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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Mar 17, 2010 10:49:32 GMT -5
cont. from another threadInteresting that many are showing roman influence in the lower face (many have reduced faces and small roman chins). Look at lower picts of roman facial profiles for what I am talking about. Statue of Roman Emperor Caligula. Circa 39-40 A.D. Marble. Musée du Louvre, Paris. The Boxer is a hellenistic sculpture found during excavation of the Quirinal hill in Rome. The non-idealised features show this is intended to be a portrait, placing it firmly in the hellenistic age. Sculpture is no longer showing idealised forms, but specific people with specific features. Nikkormat EL 50mm in Spring 2007, at the National Museum in the Palazzo Massimo. source www.flickr.com/groups/ancientgreece/pool/tags/First is a Roman face and second is a Greek face (Greek face being elongated, wider with usually square like chin)
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Mar 17, 2010 10:50:14 GMT -5
Melty All of those you mentioned have the same features as I described on the statues and these are generally the patterns followed by Romans while those same features are most noticeable from what I saw from exactly today's Italians (meaning more so then any other people but not to say all have it). Again the features is reduced face (or 'baby face' - nose is roughly halfway between chin and eyebrows) and smaller roundish chin (that on the profile goes behind the lips). In my region (including Croatia) this influence is most common in the coastal regions (populated by Romans thus their influence) while less common in inland regions (apart from parts of central Serbia then then again this was ancient Roman Moesia). Greek face is elongated with prominent square like chin that on the profile goes in front of the lips. Augustus Augustus JULIUS CAESAR (features are half way between Roman and Greek thus Greco- Roman. Even his chin is more prominent and face more elongated while balding is trait that is among most common in Balkans) Octavian (Greco-Roman) Constantine the Great (exhibits also what I call 'Greek eyes' or big eyes that curl downwards away from the nose) downwards ) Mainly Greek features (Note the Greek chin) Theodosius the Great (Greco-Roman) Note: Most ruling Romans exhibited Greco-Roman features (especially more successful ones). The maximum extent of Roman Empire under Trajan in AD 117 Greek features Aristotle Thucydides Demosthenes The Greek world in the mid 6th century BCE.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Mar 17, 2010 10:51:12 GMT -5
Melty: greco-Roman is not a real term, its an invented 19th century terminology. The one thing you are taught when you enter into a Greek or Latin program is that the two are in reality rather distinct (and, as I have learned as I moved between Latin and Greek departments, are pretty diverse in their own right in terms of social-cultural ideas that were not so noticable to 19th century scholars who came up). For the most part Greco-Roman refers to 1) a blended architectural style 2) the Med world in the later Roman polity. It does not signify a reality however. It is equally bizarre to use the term when referring to false anthropological concepts which would not even be considered legitimate.
Secondly, you are tranversing across different time periods. Theodosius was Hispanic (and that depiction of him is a 19th century recreation drawing, it is almost impossible to determine the real look of many later Roman emperors, Justinian being the last real facially recognizable before the tradition of realistic depictions fades alltogether in the Byzantine realm and western realm), Constantine Balkan-Anatolic (mixed Greek and "Balkan", however looked weird to say the least). Secondly, the Constantine bust is misleading in comparison to the others since it uses a different type of style more notable of the later Roman Empire. The big eyes are not Greek, they are simply a stylistic development that becomes more pronounced in the middle ages (the further away from "classical antiquity" the bigger the eyes). It is especially noticable in the Christian era. If you look at western and eastern european chronicles of the middle ages, they all seem to have huge eyes. Look at Byzantine coinage for instance Thats why Constantine has such big eyes. If you look at funerary busts you would think it was a world of aliens. This was an adaptation from the Near East.
No... there is evidence that hairloss is more common in the Balkans. In the US, about 50% of men will grow bald by 45-50. This is a general tendency in the US and European world in general. The Balkans is really no exception. I would say at times Ive noticed less hairloss among, say, Serbs, than many others. Karadzic being an amazing example, Tadic as well, Vuk Zeremic as well. When I look at Serb parliamentarians, it seems like barely a 1/3 are bald. Sali berisha is another example in Albania, or Ilir Meta.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Mar 17, 2010 11:13:10 GMT -5
Modern Italian Leaders en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italy#The_Italian_Republic_.281946.E2.80.93.29Alcide De Gasperi (Mainly Greek in facial features and minor Roman) Ritratto di Aldo (Strong Roman influence in lower face) Giovanni Spadolini (Typical Roman chin) Bettino Craxi (Greco-Roman) Celto-Greco-Roman facial features
Modern Greek Leaders Eleftherios Venizelos (Mainly Greek minor Roman) Ioannis Metaxas (Mainly Greek minor Roman) George Papandreou Senior (mainly Greek) George Papandreou Junior (Greco- Roman) Andreas Papandreou (Mainly Greek minor Roman)
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Mar 17, 2010 11:32:58 GMT -5
F it, lets expand
Modern Albanian leaders Enver Hoxha (Roman chin) Sali Berisha (mainly Greek) Alfred Moisiu (Greco-Roman) Rexhep Meidani (mainly Greek)
modern Montenegrin Leaders Petar II Petrovic Njegos (Greek) Nikola Petrovic Njegos (Greco-Roman, semi Roman chin) Momir Bulatovic (Greek) Milo Djukanovic (Greco-Roman) Filip Vujanovic (Greco-Roman)
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Mar 17, 2010 11:39:49 GMT -5
You made a mistake in Venizelos picture.This is Venizelos: And btw Berisha doesn't have anything Greek on him.
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Post by todhrimencuri on Mar 17, 2010 11:43:15 GMT -5
Both are Venizelos... and to say Sali Berisha has a Greek look is sort of a joke... lol
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Mar 17, 2010 11:45:31 GMT -5
As far as Greek eyes go they are more noticeable among females then males so i will show some Greek females with such eyes Kaiti Garbi Angela Dimitriou Natassa Theodoridou
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Post by todhrimencuri on Mar 17, 2010 11:46:16 GMT -5
This is a Roman face, quintessential Roman face. Look at the heavy dinaric nose, note the ears, the strong dinaric-Med (uniquely Italian) features. What you put up there are regional similarities. But ofcourse Admin will have some half-brained response to this in his ever dying desire to be diconnected from anything Slavic and connected to the classical antique world. Everything is being defined by some small features he noticed in some busts 2k years ago. And isnt the new papandreu half Polish? Or was the old papandreu half polish? The new one is apparently half-American (his mother's last name was Chant, doesnt sound very Greek). How does that work for the "Greco-Roman" formula? lol
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Mar 17, 2010 11:50:53 GMT -5
Enver and Alfred are both also exhibiting something non-Balkan (almost indian like) while Berisha is Greek fused (greek chin) with something peripheral balkanic. Papandreu Junior also exhibits other influence.
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Mar 17, 2010 12:04:17 GMT -5
That is still Greco-Roman and weird fusing at that (upper head is Greek and lower is Roman and very disproportionate). Slavic faces are fusion between oriental and balkanic (danubians mixed with de-pegmented mongoloid lapps) both eyes when fused go in a letter V formation (mongoloid) Female Gosia Andrzejewicz (wide, roundish, flat faced on profile) (mainly Lappoid) Piotr Beczała (Slavic with notesable Danubian and also Baltic influence)
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Mar 17, 2010 13:04:28 GMT -5
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Mar 17, 2010 13:19:53 GMT -5
Nice representative of more typical Greek face.
Rougher Greek face has a tip of the nose at roughly half point between start of a forehead and end point of the chin.
Gentler Roman face has a tip of the nose at roughly half point between midpoint between eyebrows and end point of the chin.
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Mar 17, 2010 13:32:12 GMT -5
Greco-roman? what a joke term....dont forget in balcan lived more oldest people such Illyrians, Dacians, Thracians, Macedonians ect. real term would be Illyriano-thracian
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Mar 17, 2010 13:50:56 GMT -5
Other Balkan states
modern Serbian leaders Slobodan Milošević (Greek major and Roman minor) Zoran Đinđić (Greco-Roman) Vojislav Kostunica (mainly Greek)
modern 'Macedonian' leaders Krste Petkov - Misirkov (mainly Greek) Branko Crvenkovski (Greek major and Roman minor) Nikola Gruevski (Greco-Roman..partly Turanid eyes)
Modern Bulgarian leaders Georgi Dimitrov (Greek with greco-roman chin) Todor Zhivkov (Greco-Roman) Lyudmila Zhivkova (mainly Greek) Boyko Borisov ( Greek)
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Mar 17, 2010 14:07:30 GMT -5
Modern Turkish Leaders Mustafa Kemal Atatürk (Greco-Roman with minor Celtic and Turanid) Abdullah Gül (curious mix of Greek, Persian and Turanid) Ahmet Necdet Sezer (Greco-Roman-Arab) Recep Tayyip Erdoğan (Greco-Roman and minor Arab) Kemal Derviş (Mainly Greek, minor Roman)
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Post by Emperor AAdmin on Mar 17, 2010 14:17:49 GMT -5
Illyrians, Dacians, Thracians, Macedonians ect.
Those who were under strong Greek or Roman influence advanced (and more then likely heavily mixed with Greeks) and built cities and multiplied while primitive people like Dacians, Pannonians etc for most part disappeared (Albanian, being that it is probably a Dacian remain, might have been forced on locals when they were at their weaker points). Also it is safe to assume that Greeks and Romans would have been far more numerous as they had far more cities versus others (who would have been like comparing Congo tribes with British or French).
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Mar 17, 2010 17:58:30 GMT -5
lol you are funny aadmin, you dont have idea about anthropology...all we know you are greek greekofile like pyrros is serbofile, so is not hard to understand your such theories.
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Post by PrijesDardanian on Mar 17, 2010 18:05:33 GMT -5
Illyrians, Dacians, Thracians, Macedonians ect.Those who were under strong Greek or Roman influence advanced (and more then likely heavily mixed with Greeks) and built cities and multiplied while primitive people like Dacians, Pannonians etc for most part disappeared (Albanian, being that it is probably a Dacian remain, might have been forced on locals when they were at their weaker points). Also it is safe to assume that Greeks and Romans would have been far more numerous as they had far more cities versus others (who would have been like comparing Congo tribes with British or French). Greeks influenced very heavily by Romans+Persians+ect, also Romans influenced by Etruscans+Celts+ect. Illyrians and Daco-Thracians were more numerous than Romans and Greeks.
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Patrinos
Amicus
Peloponnesos uber alles
Posts: 4,763
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Post by Patrinos on Mar 18, 2010 4:59:36 GMT -5
Illyrians, Dacians, Thracians, Macedonians ect.Those who were under strong Greek or Roman influence advanced (and more then likely heavily mixed with Greeks) and built cities and multiplied while primitive people like Dacians, Pannonians etc for most part disappeared (Albanian, being that it is probably a Dacian remain, might have been forced on locals when they were at their weaker points). Also it is safe to assume that Greeks and Romans would have been far more numerous as they had far more cities versus others (who would have been like comparing Congo tribes with British or French). Greeks influenced very heavily by Romans+Persians+ect, also Romans influenced by Etruscans+Celts+ect. Illyrians and Daco-Thracians were more numerous than Romans and Greeks. In what were Greeks influenced by Romans and Persians...? Only minor influences by Romans who were just a copy of the Greek civilization. The population of an area explodes when it has urban centers, poleis, and Greece was full of poleis, along with its colonies in Minor Asia and Magna Grecia more than 1000 attested. In contrast Illyro-thracians ,who could be totally alien groups, were nomads or farmers living in vast majority in the hills... Illyrothracians were either hellenized heavily or romanized, hence you have Romanians speaking latin and Albanians semi-latin.
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