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Post by terroreign on Dec 5, 2010 15:12:12 GMT -5
The Berishas descend from the old Montenegrin Berislavcevic's anyways so its all good! Well I guess it depends on pespective. Since you are probably from Kosova, familiar with Kosovar Albanian looks, instead of the Tosks...what's to say the Tosks aren't the purest (their lang is used as the standard), and the Ghegs are a bit deviated since their realm has been under Serbian rule and has historically had a significant population of Serbs, any discrepancies in their looks from Tosks are attributed to Serbs. The Vasojevici I put are from an old Vasojevici book that goes over their tribal history...how dont you find that representable
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Post by odel on Dec 5, 2010 16:06:15 GMT -5
They look pretty weird if you ask me, thats why I said that. Also I don't think that historic figures and such are representative, it's better to use regular, normal, average people.
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Post by Babylon Enigma on Dec 5, 2010 19:50:05 GMT -5
^Yes but this is an assimilation of Albanians who were previously Serbs in the 13th and 12th centuries I would not agree with you that Old Serbs were Slavs. Serbs were at best Sarmato-Slavs, ie. Proto-Slavs So yes, they look Irano-Slavic. paleo-Balkan people? If this is true we would all be speaking Albanian or Romanian today All the Illyrians/Vlachs (romanized) were wiped out by the Avar and other Barbarian invasions. Balkans was a depopulated region, hence for the invitation by the Roman Emperor for settlement. The original or pure Iranians who lived in the steppes were not dark, if thats what you are implying. They most likely looked similar to slavs north of Danube.
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Post by terroreign on Dec 5, 2010 20:57:03 GMT -5
^There were not any fairer than those people in the pictures, unless you've got some evidence to the contrary
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Post by terroreign on Dec 6, 2010 4:36:35 GMT -5
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Post by Babylon Enigma on Dec 24, 2010 18:09:36 GMT -5
^There were not any fairer than those people in the pictures, unless you've got some evidence to the contrary It is not my evidence. It is established knowledge. The steppe belt today is inhabited by slavs, turks and mongols. The current racial composition is light haired Europeans to Mongoloids and a transition in between. Skeletal remains from the indo-european era are Nordic influenced, even in modenr day western Mongolia. But I will not waste time talking about skull shapes. I'll post genetic resutls from the Scythians.
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Post by Babylon Enigma on Dec 24, 2010 18:50:47 GMT -5
Almost all skeletal remains from Scythians and proto-Scythians have tested for haplo-group R1a. Ancient DNA provides new insights into the history of south Siberian Kurgan people Abstract To help unravel some of the early Eurasian steppe migration movements, we determined the Y-chromosomal and mitochondrial haplotypes and haplogroups of 26 ancient human specimens from the Krasnoyarsk area dated from between the middle of the second millennium BC. to the fourth century AD. In order to go further in the search of the geographic origin and physical traits of these south Siberian specimens, we also typed phenotype-informative single nucleotide polymorphisms. Our autosomal, Y-chromosomal and mitochondrial DNA analyses reveal that whereas few specimens seem to be related matrilineally or patrilineally, nearly all subjects belong to haplogroup R1a1-M17 which is thought to mark the eastward migration of the early Indo-Europeans. Our results also confirm that at the Bronze and Iron Ages, south Siberia was a region of overwhelmingly predominant European settlement, suggesting an eastward migration of Kurgan people across the Russo-Kazakh steppe. Finally, our data indicate that at the Bronze and Iron Age timeframe, south Siberians were blue (or green)-eyed, fair-skinned and light-haired people and that they might have played a role in the early development of the Tarim Basin civilization. To the best of our knowledge, no equivalent molecular analysis has been undertaken so far. www.springerlink.com/content/4462755368m322k8/fulltext.pdf
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Post by terroreign on Dec 28, 2010 5:41:20 GMT -5
^Those DNA tests aren't precise indicators on how people look...not to mention the test is using just 26 samples...I mean c'mon...
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Post by terroreign on Dec 30, 2010 2:36:19 GMT -5
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Post by Babylon Enigma on Jan 2, 2011 18:08:33 GMT -5
^Those DNA tests aren't precise indicators on how people look...not to mention the test is using just 26 samples...I mean c'mon... From a 2,000 year period, up to the Turkic expansion. Maybe you should call a complain. Demand more samples to be tested, because some dark person with a big chip on his shoulder truly fantasizes of ancient Scythians were brown like him, tell them it's not fair to your fantasy. Oh sure, they must look how you want them to look.
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Post by ulf on Jan 2, 2011 21:56:05 GMT -5
Light haired people doesn't mean necessarily blond. As for light eyes, even 30-50% of South Slavs have them.
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Post by ulf on Jan 2, 2011 22:16:19 GMT -5
for example look this ancient Tocharian Attachments:
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Post by Babylon Enigma on Jan 3, 2011 22:01:07 GMT -5
That's true, but some things to consider.
Tocharians were centum speakers, not satem. The Uighurs have higher ratio of R1b than R1a(both pre-Turkic IE genes). R1b as you know is strongest among centum IE speakers. So the Tocharian might have been even more western looking than the Iranian speakers adjacent to them.
These ancient Iranians were almost all R1a. Unlike south Slavs who have Balkanic mixture, and since they migrated so far, they picked Mongoloid females, as mitochondrial haplogroups show, yet they were blue eyed and fair haired despite the mixture.
Because of the multi-kulti propaganda, professional will not admit that Indo-Europeans are a lot purer in patrilineal lineage than today. Primitive groups are more homogeneous generally. The land where IE speakers emerged was a new frontier(bottle neck scenario), a land covered by ice and tundra 5,000 years prior to their rise. You can't view their enviroment as similar to Balkan Slavs.
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Post by ulf on Jan 3, 2011 22:40:06 GMT -5
The map you posted represent almost the same area as modern European R1a population(Slavs). Makes sense since Slavs, except some Germanic countries, are lighter then Western world
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Post by Babylon Enigma on Jan 3, 2011 22:59:18 GMT -5
That map is from the study, the samples were taken just north of Mongolia. Back then, it was 2-5 C degreees warmer, so the steppe extended further north. Tocharians lived much further south in western China, in the Tarim basin.
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Post by terroreign on Jan 5, 2011 2:11:19 GMT -5
Fantasy? This idea everyone in the steppes were once blonde haired and blue eyed is the the biggest fantasy there is! Some maybe, but definitely not the Iranian peoples that's for sure. Let's be serious here!
Check out the Ossetians, one of the purest Iranic peoples...untouched by Arab conquest, Turk conquest and barely by Russian. These people very much resemble these in this thread. Case closed.
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Post by ulf on Jan 5, 2011 8:49:06 GMT -5
Fantasy? This idea everyone in the steppes were once blonde haired and blue eyed is the the biggest fantasy there is! Some maybe, but definitely not the Iranian peoples that's for sure. Let's be serious here! Light haired, not necessarily blond. Those that weren't light haired were Mongol related. Ossetians are closest to West European countries judging by genetics, they are not from the same stock as those people Babylon Enigma wrote about.
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Post by terroreign on Jan 6, 2011 18:59:49 GMT -5
^Doubt that, Dark hair is native to the area, Mongols have nothing to do with it...completely irrelevant to the Sarmatians.
Greeks knew the Sarmatians as the "Sauro-Matae" which roughly means "Lizard-eyes", because their eyes had more slant than the round-eyed Hellens. This characteristic is highly common amongst Serbs, much more than the other Slavs except the Russians and Ukrainians...who not only reside in former Sarmatian territories, but also had inter-mixing with Mongols and Huns, thus their high-cheekbones, and other characteristics, which the Serbs do not share, because Serbs did not have any real contact with Mongols, nor any traditionally asiatic peoples.
Ossetians are closest to Western Europeans you say? Who, like the Spaniards or French? ;D Obviously you haven't looked at Ossetians....they're nearly strikingly similar to Serbs, more specifically Herzegovinians and Montenegrins (the purest Serbs).
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Post by terroreign on Jan 6, 2011 19:39:02 GMT -5
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Post by ulf on Jan 6, 2011 20:23:38 GMT -5
^Doubt that, Dark hair is native to the area, Mongols have nothing to do with it...completely irrelevant to the Sarmatians. Greeks knew the Sarmatians as the "Sauro-Matae" which roughly means "Lizard-eyes", because their eyes had more slant than the round-eyed Hellens. This characteristic is highly common amongst Serbs, much more than the other Slavs except the Russians and Ukrainians...who not only reside in former Sarmatian territories, but also had inter-mixing with Mongols and Huns, thus their high-cheekbones, and other characteristics, which the Serbs do not share, because Serbs did not have any real contact with Mongols, nor any traditionally asiatic peoples. Ossetians are closest to Western Europeans you say? Who, like the Spaniards or French? ;D Obviously you haven't looked at Ossetians....they're nearly strikingly similar to Serbs, more specifically Herzegovinians and Montenegrins (the purest Serbs). Like Irish, Welsh, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italian. All of those people are predominantly dark haired. Basically non-Germano-Slavo-Batics. Those founders of early Indo-Iranian culture(known as Andronovo culture) were in 90% of cases light haired and with light eyes. Out of 10 'aristocrats' excavated, 9 had R1a(Babylon Enigma talked about this haplogroup) and 1 had C which is found in Middle East and South Asia. Further study determined that at least 60% of total population had light hair and eyes. I assure you I made no mistake here. And unfortunately, Montenegrin and Herzegovinian genetics differs more then for example Serbian and Herzegovinian(talking about Serbs). Montenegrins themselves are closest to Macedonians in terms of genetics.
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