tyson
Amicus
Posts: 1,256
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Post by tyson on Apr 7, 2010 7:12:55 GMT -5
www.hrsvijet.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3234:zadar-osnovana-qhrvatska-pravoslavnaq-crkva&catid=40:duhovnost&Itemid=146ZADAR: Osnovana "hrvatska pravoslavna" crkva .Petak, 12 Ožujak 2010 17:56 Zadranin Ivo Matanoviæ ranije je izjavio da u "Hrvatskoj živi veliki broj pravoslavaca koji ne žele da se poistovjeæuju sa Srbima, zbog èega žele osnovati autokefalnu pravoslavnu crkvu u Hrvatskoj".ZADAR - U Zadru je danas osnovana hrvatska pravoslavna crkva za, kako piše agencija Srna "hrvatske pravoslavce koji ne žele da se poistovjeæuju sa Srbima“. Jedan od incijatora osnivanja nove crkve, izvjesni iguman Jelisej izrazio je nadu da æe hrvatska država i cjelokupna javnost obnavljanje "hrvatske pravoslavne crkve" doživjeti kao "duhovnu potrebu dijela svojih žitelja i priznati je kao primarnu i glavnu pravoslavnu crkvu u Hrvatskoj". U Hrvatskoj je, prema posljednjem popisu stanovništva, oko 15. 000 hrvatskih pravoslavaca, istièu pokretaèi tog projekta. Zadranin Ivo Matanoviæ ranije je izjavio da u "Hrvatskoj živi veliki broj pravoslavaca koji ne žele da se poistovjeæuju sa Srbima, zbog èega žele osnovati autokefalnu pravoslavnu crkvu u Hrvatskoj". Prethodno su, prije nekoliko mjeseci, osnovali tzv. hrvatsku pravoslavnu zajednicu, s ciljem da u nju ukljuèe što više Hrvata i Hrvatica, koje su u proglasu pozvali da "svojim razumom procijene nasušnu potrebu za postojanjem takve organizacije", podsjeæajuæi na "bratske kršæanske narode koji su živjeli u Nezavisnoj Državi Hrvatskoj". Osnivaèi su se pozvali i na podatke Ureda za prosvjetu Zadarske županije prema kojima od gotovo 15 tisuæa uèenika osnovnih škola na podruèju županije sate pravoslavnog vjeronauka pohaðaju samo 64. Od tri tisuæe Zadrana srpske nacionalnosti nijedno dijete ne pohaða pravoslavni vjeronauk, što su pokretaèi te incijative protumaèili kao njihovu potrebu da im se ponudi alternativa u vidu "hrvatske pravoslavne crkve"./bitno
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MiG
Amicus
Republika
Posts: 4,793
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Post by MiG on Apr 7, 2010 15:15:35 GMT -5
Well, that's something I'm actually not completely surprised to see.
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tyson
Amicus
Posts: 1,256
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Post by tyson on Apr 8, 2010 6:21:43 GMT -5
and its about time!!!
the serbian orthodox church and a significant number of serbs, want to make it a crime for croatians to establish their own orthodox church within croatia. every time someone tries to do something to establish one, or even talk about it, serbs and the SOC always want to cry murder about it. they always bring up how a croatian orthodox church was established during NDH, which banned the functioning of the SOC on NDH territory, and made the later church the only operational orthodox church. then they also mentioned the famous "assimilate a third, banish a third & kill a third" remark that pavelic supposedly said, and mention the completely overinflated figure of 600 thousand serbs killed during NDH.
what serbs forget to mention, but what they know 100%, is that the republic of croatia is a democracy, with the right of people to worship their own faith without discrimination.
croatia is a democratic state with democratic values, which does not ban religions from registering their religious societies, and building their places of worship. this is something serbia does to the macedonian & montenegrin orthodox churches who are being banned from building their places of worship for their ethnic communities in serbia.
the croatian orthodox community, which does exist, deserves the right to establish their own croatian orthodox church, and not be imposed on having only the option of going to a serbian orthodox church to profess their faith.
whether serbs like this or not, this is our fundamental right, and it will not be hindered by attempts to throw a monkey wrench in its establishment, because of some historical connection serbs have attempted to make with the NDH's orthodox church.
with serbs, everything croatian is fascist to them. even they complain about our coat of arms, saying its fascist. i guess to them , croats are not allowed to be recognised as a nation, because, the NDH was set up by croats, so that makes to them being a croat is fascist, so i guess we must change our name to something else, because it is linked to NDH, or we are not allowed to breathe air because we are croats or sumthing.
man this upsets me with the arrogance of serbs.
i think one other thing why the serbian orthodox church is so vocal about being against its creation, is that they feel they might lose SOC followers, to the new church, since there would be an alternative. this is nonsense though. serbs are proud of their SOC, and they're not going to change churches. besides actual ethnic croats of orthodox faith, the only people that will possibly go over to the new church will be those of mixed marriage, and non-ethnic serb orthodox comunities, like macedonians,montenegrins, romanians, bulgarians, roma and others. they should be able to be given the choice of which one they want to go to.
the 1st new church of the HPC, is going to be built in zadar, to serve the croat orthodox community in and around that region.
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CiKoLa
Amicus
Gotovina Heroj!
Posts: 3,728
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Post by CiKoLa on Apr 8, 2010 6:30:13 GMT -5
i support this also. Neka!
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Post by Caslav Klonimirovic on Apr 8, 2010 7:24:43 GMT -5
Well this would be all good if it actually was the way Tyson describes it. Another thing I think is that Catholicism as a Christian denomination is in really big trouble so this could also present an alternative to disenchanted Catholics and even be a bridge in Serb-Croat relations. However it's not really at all done in the spirit Tyson has described. I mean I don't know if this is the actual website of this organisation www.hrvatskipravoslavci.com but it basically reads as a joke and completely espouses the views of the NDH... I mean there is even a map there of Bosnia and Croatia joined as one country. I mean this is a complete joke if that's what they are actually about.
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tyson
Amicus
Posts: 1,256
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Post by tyson on Apr 8, 2010 8:03:51 GMT -5
well i would assume that the map of croatia and bosnia joined, symbolises the homeland of the croatian people, and the croatian orthodox church representing croat orthodox faithful from across this land. i know for a fact that there are croats in BiH who claim to be orthodox, and identify as ethnic croats. one of our family friends know a croat family in bosnia that are orthodox
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Post by radovic on Apr 8, 2010 11:52:56 GMT -5
the serbian orthodox church and a significant number of serbs, want to make it a crime for croatians to establish their own orthodox church within croatia. every time someone tries to do something to establish one, or even talk about it, serbs and the SOC always want to cry murder about it. Because everytime someone tries to do this it is nearly always a case of the far-right trying to use it for propaganda purposes. That`s what the NDH was. A group trying to seize SOC property, as was the case in 1996. This current case is a case of far-right propaganda more then it is any legitimate movement. Go on the churches website and read it. It is so Orthodox that it sites outright lies as shonic has shown in an earlier post. Furthermore the people behind the gorup, ignoring possible propaganda purposes, is lead by shady character. The main person they paraded aorund as a `priest`was a criminal and a defrocked priest (he was not only defrocked from the Serbian church, but also from the uncanonical Montenegrin church for theft of donations). And what Croats intentionally ignore and know 100% is that church hierarchies exist and doing something like tihs does not make a church legitimate. If a Serb went to Serbia and talked of forming a ``Serbian Catholic Church`` the Croats would be saying the same thing Serbs are of this church. Just declaring a church ``Croat Orthodox`` means nothing. It has no legitimacy. I`m pretty sure if some in Croatia was forming their own Catholic Church, the Croatian state and people would not allow it. But some how it`s ok when someone tries to do it to an Orthodox Church, specifically a Serbian church. LOL. That`s because Serbia recognizes only one authority for religous groups that have established international hierarchies. Serbia only recognized the Roman Catholic Church (and because of Vatican support the Greek Catholic Church), hence Serbia law would forbid someone from forming a ``Serbian Castholic Church,`` It`s why Serbia recognizes one Islamic hierarchy in Serbia (Islamska Zajednica Srbije). It`s why Serbia recognizes only one Orthodox Church in line with the organizations rule (and why other churches -- Russian and Romanian operate on its territory because of Church agreements). As for the Montenegrin Church and FYROM churches, they are not cananonical. They are not legitimate in the international hierarchy of the Orthodox church. Your whole argument seems to be, oh their might be some 15,000 orthodox Croats (the claim made by the chirch as the number of Orthodox Croats, althought it earlier absurdly vclaimed 70% of the Orthodox in Croatia) so the church should be formed. If these Macedonian, Montenegrin, Romanians, Bulgarians, Roma in Croatia are part of this church then you are contradcting yourself. Shouldn`t they have their own church. Why should they be forced or encouraged to go to a Croat chuirch, as you imply. Especially since the first two do not support this self-declared HPC. And the latter have legitimate churches, which would never support the HPC (the latter two by association are supportive of the Serbian churches stance, and would technically following Church rules have the right to establish churches in Croatia).
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Post by radovic on Apr 8, 2010 12:33:14 GMT -5
Also. The man behind this group, Ivo Matanovic, has already indicated that he is pro-Ustasha and subscribes to that ideology. www.blogihrvati.com/jml/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1317&Itemid=155„Moje hrvatsko podrijetlo i pripadnost ustaškom pokretu, hrvatskom nacionalizmu i hrvatskom radikalizmu poznato je javnosti, jer sam ih već u nekoliko navrata opetovao u javnim glasilima, s naglaskom da se ne stidim svoje prošlosti. Naprotiv ponosan sam na svoju prošlost a i na moju volontersku djelatnost, kojom se trenutno bavim.“ (Ivo Matanović 27.11.2008.) ----- My Croatian origin and belonging to the Ustasha movement, Croatian, Croatian nationalism and radicalism is known to the public, because I have already several times repeated in the media, stressing that is not ashamed of his past. On the contrary, I am proud of my past and my volunteer activities, which currently I do. Basically the man behind this is openly Ustasha and proud of it. He producly says it on his site.
And yet people are claiming this group has nothing to do with Ustasha or that ideology.
Not only that but the initiator of the gorup himself isnt Orthodox, but is Catholic.
If this is a legitimate group shouldnt it not be formed by actual ORthodox Croats, not by a Catholic Ustasha supporter and a defrocked criminal priest from Montenegro.
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