Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Mar 9, 2010 11:01:58 GMT -5
No. If you support dictatorships in Greece, you must be here to taste it...
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bato2
Moderator
Art Changed The World
Posts: 1,352
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Post by bato2 on Mar 9, 2010 11:55:24 GMT -5
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Post by Kastorianos on Mar 9, 2010 12:12:33 GMT -5
No. If you support dictatorships in Greece, you must be here to taste it... I must nothing. The same way a Greek of the diaspora can support Greek democracy I can support a Greek dictatorship. This is democratic freedom after all isnt it? Go figure.
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Post by ngadhnjyesi on Mar 9, 2010 13:37:07 GMT -5
Seams he's got more fans in Greece than in Albania, how ironic. Greek fans have translated all his book and publish them in internet. For all the crap that Greeks give Hoxha he rarely expressed any animosity towards Greeks and went as far as to pen a book titled "Two friendly peoples" re: the Albanian-Greco friendship. He gave refuge to the Greek communists and was widely suported by the Greek minority.
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Post by chalkedon on Mar 9, 2010 14:20:22 GMT -5
I tend to agree with ngadhnjyesi ( Christ i had to double check on that spelling ;D ) and teuta. I dont know too much about the guy, but we need a similar person here in Greece. Aristotle said that ordinary ppl are too " stupid " to let them govern the country. That is why governance should be left to the few that know. I think he was on to something...
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Mar 9, 2010 14:39:26 GMT -5
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PARIS DIO_MYSUS!
Amicus
It's Nice to be Important but It's more Important to be Nice!
Posts: 3,681
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Post by PARIS DIO_MYSUS! on Mar 9, 2010 15:30:43 GMT -5
as always about famous albanians and so after claiming scanderbeg in near future greeks are going to say that enver hoxha was also greek originally
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Kanaris
Amicus
This just in>>>> Nobody gives a crap!
Posts: 9,589
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Post by Kanaris on Mar 9, 2010 15:47:53 GMT -5
Enver seems to have the characteristics of Nhagdo...
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Post by ngadhnjyesi on Mar 9, 2010 16:33:11 GMT -5
Enver seems to have the characteristics of Nhagdo... Well we both hail from the same region.
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bato2
Moderator
Art Changed The World
Posts: 1,352
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Post by bato2 on Mar 9, 2010 17:11:02 GMT -5
Enver seems to have the characteristics of Nhagdo... Who is Nhagdo?...
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Post by todhrimencuri on Mar 9, 2010 18:58:18 GMT -5
Enver Hoxha would have been a great man for the country had he been a National Socialist rather than a Socialist. If he had led the country by the dictatorial measures of an Ataturk... then I would love him. However he was a freakin commie trash who should have burned in a concentration camp...
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Post by leshte on Mar 9, 2010 19:53:20 GMT -5
All the dictators are trash. Delusion is what brings people to believe there's good dictators. There is no such thing as a good dictator. You end up on the wrong side of their paranoid thoughts and they can't find your bones for decades. You guys obviously have no clue about all those that suffered and romanticize dictatorships based on naive ideas. Ataturk like the rest of them was an ahole. No civilian human being deserves to die because he/she was born of a specific ethnicity, race, religion, etc etc. Nobody. O and what he did to Armenians was a genocide; even Hitler saw that as an example about what he should do.
Melty the Turkish state facilitated the ethnic cleansing of Albanians through deals with the Serbian and Greek state. You idolize the policies put forward by Ataturk, you support the ethnic cleansing of Albanians.
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Post by albquietman on Mar 10, 2010 23:57:40 GMT -5
Enver Hoxha would have been a great man for the country had he been a National Socialist rather than a Socialist. If he had led the country by the dictatorial measures of an Ataturk... then I would love him. However he was a freakin commie trash who should have burned in a concentration camp... Well, that's what he was actually, a national socialist, but when you gust talk about him and the history of Albania, in the back of your mind is your families history and the properties and the money you would've have if he wasn't in power, no matter that 90% of albanians wouldn't have had bread on the table to feed their families...well, who cares, that's capitalism, or democracy according to you... Albanian people after WW2 needed someone to show them the rules, the laws, the way to make them to behave as the rest of the world, because they were not even close to it. Your ancestors, the beys, the rich merchants cound't do that, because they had the chance when their beloved king Zog ruled Albania, but they fu'cked up, because all they were looking for, was to make more money...so guys stop that democracy bullshi't, it was 1944, and the democracy wasn't even proved to work properly, let alone in Albania that democracy wasn't even known as a word. Hoxha, did things that in Albania and in Balkan you can do them only by forcing people to do them, for the simple reason that people do not even understand what's good and bad for them and someone has to tell them and do it for them, but for some reason this is called communism, socialism...didn't Obama got named the same way when he was trying to give health care to all americans? I guess Voltaire had a point when he said (that's why it's my sig now): The only way to comprehend what mathematicians mean by Infinity is to contemplate the extent of human stupidity.And the human stupidity is more than infinite in Balkans...and we keep proving it...yes Greece, you're in Balkan too, no wonder you're so f'ucked up, no matter what Kanaris says...
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Post by leshte on Mar 11, 2010 0:02:15 GMT -5
Albquietman have you noticed that dictatorships seem good from a distance?
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Post by albquietman on Mar 11, 2010 0:29:57 GMT -5
Well, I left Albania when I was in my early 30's...1992...and I've lived in Hoxha's time and I know what does it mean to live in a dictatorship...it was bad, but not as bad as you guys try to picture it. I might be wrong, probably because according to some people today I belonged to the upper class in Albania just because my parents were intellectuals and had good jobs, but we're talking about a broader picture here, we're talking about what was good for Albania and albanians at that time, not what was good for some...and we all know that industry, electrification, education, real roads, railroads etc, were created and built at his time...I wonder what the others would have done, probably more or less, but that's our history, and no matter if we like it or not, it's our history, and we've got to give him credit for what was done...
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Post by todhrimencuri on Mar 11, 2010 0:37:29 GMT -5
The rhetoric doesnt support the policies. Why then were Chams demonized while Greeks and Vlachs promoted? Why did Vlachs get priority over our own kin, Chams? The fact is, outside of rhetoric, he was not interested in nationalism. Even his speeches for Kosova were farces to promote himself.
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Post by albquietman on Mar 11, 2010 1:09:22 GMT -5
The Vlachs weren't promoted, they called themselves albanians already, like they called themselves greeks in Greece or whatever country they lived in.
Greeks were already there, and Hoxha didn't want to do the same thing as greeks did to the chams, because of the ideology he supported, and the fact that greeks and albanians in that area never had problems with each-other, no matter what Karta and company says.
Talking about the chams, back then, was already accepted that chams were albanians, and that was what they taught us in schools back then, but I don't think that Hoxha had the power to reverse what greeks did to the chams, for the simple reason that Greece was supported by the big powers at that time, and Albania was a country that was barely known in the world, and the biggest country that Hoxha wanted to attach himself to, the Soviet Union, didn't even know that Albania existed. Stalin until Tito went against him, was on the same page with Tito, and that meant that Albania should've been part of Yugoslavia...Stalin even tried to prove that we were slavs.
So, I don't think anyone could've done anything more or better than Hoxha did do, for the simple reason that we were just a little country, unknown, neglected and raped by our neighbors that weren't satisfied enough by taking our lands, but they're still looking for more...and the chams history proves that, because wasn't about them, but about the lands...
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Post by todhrimencuri on Mar 11, 2010 1:14:00 GMT -5
Living together whatever. Ask ngadho as well how he feels about it, and he is from the heart of it. Fact is that he had a chance for revenge and didnt take it. A nationalist would have, a man who loved his people would have... Im not talking about defending the chams, but I have helping them and supporting them instead of demonizing them would have been nice. Allowing for proper and justified revenge would have been good aswell... he didnt allow it, and that throws away all of his rhetoric. The Ballists would, Zog would have. That is all telling enough
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Post by albquietman on Mar 11, 2010 2:00:56 GMT -5
Melty, I don't know where all this hatred about the greeks come from, but if it was that whatever you say would had been applied, the people from Narta wouldn't have a good time either, because in Vlora they were considered greeks, or greekophones...anyway, I don't think that Ngadho and you are on the same page, but my point is, that there is no reason to hate greeks or anyone for that matter...and Zogu and Balli would have done the same thing as Hoxha did, unless they had a nuclear bomb to threaten Greece...but they didn't as far as I know...
A kid like you, that pretends that reads a lot about history shouldn't talk this way...well, it's your choice to hate someone and that's called human nature, but hating millions of people that belong to some nationality that they were never asked if they wanted to belong to, doesn't sound normal to me...
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Post by todhrimencuri on Mar 11, 2010 2:07:35 GMT -5
I would welcome it... I have no feelings for Narte, its people or their irritating island monastery. I despise every ounce of land and name from that area, from Papa to Konomi.
No they wouldnt have, saying that is a horrible lie. Zog showed he was more than willing to pounce on minority groups when the chance was given, and the Ballistat would have loved to carry out revenge campaigns in the south against the people they deemed grekokaura in response to chams.
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