Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Mar 30, 2010 3:33:00 GMT -5
^ Nikola, your a respectable person here and if you don't agree with me its cool, l won't see you indifferently Look, historically speaking, Albanians, Turks and Bulgars were at your throats. You may think thats the past and we should move on, if they are genuine then that could be, but the Albanians arn't, the Bulgars arn't and the Turks have their own agenda, so l think, honestly speaking as a friend, you would be better off being close with the Serbs, Greeks and Russians. Miloshevich, actually foresaw something bubbling up with Fyrom, hence why he wanted to prevent something much bigger occuring in the future.....and....you know what Nikola, the Greek people declined his offer because the Greeks have no territorial ambition towards fyrom at all, whereas some have ambitions towards Greece's territory (i'm not being a smarta$$ here, but telling you in good faith). You know what man, if fyrom could change its name, l rest assurred the Greek people will favor fyrom with so much passion as they do with the serbs....its a great feeling to have someone who is so close culturally to you that actually favors you as well. I hope you don't take it the wrong way. nicely said Man!! however i have my doubts that this proposition ever took place for real.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Mar 30, 2010 3:34:00 GMT -5
^ it could be true Pyrro that it was all a rumor, who knows?....only the US knows
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Mar 30, 2010 3:43:31 GMT -5
The only piece of texts that this infamous proposition is mentioned is by complete serb haters with no credibility. (even "official" western documents do not dare to say such lies).
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Mar 30, 2010 4:23:08 GMT -5
You know what man, if fyrom could change its name, l rest assurred the Greek people will favor fyrom with so much passion as they do with the serbs....its a great feeling to have someone who is so close culturally to you that actually favors you as well. Novi, altering the name won't really change anything. Even if the government were to officially call the country "Vardar" (as you suggest), the same issues will still stand against every other country. For example: The GreeksThe people in this country Vardar, will not stop calling themselves Macedonians. They will become Macedonians from Vardar. I can guarantee you this. Same way we were Macedonians from Yugoslavia. And what good will that do for the Greeks? We would still be here, back to square one. The AlbaniansThey will still want to partition the country. It doesn't matter to them whether the country is called Macedonia or Vardar, their attitude will not change. The BulgariansThey will still want for me to accept some fantasy Bulgarian ancestry. Nobody from Vardar will accept this, so back to square one again. The SerbsWell, what do the Serbs want exactly? I know you personally will get your wish, but will you still be happy when I come here and call myself a Macedonian from Vardar? I think not.
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Mar 30, 2010 4:27:04 GMT -5
Serbian macedonia would be fine for me!!!!
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Mar 30, 2010 4:37:57 GMT -5
Serbian macedonia would be fine for me!!!! But then the people will want independence to form their own country to reflect their self identity. In other words, back to where we are now.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Mar 30, 2010 4:52:33 GMT -5
so you were "oppressed" during yugoslavia? cause the best things happened to slav-macedonia seem to stem from this period.
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Nikola
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Post by Nikola on Mar 30, 2010 5:00:37 GMT -5
To an extent, yes, just like every other Yugoslav country. Though that may have been a communism issue rather than the union. Still, nobody looks back to Yugoslavia as something to strive for again. It's good riddance for most people.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Mar 30, 2010 5:05:04 GMT -5
Still, nobody looks back to Yugoslavia as something to strive for again. It's good riddance for most people. i think its the other way around, the people are a riddance for most ex-YU countries, since most of them after the break-up of "bad" yugoslavia now live abroad. Then, yuMakedonia had a commerce, had some paths to sell products, had some agricultural and mechanical/industrial mentality... NOW??? Now the west has grabbed you, they tied you and feed you with blind nationalism, like they did in every country in the region.... i bought some safety belts for my old car (a mazda 323) and they were made in ex-yu-Makedonia... The salesman told me they are italian or smth.... He hit one/10,000,000 greeks that actually likes your country, but even then selling your products is tough. There is no brand-name "Makedonia". Yugoslavia was a respected country, with respected products, and with the most advanced economy/living status in the whole south-eastern European region. No balkan country is ever gonna do anything better than that. Its our fate.... Only Yugoslavia tried to break the spell..... and look what happened.
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Mar 30, 2010 8:13:46 GMT -5
Yugoslavia was a respected country, with respected products, and with the most advanced economy/living status in the whole south-eastern European region. No balkan country is ever gonna do anything better than that. Its our fate.... It wasnt a tuff call to be one of the most advanced state in in the whole south-eastern European region in the post war period. Bulgaria and Romania were held in the iron fist of the Ruskies, the people couldnt travell and work abroad and to make money and to invest them back in the states (unlike Yugoslavia). In a way, Bulgaria and Romania were the least fortunate states on the Bolkans, together with Albania, who was isolated as BG and RO tnx to its dictator. The luckiest state was of course Greece, who has always been the western Europe darling and tnx to EU and its great history and ruins it is the richest country on the Bolkans. The second luckiest is Yugoslavia, that was socialist only in teory, enjoing all the benefites of a non socialist state. But it had its own regions and not real idea of nationality: they had the westernized, rich, beautiful and totally different than the other states: Croatia and Slovenia, they had their so-so parts: Serbia, Montenegro, Voivodina and their poor parts: Macedonia, Kosovo.
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Post by Novi Pazar on Mar 30, 2010 8:41:43 GMT -5
^ o.k, it wasn't a bad response, but l will tell you this, why do you think Slovenia mainly and Croatia to a degree were benefited by the communists?
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Mar 30, 2010 8:47:53 GMT -5
I dont think Croatia and Slovenia benefited by the communists. I m sure that if they have been left outside of Yugoslavia they would have been something like Austia and Finland. Hell, Slovenia even now is maybe richer than the darling Greece. I think Slovenians/Croatians have always had different mindset than the other states in ex-Yugo. Croatia is very beautiful country by the way, unfortunately I havent been in Slovenia yet.
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Kralj Vatra
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Mar 30, 2010 9:00:38 GMT -5
I dont think Croatia and Slovenia benefited by the communists. I m sure that if they have been left outside of Yugoslavia they would have been something like Austia and Finland. Hell, Slovenia even now is maybe richer than the darling Greece. I think Slovenians/Croatians have always had different mindset than the other states in ex-Yugo. Croatia is very beautiful country by the way, unfortunately I havent been in Slovenia yet. You are talking out of your ass again Ioan... You think this, you think that, and in the end you are clueless like an infant. Facts: INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION IN YU BEGAN IN SUMADIJA - KRAGUJEVAC in 1800+ (19th Century). The only thing that Slovenes/Croats did better than the Serbs is regarding cleanness and garbage collection. Industrially/technically/scientifically they were AGES behind (like your own kind, remember where your first books were printed... thats right Jovane... KRAGUJEVAC) This wiki page en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Croatia , (to my surprise) admits: Note to the reader: Notice how the article uses the wording "After WWII" instead of "RIGHT AFTER YUGOSLAVIA's BIRTH"Slovenia and Croatia (and Bosnia) were just peasant countries before socialist Yugoslavia II. When Leskovac in southern Serbia had industry, i guess Slovenes/Croats were still doing agricultural work. Also it is notable that even today, VAST areas in Croatia that could be cultured are left unused, smth you wont see in Serbia. A look at the computers made in ex-YU speaks tones about the scientific level of the various nations there: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_computer_systems_from_the_Socialist_Federal_Republic_of_YugoslaviaIMO, Serbia was sacrificed for the good of the rest. + they had to feed Kosovo.... Check your facts Jovane... Compare *ANY* region of ex-SLO, ex-CRO with this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leskovac
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Mar 30, 2010 9:07:07 GMT -5
You talk only about Croatia, that has always been more of a tourists paradise. And still much richer and westernized than your so industrial Serbia. You wont mention Slovenia whose economy is on world level (example: gorenije) and it is the western state on the bolkans.
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Kralj Vatra
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Mar 30, 2010 9:08:39 GMT -5
You talk only about Croatia, that has always been more of a tourists paradise. And still much richer and westernized than your so industrial Serbia. You wont mention Slovenia whose economy is on world level (example: gorenije) and it is the western state on the bolkans. i will rape your argument very easily .... wait a sec pls...
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Kralj Vatra
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Mar 30, 2010 9:11:17 GMT -5
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Mar 30, 2010 9:14:02 GMT -5
[ Note to the reader: Notice how the article uses the wording "After WWII" instead of "RIGHT AFTER YUGOSLAVIA's BIRTH"Uou! What a knowlegde! And of which state was Croatia part pre WWII? 29 October 1918 - 1941 Kingdom of Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes, colloquially known as Kingdom of Yugoslavia. If the economic prosperity of Croatia was due to your beloved Serbia, then Serbia had the above mentioned years to "modernize" Croatia and it still waited well after the war.
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Mar 30, 2010 9:16:36 GMT -5
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ioan
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Post by ioan on Mar 30, 2010 9:17:53 GMT -5
i will rape your argument very easily .... wait a sec pls... so my argument is raped because the Slovenians opened 2 plants in Serbia to exploit the cheap labour. I see. Very clever... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOT.
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Kralj Vatra
Amicus
Warning: Sometimes uses foul language & insults!!!
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Posts: 9,814
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Post by Kralj Vatra on Mar 30, 2010 9:17:55 GMT -5
[ Note to the reader: Notice how the article uses the wording "After WWII" instead of "RIGHT AFTER YUGOSLAVIA's BIRTH"Uou! What a knowlegde! And of which state was Croatia part pre WWII? 29 October 1918 - 1941 Kingdom of Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes, colloquially known as Kingdom of Yugoslavia. If the economic prosperity of Croatia was due to your beloved Serbia, then Serbia had the above mentioned years to "modernize" Croatia and it still waited well after the war. stop ridiculing yourself.
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