Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 9, 2009 7:09:26 GMT -5
I gave FULL evidence about the truth, now its your turn to prove your abnormal assumption. wanna give it a try?
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Post by rusebg on Sept 9, 2009 7:17:02 GMT -5
You didn't read my answer or what? Tell me where in the whole text it says about macedonians fighting for Serbia in Korfu or that Vardarska division was comprised of macedonians. If this is your idea of full evidence, I don't even want to imagine what a wild guess would be.
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 9, 2009 9:04:49 GMT -5
Do you think "Bitoljska", for instance, was a random name for a division from Banja Luka, Bosna? In that extremely unlikely case, then i bet "Drinska" surely was comprised by Skopljanci! LMAO Ruse...
PS Anyway, to get a little serious, (hard when talking to you, but i will try), in the above article, it explicitly notes that Makedonia along with Kosovo is considered "Stara Srbija", in case you didn't notice.
I am giving BIG chances that people in Bitoljska were from around Bitola, and people in Vardarska from around Skoplje, but i cannot give much info on this at the moment.
Novi is on hiatus for a month, so we will probably answer next month, or so. You can make a new post in the SF, to discuss this if you like.
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Post by rusebg on Sept 9, 2009 10:10:53 GMT -5
Could be, in the event you give a source, something you have failed to do with Vardarska.
Yeah? A serbian article from wiki? Please Pyrro, refresh my memory a little bit...weren't you the very person who always expresses serious doubts and ridicules wiki as a source?
Just a few sentences above you were completely convinced they were Macedonians. Now you can't give much info on this at the moment...ok, when you are ready for a serious discussion, come back. I don't think anyone needs to read what you wish things were like, instead of what they actually were.
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donnie
Senior Moderator
Nike Leka i Kelmendit
Posts: 3,389
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Post by donnie on Sept 9, 2009 12:07:32 GMT -5
Quite right! Albanian names figure in the Serbian military cemetary of Thessaloniki. Conscription in times of war isn't the same as volunteering under patriotic motives.
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Post by Arxileas on Sept 9, 2009 18:14:01 GMT -5
"See how you come in and start a division btw us Greeks and Serbs with completely irrelevant stuff pulled out of thin air when I did no such thing..."
no, pls show me. As Nikola had observed i am the ONLY greek not creating divisions. (inter Serb-Greek division? LOL, you cannot even distinguish a Slavo-Makedonian from a Serb for christ's sake!!)
"Thanks for the unwarranted insults to me"
i was careful to NOT insult you. The question about Arksilleas vs Arhilleas stands. Dude I was referring to facts of the Macedonian struggle from the start when they were BY fact Bulgarians at the time and you came out of the blue simply painting me as anti Serb with full on personal attacks with no attempt to debate simply because I mentioned the word “Bulgarian KOMITZIS” I am not going to bend the facts or lie so as to suit your agendas or your Serbifilia. I brought in facts for Nikola you saw the word “Bulgarian” and you went on a full on personal attack on me and not what was being debated as you normally do with everyone else who doesn’t agree with you these days. Your problem to resolve within your self, I can’t help you no more. .
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 10, 2009 0:10:24 GMT -5
In this region, especially the south, the names "Bugarin" and "Srbin" and "Makedonac/Makedonec" was just declarations of political affiliations and nothing more. And Papandreou, once was a socialist, and his father hired people who had fought for EAM in the mountains, but today he is a full blown american puppet, whats the deal? It never ever crossed my mind to portray you as anti-serb, (although i am sure you dont know enuf about any of those nations). I'll give you an example, in Iraq, serve as well, Ukrainians/Georgians/magiars/Poles.... Can you imagine a new future anti-Ukranian campaign in Iraq, based on the offensive of the bad Ukranians against the good Iraqi people? What you are doing with always equating the bad Bulgarians=Skopians is exactly that, and i owe to bring additional facts from history which represent another side of the bad bad Skopians. IS THAT NOT FAIR? Didn't we, in Greece, stopped the post war "right vs left" madness ? (Deksia vs Aristera)? Why should we WRITE AND EMPHASIZE ONLY the black moments between us and *SOME SMALL PORTION* of the yugo-maks, and not the GOOD ones who are more fresh? (1916 is newer than 1903)? I repeat, all our problems in the Makedonian Struggle, and since 1870, were designed in Bulgaria, planned in Bulgaria, and executed by Bulgaria: and all of a sudden, your only "solution", the official greek solution here, is to make this people feel bulgarian. Achilleas, it is moment like this that i think that even New Democracy would be better than a small inexperienced party to run our foreign policy. Only because, the average Greek, has no idea of what is happening outside the borders, while our governments seem to do much better compared to that, i am thinking of voting for ND. Simply the average greek is naive like a 3 years old.
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Post by Arxileas on Sept 10, 2009 1:27:22 GMT -5
Trying to squeeze your way out of it now Unbelievable !!! Have fun .
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 10, 2009 2:08:17 GMT -5
Good luck to your Greater Bulgaria too! In the meantime allow me to SERVE THE GREEK INTERESTS. Ciao.
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Post by Arxileas on Sept 10, 2009 2:14:34 GMT -5
We Greek Macedonians will speak for our self regarding the Macedonian issue thanks. You're biased and by the way saw your attack on me before you edited it...Don't take things too personal its a forum
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
20%
Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Sept 10, 2009 2:28:02 GMT -5
We Greek Macedonians will speak for our self regarding the Macedonian issue thanks. You're biased and by the way saw your attack on me before you edited it...Don't take things too personal its a forum you see? i just cant help it ;D when you are acting as a bulgarian employer. Anyways, are you Pontian/MinorAsian or local.... just curious. And biased? ME? WTF am i biased dude, when in 99.99% of your posts you try to humiliate this small nation? I AM BIASED? JESUS, that is a complete rape of LOGIC! HOW AM I BIASED? I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW? ;D
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ivo
Amicus
Posts: 2,712
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Post by ivo on Sept 10, 2009 13:35:32 GMT -5
I have to say, I fully agree with Nikola on this one thing..
The present day Macedonian's have just as much of a claim on the Ancient Macedonians as do present day Greeks on the Ancient Greeks.
The notion that present day Greeks are descendents of the Ancient Greeks (Hellens) only came about during the late 1800’s and early 1900’s during the final efforts to expel the Turks from Europe. Scholars and travelers of that time note that the populations in northern Greece largely consisted of Albanian and Slav villages, while those to the South were more of a mix of Albanian, Vlach, Slav, Turk, Roma, Jewish, and Armenian ethnic groups. It is also noted, that the Ancient Greek ruins didn’t inspire any sort of nationalistic feelings until the inhabitants of Greece realized that such ancient artifacts were seen by the Western world as very intriguing.
It was only in the early 1900’s that the government of Greece started to put a significant effort into the idea that the population, regardless of ethnicity, was actually Ancient Greek.
Even today, Greece doesn’t recognize national minorities. The Greek government claims that 98% of the population in Greece is purely Greek, descending from the Ancient Greeks. Today, any person residing in Greece who is of the Eastern Orthodox faith and has some understanding of the Greek language, is considered as an ethnic Greek.
It doesn’t take a great historian or a rocket scientist to see that the notion of present day Greeks being the same as the Ancient Greeks is nothing but political propaganda.
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Post by okanenas on Oct 12, 2009 9:53:17 GMT -5
Greetings to all ppl here! I just recently find out about this site and i m really happy for this! My special greetings to piros , i really like your opinions and your friendly attitude (at least judging from what i ve already read). I am interesting in balkan history and i have a special interest in macedonia history and the name issue between GREECE and ROM. I really think that we have many things in common and i believe that the ultimate solution to the problem would be a piecefull unification of ROM and Greece !
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Oct 12, 2009 11:53:41 GMT -5
Greetings to all ppl here! I just recently find out about this site and i m really happy for this! My special greetings to piros , i really like your opinions and your friendly attitude (at least judging from what i ve already read). I am interesting in balkan history and i have a special interest in macedonia history and the name issue between GREECE and ROM. I really think that we have many things in common and i believe that the ultimate solution to the problem would be a piecefull unification of ROM and Greece ! ;D
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Oct 12, 2009 11:54:56 GMT -5
I have to say, I fully agree with Nikola on this one thing.. The present day Macedonian's have just as much of a claim on the Ancient Macedonians as do present day Greeks on the Ancient Greeks. The notion that present day Greeks are descendents of the Ancient Greeks (Hellens) only came about during the late 1800’s and early 1900’s during the final efforts to expel the Turks from Europe. Scholars and travelers of that time note that the populations in northern Greece largely consisted of Albanian and Slav villages, while those to the South were more of a mix of Albanian, Vlach, Slav, Turk, Roma, Jewish, and Armenian ethnic groups. It is also noted, that the Ancient Greek ruins didn’t inspire any sort of nationalistic feelings until the inhabitants of Greece realized that such ancient artifacts were seen by the Western world as very intriguing. It was only in the early 1900’s that the government of Greece started to put a significant effort into the idea that the population, regardless of ethnicity, was actually Ancient Greek. Even today, Greece doesn’t recognize national minorities. The Greek government claims that 98% of the population in Greece is purely Greek, descending from the Ancient Greeks. Today, any person residing in Greece who is of the Eastern Orthodox faith and has some understanding of the Greek language, is considered as an ethnic Greek. It doesn’t take a great historian or a rocket scientist to see that the notion of present day Greeks being the same as the Ancient Greeks is nothing but political propaganda. ;D ;D
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