Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Dec 25, 2009 17:50:19 GMT -5
wow i have been here for 4 years and am still shocked at some of the stuff that goes on. I have lost almost every part of my nationalism since i have been here how ironic. Man in my department there are 24 employees on my team. They decided to do the secret santa thing, they took it to a whole new level and give gifts every 3 days up until the school breaks up for new years holidays. On the final day they give the 'important' gift and have a glass of whatever alc has been brought in. So far my secret santa's little gifts have been: a bottle of vodka, 2 wine glasses, some romantic candles, chocolate, and lots of fruit n nuts. I think my secret santa has decided to seduce me lol You know what gets to me, how far they go to celebrate a christian holiday, whilst doing jack sh.it at Bayram. The school os overloaded with xmas trees and huge santa's all over the place. Ok the trees are an ancient Turkish ritual, but whats up with the santa's ? anyhow ... i shall from now on post all my feelings about Turkey here!
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Dec 25, 2009 17:58:19 GMT -5
Also I want to add here that there isn't a middle class in Turkey, or they are hiding somewhere....
theres the working class and the lower class, the divide is now huge.
The non religious Turks don't seem to have a true well balanced ego, they have a super ego, namely Ataturk. Whereas I would prefer them to be slightly more ID based. I have friends from so many different backgrounds and living circumstances that sometimes its overwhelming to comprehend how they co-exist with one another.
I hate the secret rules that must be followed to 'fit in' to society. The judgementalism is so hypocritical that its like a joke.
I have met a very few number of well balanced Turks... The sad thing is when I meet them they are generally packing their bags to leave Turkey or spend a generous amount of time outside the Turkish borders... pff
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Post by rusebg on Dec 25, 2009 18:31:20 GMT -5
Oh come on, Desire, you can drink vodka from wine glasses, what's this fuss about?
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Dec 26, 2009 2:50:35 GMT -5
Rusey I'm the only person to receive alcohol, this worries me!! its not like I ever go to work drunk!
Ok im not a very religious person, but while the others receive home made jams and stuff I get Vodka and wine glasses (on seperate days). Oh and my Secret santa also bought me make up, It's like this person thinks I'm out every night partying!!
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Post by todhrimencuri on Dec 26, 2009 2:59:58 GMT -5
I can say I noticed it with the no middle class thing here in my school in the US. Most Turks who come here seem to come from an upper upper class (one kid I know purchased a brand new mustange for the year he studied here). It seems that the only ones doing abroad studies are those coming from very wealthy families, as opposed to say, German exchange students, who come from more humble backgrounds.
What you mention are common problems among Balkan people in general. There is too much of these "honor" concepts that rule everything. Everyone judges you so there is no room for individuality. People act like sheep, everyone believes the certain ideas and if you dont fit into this... you are castigated from the group, insulted, attacked even.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Dec 26, 2009 3:18:25 GMT -5
You aren't really attacked or castigated. People don't like to act mean towards each other here, they generally will smile at you and be polite, but as soon as you are gone they rip you to pieces through deep debate regarding your clothes, family, words, actions etc. I have witnessed this once too often.
As for the students, there are a few types that go abroad to study: 1: Too wealthy for his own good, sadly not able to pass the University entry exams. 2: Too wealthy but has a huge complex which means he simply canot study in a low class Turkish university 3: The ones that gain bursaries.
One of my friends was no.1 and when was studying in london for 2 years he bought an audi TT and a BWM z3. He would spend his weekends in Istanbul.
There are a lot of exchange students in Turkey that I have come across and I don't see them hanging around with the Turks much.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Dec 26, 2009 3:53:05 GMT -5
Thats kind of what I mean. People will castigate you in a group, not necessarily infront of you. They will insult you afterwards, and ofcourse, at least from my exprience, everyone gossips so word gets around fast.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Dec 26, 2009 4:06:08 GMT -5
fast is an understatement.
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Post by chalkedon on Dec 26, 2009 16:09:09 GMT -5
wow i have been here for 4 years and am still shocked at some of the stuff that goes on. I have lost almost every part of my nationalism since i have been here how ironic. Man in my department there are 24 employees on my team. They decided to do the secret santa thing, they took it to a whole new level and give gifts every 3 days up until the school breaks up for new years holidays. On the final day they give the 'important' gift and have a glass of whatever alc has been brought in. So far my secret santa's little gifts have been: a bottle of vodka, 2 wine glasses, some romantic candles, chocolate, and lots of fruit n nuts. I think my secret santa has decided to seduce me lol You know what gets to me, how far they go to celebrate a christian holiday, whilst doing jack sh.it at Bayram. The school os overloaded with xmas trees and huge santa's all over the place. Ok the trees are an ancient Turkish ritual, but whats up with the santa's ? anyhow ... i shall from now on post all my feelings about Turkey here! Wow...its been 4 years already ?! Man am i getting old fast.....i remember when you said you were moving there. ;D BTW - losing your sense of nationalism is normal i think. I lost mine as well...I left america an ultra greek nationalist, now Im not even like that anymore ;D
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Post by chalkedon on Dec 26, 2009 16:15:10 GMT -5
Everything else you said is very similar to my experience living in Greece. I think most ppl from the diaspora go through this experience. Cultures like America and UK are not at all similar to us in the balkans. They dont have the complex that ppl here do. Sizing up each other, and jealousy are just a few examples i can mention.
Anyway...as the saying goes..when in rome, do what the romans do ;D
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Dec 26, 2009 23:54:50 GMT -5
I'm glad that there is another person who can empathise with the loss of nationanalistic feelings.
Thanks for that.
The lookds also sting, for instance when sometimes I speak in English with my friends I get the dirtiest looks from some people, then they ask why I speak English and I tell them it'sjust easier to explain myself. They look at me as though I am a traitor or something.
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Post by Vizier of Oz on Dec 27, 2009 4:49:56 GMT -5
Also I want to add here that there isn't a middle class in Turkey, or they are hiding somewhere.... theres the working class and the lower class, the divide is now huge. The non religious Turks don't seem to have a true well balanced ego, they have a super ego, namely Ataturk. Whereas I would prefer them to be slightly more ID based. I have friends from so many different backgrounds and living circumstances that sometimes its overwhelming to comprehend how they co-exist with one another. I hate the secret rules that must be followed to 'fit in' to society. The judgementalism is so hypocritical that its like a joke. I have met a very few number of well balanced Turks... The sad thing is when I meet them they are generally packing their bags to leave Turkey or spend a generous amount of time outside the Turkish borders... pff It sounds like you still go through some sort of orientation period. It takes time, I know since I have some Turkish friends from (Switzerland and the USA). They never really adapted here, but they got used to living in Turkey, of course after a decade. By the way, welcome back. Desire.
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Post by chalkedon on Dec 27, 2009 6:57:32 GMT -5
A decade sounds about right. Ive been here for 10 yrs now, but I still cant accept the mentality at times. Its very frustrating and I dont want to become like that... It gets harder and harder to defend your pride about your country when the ppl around you disappoint you the most.
At times I have always thought of moving back, but now with a family its more difficult. Sometimes I wish the company i work for will close down. That way I can get a nice severence check for 10 years and have the prime excuse to move back. ;D If thats not screwed up, i dont know what is...
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Know yourself...
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Dec 27, 2009 16:10:02 GMT -5
Well, I don't think a decade would be enough, I don't feel as though it's reality here. I go back to London as much as often just to feel normal again. I had no idea Turks were so superficial and complexed people. I mean there are people that I work with who wouldn't dream of comng to work without wearing an item of designer gear. Yet inside their heads : empty, no thoughts about politics, religion, and a serious lack of general knowledge. I feel frustrated so often, It's like whats wrong with people, all those Turks who live abroad so fiercely proud of their country, and these losers who are in love with American products, I mean we have such a rich culinery history, yet they all eat Mcdonalds and KFC and that kind of shit, all prefer to shop in French, Italian, and American stores as Turkish stuff is way too lower class for them... Sometimes I make a remark about it and they get shocked, just because I'm British they think that i am like them, I tell em I prefer to eat a kebab, go to a Turkish restaurant and drink a Raki for 50 lira, rather than go to an Italian place, drink expensive wine and eat food they can't pronounce for a 150 lira.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Dec 27, 2009 19:31:01 GMT -5
Desire, you are living in a society between western materialism and Islamic conservative traditionalism. A blend between the urban and the village minded. That is the place Turkey is in right now, just like my own country. The mindset of the people has not reached a proper level of enlightenment so as to really allow a great sense of individualism and open-mindedness. People still hold on to their village and group thinking. People have adopted aspects like secularism but they have not developed them by tradition. That is the inherent problem.
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Post by Vizier of Oz on Dec 28, 2009 3:10:50 GMT -5
A decade sounds about right. Ive been here for 10 yrs now, but I still cant accept the mentality at times. Its very frustrating and I dont want to become like that... It gets harder and harder to defend your pride about your country when the ppl around you disappoint you the most. Perhaps you should move to Khalkedon. After all, that is where you belong to. ;D Repatriation could cause even bigger problems. However, you are the one who must decide what it best for you and your family.
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Post by Vizier of Oz on Dec 28, 2009 3:33:03 GMT -5
I tell em I prefer to eat a kebab, go to a Turkish restaurant and drink a Raki for 50 lira, rather than go to an Italian place, drink expensive wine and eat food they can't pronounce for a 150 lira. Good choice.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Dec 28, 2009 13:09:33 GMT -5
Yes I agree, there is a lack of individualism which inhibits free thinkers expressing their inner wants and needs, their true opinions are silenced by a society created and established by themselves. This leads to a suppression of feelings and thoughts, ending with a society of unbalanced souls, committing treachery to their own human nature. If one betrays their own beliefs in order to fit into a superficial group of which they have no real place how can this not end in complexes, jealousy, hatred, crime, and so forth.
These people have been so manipulated and controlled by others similar to themselves that, if set free they can only create the same society as they know of nothing else.
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Post by hellboy87 on Dec 29, 2009 0:29:11 GMT -5
See dy! Remember what i told you? When I critic your countrys mentality? Culture?
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Know yourself...
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Dec 29, 2009 11:52:05 GMT -5
U haven't said anything of any substance to me ever. Do not join this thread, just go away.
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