Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Apr 26, 2010 9:41:30 GMT -5
And what is found in Turkey appears to be more similiar to Greek, Persian,Armenian and Middle Eastern foods.
for example which one ?
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Post by oszkarthehun on Apr 28, 2010 3:42:03 GMT -5
And what is found in Turkey appears to be more similiar to Greek, Persian,Armenian and Middle Eastern foods. for example which one ? well which food appears to be purely derived from Turkic tribes or peoples and not otherwise related to foods of Turkeys neighbours and historical peoples of Anatolia. For example to look at some of the foods you have highlighted... "PLOV" Pilaf, also called poloپلو , polao, pilau, pilav, pilaff, plov or pulao in their adopted languages (Turkish, Azerbaijani, Kazakh, Kyrgyz, Marathi, Uzbek, Turkmen, Urdu, Hindi, Pashto, Persian, Armenian etc.) and in Greek - (Pilafi-Πιλαφί), is a dish in which a grain, such as rice or cracked wheat, is browned in oil, and then cooked in a seasoned broth. In some cases, the rice may also attain its brown color by being stirred with bits of burned onion, as well as a large mix of spices. The English term pilaf is borrowed directly from Turkish, but all these terms ultimately derive from (Classical) Persian پلو , which is pronounced [paˈlau] in Persian (Dari), and in standard Iranian Persian, polów. In Urdu is pronounced pulāo پلاو. Depending on the local cuisine, it may also contain a variety of meat and vegetables. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilafçörek.Tsoureki (Greek τσουρέκι), çörek (Turkish), panarët (Arbërisht), choreg (Armenian չորեկ), or çörək (Azerbaijani). are a sweet bread in Albania, Bosnia, Azerbaijani, Greek, Cypriot, Bulgarian cuisine, Arbëresh cuisine, Turkish, and Armenian cuisine. It is formed of braided strands of dough. Çörək is also the Azerbaijani name for bread. The ethymology of the word directs us to the Turkish word çevre-k (çevirmek) for to round, rounded etc[1]. Greek traditions Rich brioche-like breads (often braided) are known by various different Greek names that represent three major holidays for Greeks: Easter, Christmas and New Year's. There are many local varieties of these festive breads, based around the use of milk (instead of water) for kneading the flour, eggs, butter, yeast, and a flavoring agent which is usually either mahleb or Chian mastic. A good tsoureki should be soft, moist and fluffy, yet stringy and chewy. If anything, it should be slightly underbaked rather than overbaked Tsoureki / Lambropsomo/ Lambrokoulouras: Easter Bread Τσουρέκι / λαμπρόψωμο: symbolizing the resurrection of Christ. In ecclesiastical Greek, Easter Sunday is also called Λαμπρή ("Bright") Sunday, thus it is the bread served after the resurrection of Jesus Christ. The Greek word Lambropsomo is a combination of two words: lambro (Greek: λαμπρό) which means "bright light"; and psomo (Greek: -ψωμο from ψωμί) which means bread: lambropsomo translates to shining-bread or the epiphany-bread, representing the light given to Christians by Christ's resurrection and the passing over from what we are to what Risen Lord wants us to be: "partakers of divine nature". Another name for this is "Λαμπροκουλούρας" Lamprokoulouras, which means the same. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TsourekiChai TeaChai (Hindi: चाय, Urdu: چاۓ) is the word for "tea" in much of South Asia and many other parts of the world.[2] For the etymology of chai and related words see Etymology and cognates of tea. Although coffee is a more popular beverage in some southern parts of India, chai is ubiquitous throughout South Asia, where street vendors called "chai wallahs" (sometimes spelled "chaiwalas") are a common sight. Chai is also a popular item in the genre of South Asian restaurants known as Irani cafés or Chai Khanas. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaias for foods such as dumplings filled with meat well thats an extremly broad dish that can be found in so many countries who knows what its origins are,but I would imagine possibly chinese or from that region. KebabThe word kabab (کباب) is ultimately from Persian and originally meant fried not grilled meat.[1] The Arabic word possibly derives from Aramaic כבבא kabbābā, which probably has its origins in Akkadian kabābu meaning "to burn, char".[2] In the 14th century, kebab is defined to be synonymous with tabahajah, a Persian word for a dish of fried meat pieces. The Persian word was considered more high-toned in the medieval period. Kebab was used frequently in Persian books of that time to refer to meatballs made of ground or pounded chicken or lamb [3][4][5]. In the modern period, kebab gained its current meaning of shish kebab, whereas earlier shiwa` شواء had been the Arabic word for grilled meat. The origin of kebab may lie in the short supply of cooking fuel in the Near East, which made the cooking of large foods difficult, while urban economies made it easy to obtain small cuts of meat at a butcher's shop.[1] The phrase is essentially Persian in origin and Arabic tradition has it that the dish was invented by medieval Iranic soldiers who used their swords to grill meat over open-field fires. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KebabI eat a lot of Persian food and I can tell you that the Turkish Adana Kebab is very similiar to the Iranian/Persian Koobideh Kebab even how they serve it with the green pepper on the side etc is very similiar. Its easy to see the connections. not certain but Baklava may be a food that has central asian Turkic origins but I recall also having read somewhere else that its thought to be of Assyrian origins.
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Post by hellboy87 on Apr 28, 2010 11:22:07 GMT -5
I dont know why DY has such a complex that Turkish culture is largely a mix of other cultures.
Almost or maybe all ethnic groups have aspects of their culture that come from another culture or ethnic group.
The culture of the Turkics who came to Anatolia,is a mix of Turkic+Persian+Arabic.
Now,they did not populate Anatolia,but got many of its people assimilated into them.And those people were Greeks,Armenians,Kurds,Assyrians and others,so all these Anatolian cultures blended together with the culture that the Turkics brought over.
Again,Turkics were referred to by Arabs,Persians,ancient Chinese and others as barbarians.So dont expect much from them culturally,except when it comes to fighthing stuff(which they did have,and were good at).
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Post by thracian08 on Apr 28, 2010 14:00:19 GMT -5
u seem to have an understanding problem HB.
No one denies that people who live together in an Empire, and also the food available in different lands influence their cuisine. However, there are distinctly Turkish foods which I can go ahead and list for you that is not part of the former Anatolian people's cuisine;
kaymak ayran boza borek manti
Corek is Turkish not, what you list Ozkart. It's in Central Asia still today. Yogurt is also Turkish.
all the doughy and yogurt like stuff is Turkish.
Kilims are Turkish
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Post by hellboy87 on Apr 28, 2010 14:33:23 GMT -5
"Corek is Turkish not, what you list Ozkart. It's in Central Asia still today. Yogurt is also Turkish."
Persian and their Indo-Iranian kinsmen were in CA before the Turkics.And the Turkic mixed with them and incorporated their culture.
By the way,I did not say there is no Turkic aspect to Turkish culture.
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Post by thracian08 on Apr 28, 2010 16:25:07 GMT -5
And so were the Scythians, the Huns, Mongols, and others.
You can claim that about nearly any people who have lived under an Empire then.
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Post by hellboy87 on Apr 28, 2010 18:23:14 GMT -5
Scythians are Indo-Iranians.The Huns,Mongols came after the Indo-Iranians settled there.Also,the Mongol armies included lots of Turkics.
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Post by oszkarthehun on Apr 28, 2010 18:37:05 GMT -5
Turkish refers to the region of Turkey which is not purely or by origin purely Turkic so when you say something is Turkish does not mean it was exclusively central asian Turkic by origin.
However several of the dishes you mentioned above may well be Turkic in origin although I am not certain about Ayran as even the name seems to infer a Persian aspect.
HellBoy makes a point when he said that central asia was not exclusively Turkic , and its true Iranic peoples were there also and for sure there was mixing between Turkics and Iranics.
Corek is Turkish name for this bread, there are as I listed Greek and other nationalities names also eg Armenian etc. Maybe the Turkic Corek has its own history I dont know but as the article mentioned the Greek and other similiar Orthodox type breads were connected to Christian tradition, whether the Corek is independant by history or connected to that I dont know.
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Post by thracian08 on Apr 28, 2010 18:54:43 GMT -5
look it up, Corek is from Central Asia. All those things I listed are not Iranian, Greek, etc.
Of course, but I don't think it was much actually.
I think there was more mixing in Turkey Turks with locals than Central Asian ones.
Many Greeks have Turkish words in their vocabulary as well.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Apr 29, 2010 9:08:46 GMT -5
The point you try to make about Pilav is very ambigious. The name derives from persian.. so what? The way that pilav is made in Turkey is similar to that made in Central asia, and different to that made in iran, It is made according to the Turkish 'way' of cooking. Distinctly making it a Turkish pilav. Do you understand this concept? because if not we can actually use your example to say all grains come from africa therefore all food is african. LOL I hope this has helped your understanding on this subject. Therefore Turkish Pilav and central asian pilav are part of a mutual culture.
Corek is Turkish .. so whats your point there? It has been made in central asia before the Turks ever came to the west.
The Greeks may have made it part of their traditions, does it feature in ancient Greek history? They lived with Turks a very long time. They probably adopted it.
The point you are missing is that Turkish foods, have Turkish culture, we use different herbs and ways of cooking, the traditional way of eating, the procedures etc are all Turkish.
500 years ago a man in the congo may have put a pig on a spit it doesnt mean that kebab is congolese... LOL
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Post by hellboy87 on Apr 29, 2010 10:59:48 GMT -5
When we say not Turkish or Turkic,we're talking about the origins of it.The traceable part.
Just because something was made in CA does not make it originally Turkic.Why cant you just give it up that the Persians and their Indo-Iranian kinsmen gave you Turkics sooooo much?
Greek lived with Turks for a long time,but we all know that they gave Turks so much but not the other way round.
It seems that the Ataturk Kemalist mentality of being big and grandiose is very much part of the mentality of Turks.Oh wait! The impact of the Sun Language Theory me thinks!
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Post by thracian08 on Apr 30, 2010 12:02:33 GMT -5
All those things that I wrote are Turkish in origin. You cannot deny that.
Turkish food is different from Iranian- there is no similarity whatsoever.
We actually gave a lot to Iranians and Greeks. Even all the Rulers of Iranians were Turkish!
Why do you bring up the sun theory which has nothing to do with this topic.
No one denies that people influence each other, however, there are some things traditions which are distinctly Turkish.
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Post by thracian08 on Apr 30, 2010 12:07:48 GMT -5
here are two other traditions:
We were watching an old Ahu Tuðba movie yesterday on the SinemaTürk Channel of DigiTürk (our satellite TV provider), and in the space of less than 90 seconds we saw two of our favorite Turkish traditions enacted.
In the first one, a departing younger person (in this movie's case, the young hero) quickly kisses the right-hand of an older woman (his mother) and still holding her hand, he raises it and touches it to his forehead. And, he repeats that exact same act with the older woman's husband (his father). This is the traditional way in Turkey to demonstrate heartfelt respect -- either to someone older than yourself or to someone you admire greatly.
You'll see the tradition practiced a lot by children with adults, especially at bayram (holiday) time...when the kids come to pay their respects -- and to collect candy or your spare-change money or both. But it's also a great thing for a son-in-law (or daughter-in-law) to do when greeting parents-in-law after a long separation from them. It's a very endearing act. Mothers-in-law, especially, melt when younger people do this...
In the enactment of the second tradition, the same young man (after his respectful hand-kissing) jumps in his car with his girlfriend... and as he drives off, the older woman dips a wok-like water scoop (curiously called a saç in Turkish) into a nearby water barrel, scoops out some water and flings the water (only) after the departing car.
This is the traditional way in Turkey to bid fond farewell to loved ones who are setting out on a long journey by road vehicle. Actually any container can be used to throw the water from...a glass or a cup would serve just as well. The tradition itself serves to express a wish -- that the long journey will go smoothly, without mishap. As smooth as water.
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Post by thracian08 on Apr 30, 2010 12:13:17 GMT -5
There are also the Asik Singers - like Turkish blues played with a Turkish instrument called the Saz which is all over Central Asia. The Greeks or Persians don't have this.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Apr 30, 2010 12:49:30 GMT -5
Some more Turkish traditions
Kina Gecesi Sunnet party the prayer 40 days after the death of someone (mevlit)
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Post by thracian08 on Apr 30, 2010 13:20:35 GMT -5
Mevlid is a total Turkish tradition - No Arabs or Iranians have this. So true DY
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Post by hellboy87 on Apr 30, 2010 14:44:47 GMT -5
"Sunnet party" ? I think they have something like that here as well
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Simarik Turkish Pwincess
Know yourself...
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Apr 30, 2010 15:39:53 GMT -5
It is very different to how the Turks do their Sunnet parties. Turkish Traditions
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
Senior Moderator
Simarik Turkish Pwincess
Know yourself...
Posts: 3,563
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Apr 30, 2010 15:40:13 GMT -5
Aso Turkish weddings also very different
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Post by oszkarthehun on Apr 30, 2010 17:53:28 GMT -5
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