Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Apr 10, 2010 8:41:57 GMT -5
Ashina Turks might have possessed features different from other Huns. In the 17th year of Western Wei's Datong era, i.e., AD 551, Turkic Khan Tumen (Bumin) obtained Toba Princess Changle as a bride. In the first year of Western Wei Emperor Feidi, Tumen defeated the Ruruans and Tumen declared himself Khan Yili. Tumen's son, named Keluo, was Khan Yixiji, and he would defeat Ruruan Khan's brother (Dengshuzi). Yixiji's brother, Sijin (Sinjibu?), aka Yandu, would succeed Khan Yixiji as Khan Muchu. Sijin was recorded to be red-faced and possess eyes like "liuli" [now meaning brown and green imperial construction, previously meaning five-color glass].
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Post by hellboy87 on Apr 10, 2010 15:04:18 GMT -5
DNA studies say otherwise.
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Apr 10, 2010 16:28:51 GMT -5
Lies... there aren't dna studies of ancient Turks don't try to lie to disprove me when u know I am right, its so infantile
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Post by hellboy87 on Apr 10, 2010 23:41:52 GMT -5
Talking about DNA on Turkics of Central Asia.
Altaics are northeast Asians
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
Senior Moderator
Simarik Turkish Pwincess
Know yourself...
Posts: 3,563
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Apr 11, 2010 8:47:50 GMT -5
There are no studies if ancient Turks, there are only studies of modern day populations regarding Turks. Therefore your data is insufficient. bye
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Post by hellboy87 on Apr 12, 2010 6:33:38 GMT -5
The original Turkics' descendants are still in the world today,likewise for the Indo-Europeans.
Hell,Turkey's Anatolian population is indigenous,thus super old.
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Post by Vizier of Oz on Apr 12, 2010 7:03:16 GMT -5
There are no studies if ancient Turks, there are only studies of modern day populations regarding Turks. Therefore your data is insufficient. bye There are some DNA studies on ancient Turks, such as Cumans who settled in Hungary in 13th Century: The Cumanians were originally Asian pastoral nomads who in the 13th century migrated to Hungary. We have examined mitochondrial DNA from members of the earliest Cumanian population in Hungary from two archeologically well-documented excavations and from 74 modern Hungarians from different rural locations in Hungary. Haplogroups were defined based on HVS I sequences and examinations of haplogroup-associated polymorphic sites of the protein coding region and of HVS II. To exclude contamination, some ancient DNA samples were cloned. A database was created from previously published mtDNA HVS I sequences (representing 2,615 individuals from different Asian and European populations) and 74 modern Hungarian sequences from the present study. This database was used to determine the relationships between the ancient Cumanians, modern Hungarians, and Eurasian populations and to estimate the genetic distances between these populations. We attempted to deduce the genetic trace of the migration of Cumanians. This study is the first ancient DNA characterization of an eastern pastoral nomad population that migrated into Europe. The results indicate that, while still possessing a Central Asian steppe culture, the Cumanians received a large admixture of maternal genes from more westerly populations before arriving in Hungary. A similar dilution of genetic, but not cultural, factors may have accompanied the settlement of other Asian nomads in Europe.muse.jhu.edu/login?uri=/journals/human_biology/v077/77.5szabo.pdfWhich means that the Cumans of the 13th Century did not look like Asiatics. The Chuvash are believed to originate from the ancient Bulgars that inhabited the western region of the Volga River and came from Central Asia in the 4th century A.D. The Great Bulgaria was divided into five different hordes, the fourth corresponding to the Chuvash and the fifth representing present-day Bulgarians (see introductory paragraphs). From the data obtained in the present work, the genetic backgrounds of both populations are clearly different. The Chuvash have a central European and some Mediterranean genetic background (probably coming from the Caucasus), while the Bulgarians have a classical eastern Mediterranean composition, grouping with Macedonians and Iranians in the neighbor-joining trees obtained by using DR and DQ genetic distances (Figure 4) and confirmed by correspondence analysis (Figure 5). It is possible that only a cultural and low genetic Bulgar influence was brought into the region without modifying the genetic background of the local population.
The Chuvash relatedness to Caucasian (Georgians) and Middle Eastern people suggests that the Chuvash genetic pool has characteristics from ancient Middle Eastern, Caucasian, and Mesopotamian people. A south-to-north gene flow may then be postulated for the Chuvash while only northern European or Asian relatedness was previously postulated (Livs**ts et al. 1999a). Middle East, Anatolian, and Caucasian people are likely to genetically represent the ancient population stock of the area, that is, Hittites and Mesopotamians. Other invasions have had a noticeable cultural but not a genetic impact (Arnaiz-Villena et al. 2001c, 2002). On the other hand, whether the Chuvash are a remnant of the Bulgar Hordes cannot be resolved with the data presented in this paper, and further studies are necessary.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3659/is_200306/ai_n9288054/pg_5/?tag=content;col1So, the Turkic Chuvash peoples are alike the Caucasians and Anatolians even though they never been to Anatolia. Interesting isn't it? Ancient grave in the Egyin Gol necropolis. Courtesy E. Crubezy, Université Paul Sabatier, Toulouse, France
DNA from a 2,000-year-old burial site in Mongolia has revealed new information about the Xiongnu, a nomadic tribe that once reigned in Central Asia. Researchers in France studied DNA from more than 62 skeletons to reconstruct the history and social organization of a long-forgotten culture. The researchers found that interbreeding between Europeans and Asians occurred much earlier than previously thought. They also found DNA sequences similar to those in present-day Turks, supporting the idea that some of the Turkish people originated in Mongolia. www.genomenewsnetwork.org/articles/07_03/ancient.shtmlSo, 2000 years ago, there were people in Mongolia who looked like the present day Turks of Turkey, and they did not look like the Asians. That is rather hard to swallow for some, I reckon.
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Post by hellboy87 on Apr 12, 2010 9:20:54 GMT -5
You are misinterpreting those results.
No one said there is no one in Turkey with Turkic DNA.All the other DNA I have seen have stated there are,but only a minority have it.This is prove that the Turkics did come to Anatolia.It's just that the Turkics did not populate Anatolia.
As for the Cumans,it is saying that they are indigenous.
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Post by thracian08 on Apr 12, 2010 12:11:06 GMT -5
Most Turks,Kurds and Iranians look the same!
You are very wrong here. In the USA, I see many Iranians, Kurds, and they do not have Turkish features.
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Post by thracian08 on Apr 12, 2010 12:28:19 GMT -5
Kurd Attachments:
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Post by thracian08 on Apr 12, 2010 12:28:37 GMT -5
Iranian Attachments:
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Post by hellboy87 on Apr 12, 2010 13:01:30 GMT -5
Most Turks,Kurds and Iranians look the same! You are very wrong here. In the USA, I see many Iranians, Kurds, and they do not have Turkish features. Where are all those pictures of Iraqi Turkmens that I posted? They look the same as Iranians,Kurds and Arabs. And of course Kurds dont look like Albanians and Bosniaks in Turkey who shine that you're happy about.PUH LEASE!!!
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Apr 12, 2010 13:27:03 GMT -5
LOL
Its like your little brain doesn't get it. Turks mix with the populations they live with, therefore they may take upon features of the locals, this doesn't make their features the defining face of a Turk. Turks in Bulgaria, look different from Turks in Afganistan. Turks in Turkey look different from both. YET as Vizier posted... the dna found is the same as in Central asia. Therefore, there were Turks who looked like the Turks of Turkey living in Mongolia, not mixed with ANYONE. So.. then who took on who's looks? considering Turks were the conquerors.... I really wonder... all these people Iranians, kurds, Arabs, were continously under Turks rules for hundreds of years... hmmm
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
Senior Moderator
Simarik Turkish Pwincess
Know yourself...
Posts: 3,563
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Apr 12, 2010 13:28:28 GMT -5
By the way when nI was lil kid in primary school my mum met this Azeri women, who told us - we are the real Turks, turks of Turkey and Cyprus have been diluted. She looked just like any other Turk, green eyes, black hair light skin. so stfu hb
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Post by hellboy87 on Apr 12, 2010 14:05:30 GMT -5
LOL Its like your little brain doesn't get it. Turks mix with the populations they live with, therefore they may take upon features of the locals, this doesn't make their features the defining face of a Turk. Turks in Bulgaria, look different from Turks in Afganistan. Turks in Turkey look different from both. YET as Vizier posted... the dna found is the same as in Central asia. Therefore, there were Turks who looked like the Turks of Turkey living in Mongolia, not mixed with ANYONE. So.. then who took on who's looks? considering Turks were the conquerors.... I really wonder... all these people Iranians, kurds, Arabs, were continously under Turks rules for hundreds of years... hmmm The studies that janny posted stated that Cumanians have DNA similar to their neighbours and that Mongolian DNA is also found among peoples in Turkey. There was mixing all over.Whenever an ethnic group the territory of another ethnic group,there was mixing on various levels. Likewise for the Turkics.BUT! Their genetic contribution to peoples who speak a Turkic language in Iran,Azerbaijan,Iraq,Syria,Turkey and much of Eastern Europe,is small.The Turkics DID NOT POPULATE these areas as they did in mainland Central Asia,hence the Northeast Asian features of Turkic Central Asians. Fact is,real Turkics look like their fellow Altaians:the Japanese,the Koreans,the Mongolians and the Tunguistic peoples. Turkics ruled large areas and left a mostly large linguistic legacy areas where they ruled. Most Anatolian Turks do not descend from Turkics,and throughout Ottoman history they did not call themselves "Turks".For them,Turk is a derogatory word=uncouth peasant lout. THEY DIDNT EVEN HAVE A SENSE OF TURKICNESS TO BEGIN WITH! They just adopted the culture of the originally Turkic rulers!
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Post by thracian08 on Apr 12, 2010 14:11:57 GMT -5
yeah, compare the pics DY posted with the Kurds and Iranians, and see that Kurds Iranians look the same, and Turks are different. She didn't post Bosnians !
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Post by thracian08 on Apr 12, 2010 14:13:31 GMT -5
u also completely ignored by post about Turkic epics like Dede Korkut. You only talk the way you want to see it, not the way IT IS!
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Post by thracian08 on Apr 12, 2010 14:15:19 GMT -5
If the Turks looked like Mongolians as u claim, then why did Chinese people say that Turks had green eyes, and looked different than them???
Chinese, Japanese, Koreans have no colored hair or eyes; and Turks in Central Asia do have colored eyes and hair! How do you explain that??
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Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning
Senior Moderator
Simarik Turkish Pwincess
Know yourself...
Posts: 3,563
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Post by Dèsîŗĕ Yèarning on Apr 12, 2010 15:23:47 GMT -5
He can't explain, he is just on a campaign totally blinded by his hate towards Turks.
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Post by hellboy87 on Apr 12, 2010 15:23:51 GMT -5
What about dede korkut? Nothing to do with this!
The Chinese who said that Turkics had those light colouring were mostly like Indo-Europeans.They travelled as far East to West China.They settled in Central Asia.The Uzbeks and Turkmens of CA who have European colourings are their descendants.In Central Asia,the Turkics settled there en masse and likewise with intermarriage with the locals.Hence,the "Turanian" look.
YOU ARE STILL NOT RESPONDING ON THE FEATURES OF THE IRAQI TURKMENS!
The "Turks" that DY posted consists of Anatolians and Muhacirs obviously.And plenty of the latter.
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