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Post by ljubotan on Jun 24, 2010 10:19:14 GMT -5
First off, the Malisors of Montenegro stress that they're very DIFFERENT than Macedonian Albanians!!! They are very proud yes, but yet distinguish themselves as the 'best Albanians' of the rest especially from the aforementioned.
Acutally Albanians from Montenegro have a high degree of respect and friendship with their fellow Montenegrin Serbs. Not only have some families mixed throughout the centuries but the Malisors know Montenegrins are not as easy going as Serbians and Macedonians, and would get their azzez handed to them from Montenegrin Serbs!
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Post by logjiktek on Jun 24, 2010 11:07:34 GMT -5
First off, the Malisors of Montenegro stress that they're very DIFFERENT than Macedonian Albanians!!! They are very proud yes, but yet distinguish themselves as the 'best Albanians' of the rest especially from the aforementioned. I know they do, they even distinguish themselves from many other Albanians because they are very clannish and a proud group. Malsors are also very religiously Catholic and would probably see themselves a bit differ than an Albanian from Macedonia who tend to be religiously Muslim (not on the same level as faith as a Malsor, but close in some regions.) Malsors hold on dearly to the fact they resisted converting to Islam and b/c so believe they are the purest and most patriotic Albanians for resisting conversion. They're proud people to put it bluntly. I find it hard to believe they would admit to having "shkja" blood. Malsors are the type of people that would shoot you for saying such a thing! Acutally Albanians from Montenegro have a high degree of respect and friendship with their fellow Montenegrin Serbs. Not only have some families mixed throughout the centuries but the Malisors know Montenegrins are not as easy going as Serbians and Macedonians, and would get their azzez handed to them from Montenegrin Serbs! Ye ye ye. Most Malsors compare the Slavic rule to the Ottoman rule which shows the contempt they have for both for both groups. But hey, if you met these kind in Detroit, who am I to say....
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Post by MurlaniHotit on Jun 24, 2010 11:42:50 GMT -5
Let me clarify. Malesors never admit to a Serb/Montenegrin origin, we just claim that many of the Montengrins bordering the Malesor tribes were at one point Albanian, and more recently (even as recently as 50 years ago) spoke Albanian. We believe that Kuci, Vasojeviqi (a brother tribe of Hoti), Piperi (a brother tribe of Hoti), Bijelopavliqi (who are related to Dukagjini clans), and others are Albanian in origin. Obviously they don't want to have anything to do with us now, so we don't say that they are Albanian, but we do say they are Albanian in origin.
The Malesor tribes (especially Koja e Kucit, Trieshi, and Fundnat) have always has very close relations with the Kuci tribe. There was intermarriage and such until recently with the rise of Serb nationalism in them. My older relatives from Koja e Kucit say that for example the Kuci people of the Rahova (or Rahoja in Albanian) area spoke Albanian and their women wore Xhubleta's as recently as 50 years ago.
In fact this past year on the Feast of Shen Shtjefeni, two Montenegrin girls from Kuci competed in the Miss Bjeshka competition, which is a yearly tradition for us Malesor's. On this feast, Malesor girls find the old Xhubleta's of their ancestor's and wear them in a beauty contest. Obviously these 2 Kuci girls had some as well and were allowed to compete.
It is also true that we are proud of our Albanian heritage and Catholic faith. For example, I am Malesor from Hoti (and very proud of this as are all men of Hoti) and I can list off my entire family tree down to the founder named Keqi who migrated from Bosnia in the 1400's.
With regard to fearing Montenegrins, you are mistaken. I don't know of a single Malesor that fears a Montenegrin. We coexist because we've done so for centuries but when the Montenegrin authorities wanted to knock down the structures that were built in Vitoja (which is right off of Liqeni i Shkodres) because it was considered unauthorized and built on a "national park" (even though the people who own that land pay taxes on it), the Malesors threatened to take up arms to defend it and the authorities backed down.
Don't get things twisted. We aren't stupid and we see how things are going right now. We don't want to stir things because the world (and especially the EU) is sick of wars in the Balkans. We want to fight for our rights using all legal and procedural means, such as international courts and such.
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Post by ljubotan on Jun 24, 2010 11:43:54 GMT -5
I recall asking a couple guys I went to school because they said their mom's were Montenegrins. They acknowledged that mixing was very common between the 2 where they coxisted in the same villages.
Both sides are very proud and I'm sure some clans have mixed, but moreso the one's near the borders of Pec, Northern Albania and around Skadarsko jezero, Bar and Ulcinj. Very common towards the sea of CG that some churches had dual alters in both Orthodox and Catholic. That is most common from what I heard in Sutomore, Bar and Ulcinj where its majority Montenegrin Serbs and Albanian.
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Post by ljubotan on Jun 24, 2010 11:56:08 GMT -5
murlanihotit
Not trying to twist anything just my observation from what I've heard from Montenegrin Serbs when I was there a long while ago.
Very interesting summary as I'm not from Montenegro, but I'd like to hear from some Montenegrin Serbs on this...
I have noticed a very very strong resemblence between Montenegrins and Malesors!! That alone says a lot. In Detroit, the Macedonian community and Serbian community are always skeptical to get involved with a Montenegrin male/female because it has always been spread in former lands that Montenegrins were Albanian or resemble their mentality (eye for an eye). I personally think that's generalizing too much as Serbdom began in Montenegro; therefore, they weren't Albanian then. I did not know that Albanians existed in Bosnia in the 1400's???
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Post by MurlaniHotit on Jun 24, 2010 12:41:47 GMT -5
Yes Albanians lived in Bosnia in the 1400's. I know that many of the Malesor tribes originated in the Herzegovina region, including Hoti, Gruda, part of Trieshi, and Shkreli. In some of the folk songs sung by Malesor's about Muji and Halili (which are legends that are sung about on the Lahute), two places are always mentioned, Lugjet e Verdha (the Yellow Valleys) and Jutbina. I guess there is a place in Hezegovina named Udbina (http://www.fallingrain.com/world/BK/02/Udbina2.html) which could likely be the place of origin of the Malesor tribes, but no one is sure.
According to our history, when Bosnia and Herzegovina fell to the Turks, the Slavs flooded to the mountainous areas to escape the Turks, and the Albanian populations which lived there previously were forced from these territories. They then began a search for a new place to settle and eventually reached Northern Albania where they found a population which spoke the same language as them and was sparsely populated.
The reason for the sparse population was because at that time Albania was constantly at war with the Turks (this was in the lifetime of Skenderbeu) and because of blood feuds among themselves. For example, there was a large and important Albanian tribe named Hoti (which can be attested to by Venetian documents from the 1300's), which lived where my ancestor's eventually settled.
This Hoti tribe (or the Old Hoti as they are called now) got into a conflict with the Balshaj, Kelmendi, and Kuci tribes because they supported the Venetians rather than the Balshaj's for local power, so they went to war with each other. The old Hoti were annihilated, and forced to migrate from this land.
Many of them migrated to a place now called Hoti, which is close to Plav near the border with Kosova. Others migrated to a village called Lim (or Limaj) in Kosova, and yet others throughout the rest of Albania. So when my ancestor's reached Hoti, there were only a few houses of th old Hoti left there. The new Hoti decided that they would settle among these people adopt the name of the area to themselves, thus there are 2 different tribes of Hoti, the old and the new. I descend from the new Hoti.
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Post by ljubotan on Jun 24, 2010 13:50:30 GMT -5
Thanks for that history lesson! Very interesting how Albanians stretched all the way to Hercegovina. I'm not surprised at all, because Hercegovina is many people (or Bosnia in general) that resemble Albanian features, and it's considered the sister region to Montenegro due to all their similarities (customs, dress, dialects, personalities etc).
So basically before the Malesors came into N. Albania and Montenegro in the 14th century, Zeta/Montenegro had no Albanians?
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Post by MurlaniHotit on Jun 24, 2010 22:16:02 GMT -5
I wouldn't say that. The Old Hoti (which are still Albanian), Kelmendi (which are still Albanian), and Kuci (which were Albanian at the time) all resided in Zeta when the old Hoti fought the war against the Balshaj (or as I'm sure you probably know them, the Balsic).
So the old Hoti sided with the Venetians against the Balshaj's in the hopes that the Venetians would rule over Zeta. Now here is another point of contention among Malesors and Montenegrins/Serbs. We believe that the Balsha were Albanians but heavily influenced by Slavs.
To us, the Balsha were Albanian because they were listed as Albanian Princes when they joined the League of Lezha under Skenderbeu, while the Crnojevic, who also joined were clearly noted as not being Albanian but Slavic. So to us, Zeta although not entirely Albanian, it was heavily Albanian.
As I mentioned, one of the reasons the Malesors settled in the region they currently live is because they found a population which spoke the same language as them.
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Post by terroreign on Feb 7, 2011 1:46:32 GMT -5
Right because this mythical 'league of Lezha' was the leading authority on ethnicity back in the day Balsici, like the Kelmendi, Hoti and all the Albanian tribes, are Serbs. Only the Balsici stuck to their roots and fought the traitors (aka your ancestors).
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Post by kolonia on Feb 20, 2011 15:14:57 GMT -5
Right because this mythical 'league of Lezha' was the leading authority on ethnicity back in the day Balsici, like the Kelmendi, Hoti and all the Albanian tribes, are Serbs. Only the Balsici stuck to their roots and fought the traitors (aka your ancestors). hahahaha...this guy is calling me a serb now hahahahahah
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