofsouli on Dec 13, 2009 20:12:42 GMT -5
^^^ I have to say you kind of had me laughing. If that is true it is only a reflection of what a shit hole albania is. Anyways, you kind of remind me of the Grinch who stole Christmas.
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on Dec 13, 2009 20:25:12 GMT -5
Why do we care to have Greeks in Albania?
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Post by monsterofsouli on Dec 13, 2009 21:31:16 GMT -5
^^^^ I dont know. Albania is a crap hole and it is no wonder why Greeks are leaving as he claims. You know here in the United States usually when low class and lots of minorities move in the decent folks move out.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Dec 13, 2009 22:32:28 GMT -5
^^^ I have to say you kind of had me laughing. If that is true it is only a reflection of what a s**t hole albania is. Anyways, you kind of remind me of the Grinch who stole Christmas. Who said? Thats the fate of village life, and thus the fate of these small and isolated communities. The city of Vlora is flourishing. As is Durres, Tirana, etc. etc. Its these small villages that ensured the survival of these communities that are becoming empty shitholes. These Greeks have a choice: move to one of the major cities, which are 99% Albanian... or move to Greece. Their old village life is no longer productive. The youth who comes back is eager to leave again and go back to Athens or Selanik.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Dec 13, 2009 22:42:02 GMT -5
A special picture of "beautiful Arta" (locals dont like the name Narta) for Patrinos to enjoy: Their once large Easter celebration: ;D
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
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Post by Patrinos on Dec 14, 2009 4:25:21 GMT -5
They've been there for tens of centuries... i don't think that they'll ever forget... none Greek would like to become an Alvanos...
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on Dec 14, 2009 6:56:35 GMT -5
They got the colors right.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Dec 14, 2009 13:23:38 GMT -5
They've been there for tens of centuries... i don't think that they'll ever forget... none Greek would like to become an Alvanos... Okay... they can go back to their villages, and make 50 euros a month from fishing. The world is changing Patrinos... look at European countries. Where are the minorities? They dont exist... why do you think that is? Because of two words: urbanization and globelization.
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Post by monsterofsouli on Dec 14, 2009 13:52:45 GMT -5
^^^ Yeah globalization is crazy. People from countries like Nigeria, Albania, Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Palestine are migrating.
And by the way, minorities do exist. Wtf are you talking about?
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Post by todhrimencuri on Dec 14, 2009 14:01:00 GMT -5
Spain is the only real nation with minorities and mostly because it has a history of destabilization. Various autonomous zones promote it. France has almost no minorities left. The Germans on the eastern parts are almost entirely assimilated, the Britons as well. Germany has some small remaining Sorb communities that will die out in the coming generations... England.... assimilated all of her neighboring countries. Italy's minorities are also headed caput as they migrate from their traditional village into larger cities (Arberesh and Greco communities are looking to die out within the next generation or two). In northern Italian Tyrol the German community is also heading for extinction. Poland would have German communities... however what little remained after WWII left following the collapse of communism. Switzerland doesnt count since the communities feel Swiss, no matter what community. The Nordic countries dont really have any minorities left either.
Pretty much "New Europe" is the only one with viable communities: Hungarians of Romania (who have an urban base to survive on) and Turks of Bulgaria (I dont know if they have an urban base).
Other communities, if they lack an urban establishment or an autonomous cultural zone... die out through globalization. This includes the Greek community... which has absolutely no urban base. For them... to leave ur village means to become a Greek boat in an Albanian sea. Especially as northern ALbanians head south... and Kosovars will soon follow as well.
Its more than just migration. Its an entire shift in the makeup of the nation. The culture is being turned upside down and communities that remained essentially the same for thousands of years find that they can no longer sustain their way of life and still compete. Mass urbanization is destroying old communities that survived on their isolation. Look at how Vlachs and Arvanites in Greece lost their language and identity as they headed for the city. This is not an isolated event... its happening everywhere.
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PARIS DIO_MYSUS!
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It's Nice to be Important but It's more Important to be Nice!
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Post by PARIS DIO_MYSUS! on Dec 14, 2009 15:32:41 GMT -5
I don't speak good Greek and I don't look like a Greek. Last year I went to Athens and looking for any greek . They say that besides albanians there do not have and not want to hear the word greek. Greeks there in greece changed their identity and permanently became all Albanians! (Alba)
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Patrinos
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Peloponnesos uber alles
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Post by Patrinos on Dec 15, 2009 4:47:32 GMT -5
I like Kosovars.... they are better people than most tosks and Ghegs.... cept for Rex....he is a different animal altogether. ;D You keep threatening with Kosovars..... bring them on..... we make friends fast ....we had no contact with them...we don't know or hate each other.... actually Kosovo Albanians are Ghegs... and Ghegs have the reputation to be more "savage" than Tosks ... ou can thank God you had to enjoy Tosk domination (in a political and sexual meaning). naahh...we had the opportunity to meet tosks and gegs... we used to make fun of both and make ...pyramids of combined tosk-geg "material"... ....good old days...
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Dec 15, 2009 6:19:41 GMT -5
I erased all the unrelated replies in this thread. (such as sexually related replies or personal comments)This way we can concentrate on the issue which is "To what degree is Toskeria or S.Albania composed of Hellenic stock?"(some claim around 60% which appears correct) you being of joke, is not surprise about your coments because you claim also montengrins are of hellenic stock....while in fact even montengrin academy accept that 80% of montengrins are of albanian stock.
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Dec 15, 2009 7:03:04 GMT -5
Guys I just researched it and Tosks are definitely of Hellenic stock!
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
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Post by Patrinos on Dec 15, 2009 7:08:06 GMT -5
Tosks have also great ammount of slavic blood... (check it...the area of south albania where old Epiros extended has the fewest slavic toponyms...from Vjosa and westwards..) it must be the most mixed up area in balkans... Greeks, Illyrians, Romans, Albos, lots of Slavs, many many Vlachs, Turk efendis... etc etc... I bet that the majority of the toponyms of Toskeria are non-alb...
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Post by alb12345 on Dec 15, 2009 10:41:13 GMT -5
I dont know where do you get all this !!! An estimated 3.8 million Albanians live in Albania, amounting to 98.6% of the country's total population, making Albania one of the ethnically most homogenous states of Europe still we not like greece the only country in world that is 100% homogen. I wont start talking about epirus coz then i have to talk about chameria or ex albanian village athens.
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Post by Kastorianos on Dec 15, 2009 11:37:00 GMT -5
alb1234 this map shows villages with slavic toponyms which suggest slavic foundations...many centuries ago. The villagers are of course albanians by now...albanized and intermixed with native populations... since long time ago.
This map shall just show that you albanians had your sedentary invaders as well...Albania might be today a pretty homogenous country but that doesnt mean that you are ethnically unmixed.
And Athens has never been an albanian village as you call it...neither an arvanite village, it was always grecophone. The villages around it are another case. And as for Chameria...what do you want to tell us...there are hardly any villages in Epirus that have albanian names...if foreign then the names are (or were- under Metaxas most of them good a Greek name) slavic as well.
The interesting thing on the map is that Ghegeria which lies geographically further northern has less slavic toponyms than Toskeria which lies close to nonslavic Greece. Especially the region around the Prespes, next to Kastoria and Florina especially, seems to have the highest concentration of slavic names...not very different from the situation on the other (Greek) side of the border. As you go further southern (on the same latitude where the nomos Ioanninon begins) it becomes less slavic again.
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